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Questions About Effie

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Sian25

Sian25

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I think of new questions most days but don't want to keep opening new threads all the time so I thought id start a new thread that I can update each time I think of something. I've never owned sows before, so Effie is our first little princess. We adopted her to live with Milan (neutered boar) 3 weeks ago.

I was wondering how I would know when Effie is in season. As we've had her for 3 weeks, I'm guessing that she's already had a season without us knowing. I have not noticed anything different and Milan has not tried to mount her (that we've seen). She's always been on the bossy side with Milan anyway so have not noticed any changes
 
Sian25 said:
I think of new questions most days but don't want to keep opening new threads all the time so I thought id start a new thread that I can update each time I think of something. I've never owned sows before, so Effie is our first little princess. We adopted her to live with Milan (neutered boar) 3 weeks ago.

I was wondering how I would know when Effie is in season. As we've had her for 3 weeks, I'm guessing that she's already had a season without us knowing. I have not noticed anything different and Milan has not tried to mount her (that we've seen). She's always been on the bossy side with Milan anyway so have not noticed any changes
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Some - especially younger sows - tend to have much stronger seasons, but there can be huge differences. Some sows can be real drama queens while others can go through piggy life without ever making any fuss about it. That doesn't mean that they are not bonded; spayed sows for instance never come into season, but can still live happily with boars. The few that I have and have had certainly do.

To be honest, I don't notice the majority of seasons in my sows (I have nearly twenty sows and five neutered boars at the moment) because they are very much on the quiet side with just some pretty discrete mating at the end of it. On the other hand, very occasionally I live with high drama when a pheromone cloud triggers off all sows within reach of their season, so we have a day or sometimes several when there is the equivalent of 3 days of nonstop hippie parties going on in all cages at the same time...

With Effie being so dominant, I doubt that are you are going to see a lot unless she has a very strong season at some point. Milan obviously knows better than to try it on with her. She may mellow somewhat over time as she relaxes into her new life.

Generally once there are plenty of pheromones floating around, boars start trying to sniff the sows' bums to find out their status; that is usually the first sign of an impending season. Then there can be more rumbling. Sows coming into season can be more emotional and vocal in telling a boar off (combined with sticking to him rather than getting away from him while whey are whining away). When in the grip of strong season, a dominant sow may well chase the boar and mount him, or at least try to unless there are other girls around.
 
Wiebke said:
Some - especially younger sows - tend to have much stronger seasons, but there can be huge differences. Some sows can be real drama queens while others can go through piggy life without ever making any fuss about it. That doesn't mean that they are not bonded; spayed sows for instance never come into season, but can still live happily with boars. The few that I have and have had certainly do.

To be honest, I don't notice the majority of seasons of my sows (I have nearly twenty and five neutered boars) because they are very much on the quiet side with just some pretty discrete mating at the end of it. On the other hand, very occasionally I live with high drama when a pheromone cloud triggers off all sows within reach of their season, so we have a day or sometimes several when there is the equivalent of 3 days of nonstop hippie parties going on in all cages at the same time...

With Effie being so dominant, I doubt that are you are going to see a lot unless she has a very strong season at some point. Milan obviously knows better than to try it on with her. She may mellow somewhat over time as she relaxes into her new life.

Generally once there are plenty of pheromones floating around, boars start trying to sniff the sows' bums to find out their status; that is usually the first sign of an impending season. Then there can be more rumbling. Sows coming into season can be more emotional and vocal in telling a boar off (combined with sticking to him rather than getting away from him); when in the grip of strong season, a dominant sow may well chase the boar and mount him, or at least try to unless there are other girls around.
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Thank you! Such a good description of what to look out for! I go away in September and my nan and grandad are minding the pigs. I wanted to see effies season mainly so that I could explain to my nan and grandad exactly what is normal. As I've never seen a sow in season, I don't have a clue what to expect so unsure whether it would make my nan and grandad worry that something wasn't right
 
We have a very laid back and very early neutered boar whom I have never even seen attempt to mount the ladies (sorry Eddi).
The only way I would know if either of the girls are in season is because of how they react towards each other!
To be fair there is usually a bit more nose to bum contact during that time, but I certainly don't notice it on a regular basis (actually only once since they arrived 3 months ago!).
 
Thanks all. I'll keep my eyes peeled haha!

During lap time, Effie seems to wee non-stop. Honestly sometimes she will wee every 5-10 mins. They do have their evening veg at lap time so maybe that's something to do with it? But then again, Milan doesn't wee that often! Or could it be nerves? As she's still very nervous. She's weed on puppy pads and it's not discoloured or anything abnormal and she seems to be drinking an average amount of water
 
Sian25 said:
Thanks all. I'll keep my eyes peeled haha!

During lap time, Effie seems to wee non-stop. Honestly sometimes she will wee every 5-10 mins. They do have their evening veg at lap time so maybe that's something to do with it? But then again, Milan doesn't wee that often! Or could it be nerves? As she's still very nervous. She's weed on puppy pads and it's not discoloured or anything abnormal and she seems to be drinking an average amount of water
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Some piggies are avid lap wee-ers! She may grow out of it and learn to let you know when she needs. Crunchie will start tugging on whatever is nearby, fleece, my clothes.. Then will quietly wheek until shes back in her cage for a wee. Fudge chatters her teeth and excessively licks me when she needs. Mallow.. Looks at me AS she starts weeing! Little monkey!
 
Adelle said:
Some piggies are avid lap wee-ers! She may grow out of it and learn to let you know when she needs. Crunchie will start tugging on whatever is nearby, fleece, my clothes.. Then will quietly wheek until shes back in her cage for a wee. Fudge chatters her teeth and excessively licks me when she needs. Mallow.. Looks at me AS she starts weeing! Little monkey!
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My bereaved Hugo wouldn't show signs of needing a wee but he very rarely weed on us, he must have held it in. Milan on the other hand, doesn't care less and sometimes is lying partially asleep on my lap and he wees without even standing up/ moving. Effie is the same as gives no warning but I was mainly concerned about how often she wees and whether it could be pointing to a health problem or just the fact that she's just eaten veggies or nervous. I'm unsure whether she wees the same amount in her cage
 
Sian25 said:
My bereaved Hugo wouldn't show signs of needing a wee but he very rarely weed on us, he must have held it in. Milan on the other hand, doesn't care less and sometimes is lying partially asleep on my lap and he wees without even standing up/ moving. Effie is the same as gives no warning but I was mainly concerned about how often she wees and whether it could be pointing to a health problem or just the fact that she's just eaten veggies or nervous. I'm unsure whether she wees the same amount in her cage
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It could be nerves, but she'd need to be pretty freaked for that, and if shes eating veggies from you at that time then i doubt thats the problem. Shes just a baby isnt she? She'll only have a little bladder x
 
Adelle said:
It could be nerves, but she'd need to be pretty freaked for that, and if shes eating veggies from you at that time then i doubt thats the problem. Shes just a baby isnt she? She'll only have a little bladder x
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The rescue said she's 1 year old
 
How much does she drink? Some piggies drink and wee a lot more and more often than others.

If she is developing stale smelling pees or bloody pees, please have her seen by a vet re. cystitis/UTI.
 
I'm worried that the pigs are not happy :( They still spend the a lot of the time at separate ends of the cage asleep in hidies. Effie still nips Milan quite a lot of the time if he tries to enter the hidey that she's in. They will popcorn together when they know food is coming and they will happily sit next to eachother to eat, without any arguments.
 
Mallow and poppet where like that after i had to seperate mallow (18 months) from my oldies as she was bullying one of them, where i then got poppet (12 weeks at the time) to live with mallow. Mallow is the type of pig that will happilly be dominated by a too pig (she was with crunchie) but couldnt be dominant herself without being a bully (to fudge). I tried pairing her with a neutered boar but neither would back down and things got heated. With poppet, she quickly established her dominance and for a time was bordering on bullying- but that all settled down. With poppet being a baby, shes maturing and so things can pick up between her and mallow sometimes, scuffles when both are in the same hidey, a gentle nip here and there when poppets in heat.. But they popcorn together too, eat together, play together.. The bickering flare ups dont seem to harm anyone, and for the most part they are happy. I found it did take a couple months for the worst of it to settle down. They are thick as thieves together but do clash sometimes. I think as long as they are still eating and drinking and plodding along then give them more time x
 
Adelle said:
Mallow and poppet where like that after i had to seperate mallow (18 months) from my oldies as she was bullying one of them, where i then got poppet (12 weeks at the time) to live with mallow. Mallow is the type of pig that will happilly be dominated by a too pig (she was with crunchie) but couldnt be dominant herself without being a bully (to fudge). I tried pairing her with a neutered boar but neither would back down and things got heated. With poppet, she quickly established her dominance and for a time was bordering on bullying- but that all settled down. With poppet being a baby, shes maturing and so things can pick up between her and mallow sometimes, scuffles when both are in the same hidey, a gentle nip here and there when poppets in heat.. But they popcorn together too, eat together, play together.. The bickering flare ups dont seem to harm anyone, and for the most part they are happy. I found it did take a couple months for the worst of it to settle down. They are thick as thieves together but do clash sometimes. I think as long as they are still eating and drinking and plodding along then give them more time x
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Thank you. What's the main things to look out for when the behaviour is bullying rather than dominance? It's quite difficult for me to get the whole picture as when I go in their room, Effie runs and hides although she is starting to understand 'treeeeeaaat' (which I've always said to my pigs at veggie time) and she will come out of hiding then for her veg. She also loves the sound of me getting the nuggets out and she wheeked today at nugget time (first time I've heard her wheek) bless her!
 

This is the type of behaviour they display now after a month. Is this normal? They were more hyped up as they know it's bedtime nugget allowance time and I was teasing them. The nips are closer to the end
 
Just bumping this up :)

The video is on the worst scale of how they are. Normally there are not that many nips involved
 
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I don't see any issues at all in that video. My guys will nip and have nose up's to tell the other one to go away. Perfectly normal.
 
They look happy to me especially little Effie. I think it was made worse by you 'teasing' them with food. They have no concept of this. All they know is that they want their food and they are not getting it. They are hungry and will obviously be trying to be the first one to the food so trying to keep the other away from the good stuff by noises and nipping.

Please try to focus on the positives and enjoy them. They and you are doing just fine ;) xx
 
Thank you! Put my mind at ease now! I only teased with the food as food time is the only time she will come out of the hidey while I'm in the room, any other time she runs and hides from me so wanted to get a video of how the are together now. I can see they have come a long way since the beginning but they still will never sleep together and probably never will
 
Personally i dont see any issues. I think because Effie and Milan have a different bond to Hugo and Milan did, with some displaying of dominance here and there, it is making you worried. With the popcorning, running to the pellet bowl.. They are happy pigs, and just displaying dominance/gently nudging because they are jumping about into each others space,theyre excited and their both wanting to make sure they get first dibs on pellets. Give them a bowl each in the same place each time, and they will learn that they go to seperate ones if it will make you more comfortable. They have plenty of space, both active and full of character- i honestly think they are quite an interactive pair and you dont have anything to worry about. They are actually very similar to poppet and mallow- and thats now theyve settled down.

I seperated mallow from my 2 elderly sows due to her bullying fudge. They had a different cage then which had a bridge- mallow would stand at the bottom waiting for fudge, where she wouldnt let her off the bridge. I woke up many of times during the night to fudge submissive squealing, stuck on a bridge because her arthritis meant she couldnt about turn or jump off it. If she dared pass by mallow, she used to run with her eyes shut- as mallow would launch at her, push her into a corner and hit her with her mouth. Fudge was never physically injured, but it affected her massively. The stress actually meant her failing heart was under more stress, resulting in more fluid in her lungs. I was able to reduce fudges diuretics once mallow was away from her. That was bullying, and i had no choice but to seperate.

Your piggies seem happy and bright to me, and no one seems massively affected by the other x
 
Adelle said:
Personally i dont see any issues. I think because Effie and Milan have a different bond to Hugo and Milan did, with some displaying of dominance here and there, it is making you worried. With the popcorning, running to the pellet bowl.. They are happy pigs, and just displaying dominance/gently nudging because they are jumping about into each others space,theyre excited and their both wanting to make sure they get first dibs on pellets. Give them a bowl each in the same place each time, and they will learn that they go to seperate ones if it will make you more comfortable. They have plenty of space, both active and full of character- i honestly think they are quite an interactive pair and you dont have anything to worry about. They are actually very similar to poppet and mallow- and thats now theyve settled down.

I seperated mallow from my 2 elderly sows due to her bullying fudge. They had a different cage then which had a bridge- mallow would stand at the bottom waiting for fudge, where she wouldnt let her off the bridge. I woke up many of times during the night to fudge submissive squealing, stuck on a bridge because her arthritis meant she couldnt about turn or jump off it. If she dared pass by mallow, she used to run with her eyes shut- as mallow would launch at her, push her into a corner and hit her with her mouth. Fudge was never physically injured, but it affected her massively. The stress actually meant her failing heart was under more stress, resulting in more fluid in her lungs. I was able to reduce fudges diuretics once mallow was away from her. That was bullying, and i had no choice but to seperate.

Your piggies seem happy and bright to me, and no one seems massively affected by the other x
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Thank you!

Aw poor fudge. Bless her! Hope she's happier now!
 
Sian25 said:
Thank you!

Aw poor fudge. Bless her! Hope she's happier now!
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She is! She even attempts a cheeky rumble at crunchie now and then (crunchie is and has always been top pig of 3 different cage mates, including my neutered boar bless him). She popcorns now too and wrecks her cage constantly- definately a happy girl now x
 
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