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Rapid loss of weight

Little Ones said:
Yeah I think they do but then I feel stupid doing a payment plan for £70 lol


They were done over a week ago, I’ve just posted the results :)
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Sorry I didn’t read the rest of the thread :doh: I’ve no experience with this but one thing you should avoid is veggies high in vitamin A, it is difficult for the liver to metabolise when it is stressed (ie high enzymes) so things like carrot.
 
G&C said:
Sorry I didn’t read the rest of the thread :doh: I’ve no experience with this but one thing you should avoid is veggies high in vitamin A, it is difficult for the liver to metabolise when it is stressed (ie high enzymes) so things like carrot.
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I didn’t know that, thank you! I’ve just had to quickly take some veggies out of the cage!
 
Little Ones said:
Finally got the results back after days of chasing it up. Turns out he has elevated liver enzymes. Since he has soft poos, the vet wants to send off some samples to check for parasites which is going to cost £70 on top of the £220 we paid before. If nothing comes back then she wants to do an ultrasound, will this require him having more anaesthetic? She said during the X-ray it was hard to see since there was a lot of feces in the way. I’m really anxious about the cost and I don’t want to fail him just because I can’t afford it. If anyone’s had any experience with elevated liver enzymes it’d be so helpful. Will an ultrasound even be worth it? Can you even treat this? Feeling a bit low about it all.
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BIG HUGS

I am sorry about the bad news. Sadly there is not much in the way of treatment for liver problems in guinea pigs at this stage.
You may want to stay off veg high in vitamin A, like carrots, spinach and lettuce: Guinea Lynx :: Nutrition Charts

Please step in with offering additional syringe feeding top-up support, whether that is by syringing or eating from a bowl if your boy is still doing that on his own. Complete Syringe Feeding Guide


If you have monetary concerns at any stage after having made an effort to have your piggy diagnosed, you are well within your rights do discuss whether any further expensive investatigations/medication is coming with a reasonable expectation of results.
I certainly do this with my own vets once we get into hundreds of pounds for any further investigations/treatments with comparatively little return. I am willing to pay (and have in some cases paid £1000-2000 in longer term treatment costs where long term prospects were good), but only if there is a positive expectation of any further treatment to heal or prolong quality of life for a good while. However, I do not have the resources of investing that kind of money for very little return in life expectancy and quality for every piggy of mine.
I did have this discussion with all of my regular vets fairly early on. They are fine with that and have adapted their treatment options accordingly.

Alternatively, discuss a payment plan if your vet is confident about any further investigestions and any longer term prospects.

It is a VERY tough and gutting time when you have to look at the hard facts and weigh up the pros and cons as to how far you want to pursue a more complex health issue and when you want to draw the line. Drawing the line and refusing to spend a fortune on a guinea pig where treatment options are limited doesn't make you a bad owner and you do not have to feel guilty about.
There is also a certain risk of putting your piggy through too much when you are afraid of letting it go or feel bad about having to make the decision to call it shots at some point - you will always have qualms about it. Walking the line is a tightrope act in which it is rather easy to fall down on either side of the rope.
It is one of the most difficult areas to work out your personal ethics. I hope that my own example can help you to address your issues with an open mind and to have an honest discussion about where you go from there with your vet. Any good vet will be prepared to give you the facts when asked to help you make an informed decision.
I have found that asking myself whether I can live with my decision in the long term of having found an acceptable balance between the amount/cost of treatment and providing quality of life in the longer term is my personal touchstone of working this out every time I am required to do so. But I have also not got any qualms about asking my vet how much time they think my piggy has got in their estimation and then take it from there.

I hope that this helps you.
 
Thanks @Bill & Ted for the mention. I'm afraid i cant really help @Little Ones. My benson has elevated liver enzymes. I was offered 2/3 options.
One was palliative care as he is nearly 7.
Two was to have a full blood screen more detailed than the one i had done. That would reveal why his enzymes were up.
Three a liver biopsy.

Like you, i had already spent 250 and it isnt just bensons liver. He has a bladder full of calcium and severe arthritis so it was an easy decision to not proceed further.
I wasnt given any dietry advice due to the liver enzymes but low calcium for his bladder. In fact i have been giving carrots to try to get high cals in!
I dont suppose it matters too much now for benson as the end is near.

Milk thistle is good to give. The vet told me it must contain sam E. He said dog and cat ones have this. I found it on viovet but as tablets that cant be broken so i didnt pursue that as it is expensive and i thought benson didnt have long.

So i got the actual herb from galens garden online. It is very spikey. Benson like it so that might be worth a go or ask vet about a liquid supplement.

Benson is still alive. He is skeletal at 600g but looks cheerful enough today.

Had he been younger, i would have gone for further testing i think. I cant believe how long he is hanging on at this low weight.

I do appreciate the financial cost though, especially as you need to weigh up the stress of tests and surgeries too.

I think most of bensons discomfort comes from his arthritis and i do believe they can go on quite a few weeks with liver failure - i heard of one pig that lasted 8 months and survived at a very low weight.

Sorry i dont know if that has helped at all. I am in the middle of all this with benson and i really dont know the answers myself.

Apols also for lack of apostrophes. Its my keyboard! I love apostrophes and it pains me to have to omit them:eek:

All the best
 
Wiebke said:
BIG HUGS

I am sorry about the bad news. Sadly there is not much in the way of treatment for liver problems in guinea pigs at this stage.
You may want to stay off veg high in vitamin A, like carrots, spinach and lettuce: Guinea Lynx :: Nutrition Charts

Please step in with offering additional syringe feeding top-up support, whether that is by syringing or eating from a bowl if your boy is still doing that on his own. Complete Syringe Feeding Guide


If you have monetary concerns at any stage after having made an effort to have your piggy diagnosed, you are well within your rights do discuss whether any further expensive investatigations/medication is coming with a reasonable expectation of results.
I certainly do this with my own vets once we get into hundreds of pounds for any further investigations/treatments with comparatively little return. I am willing to pay (and have in some cases paid £1000-2000 in longer term treatment costs where long term prospects were good), but only if there is a positive expectation of any further treatment to heal or prolong quality of life for a good while. However, I do not have the resources of investing that kind of money for very little return in life expectancy and quality for every piggy of mine.
I did have this discussion with all of my regular vets fairly early on. They are fine with that and have adapted their treatment options accordingly.

Alternatively, discuss a payment plan if your vet is confident about any further investigestions and any longer term prospects.

It is a VERY tough and gutting time when you have to look at the hard facts and weigh up the pros and cons as to how far you want to pursue a more complex health issue and when you want to draw the line. Drawing the line and refusing to spend a fortune on a guinea pig where treatment options are limited doesn't make you a bad owner and you do not have to feel guilty about.
There is also a certain risk of putting your piggy through too much when you are afraid of letting it go or feel bad about having to make the decision to call it shots at some point - you will always have qualms about it. Walking the line is a tightrope act in which it is rather easy to fall down on either side of the rope.
It is one of the most difficult areas to work out your personal ethics. I hope that my own example can help you to address your issues with an open mind and to have an honest discussion about where you go from there with your vet. Any good vet will be prepared to give you the facts when asked to help you make an informed decision.
I have found that asking myself whether I can live with my decision in the long term of having found an acceptable balance between the amount/cost of treatment and providing quality of life in the longer term is my personal touchstone of working this out every time I am required to do so. But I have also not got any qualms about asking my vet how much time they think my piggy has got in their estimation and then take it from there.

I hope that this helps you.
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Thank you so much. Everything you’ve said is extremely helpful and also reassuring too. Its definitely difficult knowing what to do in situations like this, and it’s comforting to hear your perspective - especially since you’re so experienced with this kind of thing. You really help all the people on this forum more than you know, and we would all be lost without you :)
 
tabelmabel said:
Thanks @Bill & Ted for the mention. I'm afraid i cant really help @Little Ones. My benson has elevated liver enzymes. I was offered 2/3 options.
One was palliative care as he is nearly 7.
Two was to have a full blood screen more detailed than the one i had done. That would reveal why his enzymes were up.
Three a liver biopsy.

Like you, i had already spent 250 and it isnt just bensons liver. He has a bladder full of calcium and severe arthritis so it was an easy decision to not proceed further.
I wasnt given any dietry advice due to the liver enzymes but low calcium for his bladder. In fact i have been giving carrots to try to get high cals in!
I dont suppose it matters too much now for benson as the end is near.

Milk thistle is good to give. The vet told me it must contain sam E. He said dog and cat ones have this. I found it on viovet but as tablets that cant be broken so i didnt pursue that as it is expensive and i thought benson didnt have long.

So i got the actual herb from galens garden online. It is very spikey. Benson like it so that might be worth a go or ask vet about a liquid supplement.

Benson is still alive. He is skeletal at 600g but looks cheerful enough today.

Had he been younger, i would have gone for further testing i think. I cant believe how long he is hanging on at this low weight.

I do appreciate the financial cost though, especially as you need to weigh up the stress of tests and surgeries too.

I think most of bensons discomfort comes from his arthritis and i do believe they can go on quite a few weeks with liver failure - i heard of one pig that lasted 8 months and survived at a very low weight.

Sorry i dont know if that has helped at all. I am in the middle of all this with benson and i really dont know the answers myself.

Apols also for lack of apostrophes. Its my keyboard! I love apostrophes and it pains me to have to omit them:eek:

All the best
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Thank you for your advice and I’m so sorry about Benson. He’s definitely a trooper! I’ll look into the milk thistle for sure. Thanks again :)
 
Just rang the vet again and discussed the poo samples and ultrasound. She thinks doing the samples would be beneficial, more so than the ultrasound, as if it’s parasites then it’s treatable however if it’s not parasites then it’s more likely liver disease to which she said that doing the ultrasound probably won’t help anything as it’ll most likely be something untreatable. She then also said she thinks that if it is parasites, then it’ll most likely be a combination or that and a liver problem anyway because it’s a high elevation of the liver enzymes rather than parasites alone. She said she was surprised by how well his red and white blood cells were. I’m going to go ahead with the samples then treat the parasites accordingly if they’re present and hope that it isn’t a combination of that and liver problems. However, if it shows no parasites then I’m not going to proceed with further testing
 
Little Ones said:
Just rang the vet again and discussed the poo samples and ultrasound. She thinks doing the samples would be beneficial, more so than the ultrasound, as if it’s parasites then it’s treatable however if it’s not parasites then it’s more likely liver disease to which she said that doing the ultrasound probably won’t help anything as it’ll most likely be something untreatable. She then also said she thinks that if it is parasites, then it’ll most likely be a combination or that and a liver problem anyway because it’s a high elevation of the liver enzymes rather than parasites alone. She said she was surprised by how well his red and white blood cells were. I’m going to go ahead with the samples then treat the parasites accordingly if they’re present and hope that it isn’t a combination of that and liver problems. However, if it shows no parasites then I’m not going to proceed with further testing
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Sounds like a difficult but very sensible decision you have made. Sometimes we just have to be there for our piggies until they decide enough is enough. Sending healing vibes to Benson and hope they find something treatable
 
Lady Kelly said:
Sounds like a difficult but very sensible decision you have made. Sometimes we just have to be there for our piggies until they decide enough is enough. Sending healing vibes to Benson and hope they find something treatable
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Thank you, all we can do is try our best for our piggies!
 
Handed in the poo samples I’ve been collecting over the past 4 days. Whilst I don’t think it will be parasites but rather liver disease, it was the right thing to do. It’s the last step before we can rule out any possibility of a recovery. At the end of the day, it’s about whether you can live with yourself by the end of it and so even if the vet didn’t really think parasites either, I would never have forgiven myself if I didn’t at least confirm that.
I’ve been reading up on bereavement for the cage mate in case of a sudden passing and that sets me off like a baby - especially the part where they lick the deceased pigs eyes :( very sad. I’ve also been looking at near by rescues who offer boar dating too. I just want to be prepared for the worst.
I’ve gone and purchased tons of new things for the cage too - cage liners, water bottle, bowls, hideys, litter trays for the hay. I just thought I’d completely spruce up the cage with a new layout and brand new things for him. Whilst it could be possible that he lives another 6 months or more, I want to make them the best of his life!
I don’t really know the life expectancy of a guinea pig diagnosed with a serious liver problem. Because he weighs so little and always seems to be starving, I’ve been feeding him more vegetables - sometimes everyday. I feel like this is the wrong thing to do perhaps? I don’t want to make him feel any worse so if anyone has any advice there please let me know. I just don’t know how else to feed him, he’s constantly squeaking for food and having way more pellets than normal too. He just seems to eat everything really quickly. He always has a supply of hay to eat but I feel like it may not be enough. But yeah, any advice on how much to feed & what would be helpful.
Just had him weighed and he’s gone from being 785 when the vets weighed him to 901! I have been weighing him in intervals of a few days but I felt like this was significant enough to post. So happy that he’s put on weight!
 
Thats brilliant you have managed to get weight on - and a good amount too!
My benson isnt doing as well, down at 600g but holding steady. Because i think every day might be his last, I'm just letting him eat what he can. He stopped eating hay about a week ago but will eat fresh grass and veg. He was at the vet yesterday and his teeth are fine, he has got some fibreplex to encourage him.

Little Ones said:
I don’t really know the life expectancy of a guinea pig diagnosed with a serious liver problem
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My vet said ' weeks' but didnt specify how many weeks, benson has gone down very fast. The deterioration over april was huge. But he is still here.

Hopefully you will get many more weeks
 
tabelmabel said:
Thats brilliant you have managed to get weight on - and a good amount too!
My benson isnt doing as well, down at 600g but holding steady. Because i think every day might be his last, I'm just letting him eat what he can. He stopped eating hay about a week ago but will eat fresh grass and veg. He was at the vet yesterday and his teeth are fine, he has got some fibreplex to encourage him.


My vet said ' weeks' but didnt specify how many weeks, benson has gone down very fast. The deterioration over april was huge. But he is still here.

Hopefully you will get many more weeks
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I’m surprised by how much he’s gained, but I’ve been feeding him tons. I can’t believe Benson is still hanging on, he’s a trooper for sure. Whilst I bet each day with him is hard, each one is a blessing too. You’re doing your absolute best for him :)
How much did he weigh when your vet told you that? If weight even really plays any part in it, I’m not sure if it’s the low weight that eventually kills them or just the liver itself. I’m surprised by how well my Hoo is doing, constantly active to the point sometimes it scares me a little because he might break himself. I’ve been worrying about a holiday I have booked in 3 months time, about if he’ll still be alive by then & if so I’m going to be worried sick about him. I’m trying to prepare myself for when it does go down hill but I don’t think it’s really possible to.
 
Benson was over 900g when i first saw the vet 22nd march this year. By 9th april, he was down to 806g, he then had another big 100g loss mid april taking him to 700g. Then he slipped right down to 600g over the following weeks. He has got other issues though - main one being his bladder which is hard and painful, packed with calcium and then with his arthritis, the poor lad cant walk well at all. He is putting in a brave effort and still self feeding but he is spending extended time periods quietly resting. I really think any day now.
Your boy sounds in much better condition than benson, hopefully you will have months.

Yes, every day with benson is a blessing though very time consuming! He is definitely getting plenty of love and attention in his final days !
 
tabelmabel said:
Benson was over 900g when i first saw the vet 22nd march this year. By 9th april, he was down to 806g, he then had another big 100g loss mid april taking him to 700g. Then he slipped right down to 600g over the following weeks. He has got other issues though - main one being his bladder which is hard and painful, packed with calcium and then with his arthritis, the poor lad cant walk well at all. He is putting in a brave effort and still self feeding but he is spending extended time periods quietly resting. I really think any day now.
Your boy sounds in much better condition than benson, hopefully you will have months.

Yes, every day with benson is a blessing though very time consuming! He is definitely getting plenty of love and attention in his final days !
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Gosh, he really did lose weight really quickly. Poor thing, he’s going through so much. I know you can’t really compare yours to mine due to bensons other issues but knowing how quickly his weight could deteriorate at least allows me to mentally prepare in some way for it, the inevitable will happen. I hope Benson passes easily, that’s all we can ask for in the end
 
Little Ones said:
I hope Benson passes easily, that’s all we can ask for in the end
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Yes i am hoping to step in at just the right moment and get the vet to euthanase him. I dont think death will come quickly at home as his heart is healthy so i would think he will stop eating and go into gut stasis - i wont let him get to that stage though. Although he doesnt seem to be eating hay, he is still very enthusiastic on the veg. He is on fibreplex now which has bulked up his poo and he cant pass it himself unfortunately.
His weight was up to 625 today but i think he was eating some pellets before he got on the scales! I cant believe how long he seems to be holding out. He was quiet yesterday, but seems perkier today
 
tabelmabel said:
Yes i am hoping to step in at just the right moment and get the vet to euthanase him. I dont think death will come quickly at home as his heart is healthy so i would think he will stop eating and go into gut stasis - i wont let him get to that stage though. Although he doesnt seem to be eating hay, he is still very enthusiastic on the veg. He is on fibreplex now which has bulked up his poo and he cant pass it himself unfortunately.
His weight was up to 625 today but i think he was eating some pellets before he got on the scales! I cant believe how long he seems to be holding out. He was quiet yesterday, but seems perkier today
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It must be so difficult for you, looking after him but also worrying about when it’s the right time. The poo situation sounds like a nasty job for you, you’re such a good owner. A lot of people would’ve probably given up by now.
 
Lol yes the poo sitch isnt good but its never been as bad and as smelly as the first time. I think i have become pretty efficient at it and it really doesnt take too long. Fortunately, i am at home all the time. I think i would struggle to keep benson ticking over if i needed to go out all day, i have a good routine going to look after his bum, feet, weigh, meds and cage change. It is time consuming but we have had the little fellow almost 7 years and hes looked after himself very well until lately.
I think you're right saying a lot of people would have given up by now - my husband being one such person! But i really know benson as an individual character and i suppose thats what I'm trying to preserve for a little longer, whilst it is still there.
 
tabelmabel said:
Lol yes the poo sitch isnt good but its never been as bad and as smelly as the first time. I think i have become pretty efficient at it and it really doesnt take too long. Fortunately, i am at home all the time. I think i would struggle to keep benson ticking over if i needed to go out all day, i have a good routine going to look after his bum, feet, weigh, meds and cage change. It is time consuming but we have had the little fellow almost 7 years and hes looked after himself very well until lately.
I think you're right saying a lot of people would have given up by now - my husband being one such person! But i really know benson as an individual character and i suppose thats what I'm trying to preserve for a little longer, whilst it is still there.
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Yes I imagine the situation would be very different if you had to leave for work everyday, having round the clock care for him will be doing him a world of good. I definitely understand where people with the mentality like your husband are coming from, but I think if I were in your place, the guilt that would come from giving up would be too great, besides when you take an animal into your home, you are also making them a part of your family
 
Update: got the call back from the vets about the poo samples. It’s not parasites which ultimately means it’s something not so nice to do with his liver, like liver disease. As I’ve mentioned before the vet suggested an ultrasound to confirm anything however because his liver enzymes are so elevated, it’s pointing to something like liver disease and whatever we do find out probably won’t be treatable so I’m not going to go ahead with further testing but rather just give him the best time that he’s got left. It was only a voicemail I was left so I’m going to call later and ask how long the vet thinks hes got, if she can even say.
 
Oh dear @Little Ones i am sorry its not the news you wanted. If its any consolation, benson is still here! And if he didnt have the arthritis, i think he would be pretty good. Its the hobbling that is his main problem. Apart from that he is doing ok even though he is so skinny now. Thinking of you and will check back for updates
 
tabelmabel said:
Oh dear @Little Ones i am sorry its not the news you wanted. If its any consolation, benson is still here! And if he didnt have the arthritis, i think he would be pretty good. Its the hobbling that is his main problem. Apart from that he is doing ok even though he is so skinny now. Thinking of you and will check back for updates
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It’s unfortunate but it was expected, he went up from 901 to 910, but just weighed him and he’s gone down again to 887. It’s comforting the know Benson is still trooping on too. Just off the phone with the vet, she recommended milk thistle tablets, she said half in the morning and half in the evening. She seemed to think they could be broken up and given but I’m not sure how I would even get him to eat a capsule? Perhaps crush it, add water and syringe it? Not sure, you were under the impression that it wouldn’t be possible with the tablet & the plant would be better. Definitely going to go ahead and get either the tablets or the plant, just not sure which would be more cost effective and which is going to work better.
Also just to edit, how much of the herb do you give Benson per day? What size bag would you recommend I buy?
 
The vet i used said the tablets could be crushed, even though the instructions said not to. He recommended sam E lyn. It has to have sam E in apparently. You can get them on viovet but they are expensive. I think almost £40 on viovet. As i thought benson had only days to live, i got the actual herb. A very small pack.

Little did i know benson would still be here a month on! Benson did like the milk thistle herb at first but then he stopped eating hay and milk thistle altogether.

Not wanting to prolong things, i just left him on veg only and he is looking better than ever today! I cant believe how he keeps going. He is only 615g under all that fuzz
 
Ps it was only when i saw the vet again last mon, he said it was ok to crush the tablets. At the time i bought the herb, i didnt realise the tablets could be crushed.
 
tabelmabel said:
The vet i used said the tablets could be crushed, even though the instructions said not to. He recommended sam E lyn. It has to have sam E in apparently. You can get them on viovet but they are expensive. I think almost £40 on viovet. As i thought benson had only days to live, i got the actual herb. A very small pack.

Little did i know benson would still be here a month on! Benson did like the milk thistle herb at first but then he stopped eating hay and milk thistle altogether.

Not wanting to prolong things, i just left him on veg only and he is looking better than ever today! I cant believe how he keeps going. He is only 615g under all that fuzz
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Yeah my vet quoted £34 for 3 months worth, but I don’t know if my pig would prefer eating the herb instead. If I get the herb then if it gets to a point where he won’t eat that along with hay, like Benson, then I think at that point i wouldn’t want to give him the liver support - tablet form or not. It seems to me that that would be just prolonging the inevitable rather than helping him get better, even if it would only be to a small extent which is what the liver support is for. If that makes any sense.
Bless him, poor Benson. I keep checking your posts on him, I’m always a little surprised he’s still going. Mine weighs a lot more than Benson however he’s not so fuzzy so you can see his spine and feel his rib cage, I feel like I have to be so delicate with him.
Thanks for linking the tablets, I’ll take a look. I just don’t know what to do for the best regarding the herb or the tablet. It’s so hard to know. I feel like he’d much prefer eating the herb than getting syringe fed the tablets. I think if he struggled I’d be too afraid I’d hurt him.
 
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