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Really worried advice please

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Salt n Peppers mum

Salt n Peppers mum

Adult Guinea Pig
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I have 2 boars just over a year old. When I did my daily clean of their fleece bedding tonight I notice a little bit of blood.

I think it was from the feces rather than the wee (if you know what i mean) as it was red, rather than pink and diluted.
I think its from my Boar Pepper - but I supose I cant be 100 per cent sure.
Its just that pepper wheeked abit the other week and it was when he did a poo. Although he hasnt done it this week. Out of my 2 boys, from day one Pepper drinks the water, I have never seen Salt, (my other boar) drink water yet! But now I'm really concious of it. And think he may be drinking more?

My fleece is dark so I have only noticed it tonight in 2 areas where there is white fleece.
He is busy eating and doing his normal stuff.
I am dreading ringing the vets tomorrow and looked on here for savy vets so have to get the kids to school and ring vets find it, in a different town etc and I have to pick my daughter up from Nursery at 11:30am, and I'm working tomorrow evening. Then I've had my 6 year old crying her eyes out over him and doesnt want to go to school. I feel a bit down......
My question was also should I take both Piggies to the vets in the same carrier so he can check them both out? Or seperate carriers. I was worrying about seperating them and them having squabbles when put back together? Dominance etc?

Hope some-one can put my mind a rest
Thanks
 
I would use the same carrier as they can comfort one another on the journey.

As for everything else I have no advice I'll leave it to the experts :). But I do hope Peppers gets better soon! Sending healing vibes your way, I hope you feel better too xx.
 
I'd be tempted to take them together as they may feel a little funny being out of their own environment and having each other will be of comfort (although I'm no expert on boars though!)

I hope it turns out to be nothing serious and your boys are okay xx
 
I usually take my piggies cage companion along to the vets for both to be checked (just to be on the safe side). have you had a look at the piggies bum in case there is any debris lodged up there. Bits of hay and straw could cause a bleed. Best to get the piggie checked by a vet for peace of mind though. Blood in the urine could be caused by a UTI or a bladder stone. One of my piggies has a bladder stone and bleeds occasionaly and shows discomfort upon urinating. Best of luck. Please let us know how you get on. It may just be an infection that can be cleared up with antibiotics..
 
I don't know if it's usual, but the vet I've used opens the phone lines at 8am, though the first appointment isn't until nine. You might perhaps be able to make the appointment before you do the school run, which might make the timing a bit easier. Explain your time constraints to the receptionist and hope they can make it as easy as possible. Is there anyone who can take the children to school or collect your daughter from nursery at short notice?

Be very positive with your 6 year-old about taking the pigs to the doctor's to be made better, and hope that gets her off to school without too much fuss.

Take the boys in the same carrier - I wouldn't have thought a brief separation would cause dominance problems, but they'll be less stressed if they're together.

I'm afraid I can't help with the medical problem - but try not to panic about the logistics. Horrible days like this happen sometimes when you have several human and furry dependants and you just have to get through it as best you can.

Good luck with your manic day, and hope your boars are OK.
 
It is probably bleeding from the urinary tract, caused by cystitis, which itself could be caused by infection or a bladder stone. An xray is needed to show whether or not a stone is present. Please note, a general anaesthetic is NOT necessary for that procedure.
 
Sunshine said:
I don't know if it's usual, but the vet I've used opens the phone lines at 8am, though the first appointment isn't until nine. You might perhaps be able to make the appointment before you do the school run, which might make the timing a bit easier. Explain your time constraints to the receptionist and hope they can make it as easy as possible. Is there anyone who can take the children to school or collect your daughter from nursery at short notice?

Be very positive with your 6 year-old about taking the pigs to the doctor's to be made better, and hope that gets her off to school without too much fuss.

Take the boys in the same carrier - I wouldn't have thought a brief separation would cause dominance problems, but they'll be less stressed if they're together.

I'm afraid I can't help with the medical problem - but try not to panic about the logistics. Horrible days like this happen sometimes when you have several human and furry dependants and you just have to get through it as best you can.

Good luck with your manic day, and hope your boars are OK.
Click to expand...

Thank you,

Just waiting for vets to open. Someone listed a vet in Rotherham, Springfield at Wickersley? Should I ask if there is a Rodentologists working there when I ring up?

Up early checking bedding. Covered most of area in cream coloured fleece.
I've read so much on it last night I think I'll be telling vet what to do zzz

One part had a little spot blood almost a blob of 'jelly like' spot, and pink around urine? Keep looking at Peppers size. I dont know if he's lost weigh recently, but Salt looks bigger than him now? Should have been more organised and weighed them regularly.
Wouldnt be taking my youngest to Nursery if Vet appointment coinsides with my 11:30 pick up. My parents are in Egypt at minute so I've no-one else to do the school runs for me.
x Paula
 
You should start weighing them regularly means you always know if they have lost or gained weight. :)

I weighed mine weekly, but you can do it fortnightly and if ill daily! :)
 
Hi Paula, I am sorry one of your boys is having this problem. I'm also inclined to think it's bladder-related - it is not impossible for the bleeding to be from the anus but many pigs pee where they poop, so it's easy for bloody urine to sit on the poops and give you a fright!

Rodentologists tend to work independently - there are some that work "alongside" vets, some vets referring pigs to them etc. but you're unlikely to find a veterinary surgeon who is also a qualified rodentologist as yet. Worth asking, but don't be surprised if none of them know what a rodentologist is. rolleyes

Don't beat yourself up about not weighing them regularly, it can take a while for it to become habit but once you're used to it, it's easy to remember. :)
 
Back from vets
2 stressed little piggies! The vet wrote "Not used to being handled" Pepper is very skittish, but to be honest we sit on the floor with them and they jump on our knee and when I transfer them anywhere i.e In the summer time to their outside run, I use a fleece bag so i dont go in with my hands as such to pick them up. I cut their nails (using fleece bag) but pepper has started to nip me when I do that too.

Anyway. Pepper's been put on Baytril twice a day 0.5ml. The vet said to mix with equal amount of Ribena to sweeten the taste? He weighes 1.34kg. Salt Weighes 1.44kg, so 100g difference? 4 ounces? Have just given Pepper his first dose. And he managed to nip me through the bag, so looking forward to some fun and games this week. I asked for some probiotic as she didnt mention them. And was given the biggest tube ever - I think thats all they had in? It's called Pro-Fibre for Rabbits and small animal - probiotic and prebiotic supplement to encourage normal digetive function, containing extra dietary fibre. made by Protexin. They look like small pellets.
I have seperated Salt and Pepper for now to double check if it is definatley Pepper with the problem but they did lots of poos and wees in their carry box and no blood in there.
She wants him on this Antibiotic for a week I asked if she could do an x-ray to check for bladder stones but she said not yet and to wait and see how he gets on with the antibiotic. She very much doubts he will lay still for an x-ray as I was querying about not using an anaesthetic, and she thinks they will have to if it comes to that?
I did weigh them last year in June. On my scales Salt was 1.2kg, Pepper was bigger at 1.45kg? They both dont eat many pellets (excel), love there greens and eat loads of hay , Meadow, Oats wheat barley and Timothy, readigrass etc.
 
What was the diagnosis?
Septrin is the usual antibiotic given for urinary tract infections.
The usual maximum dose of Baytril, 2.5% Oral Suspension, is 0.4ml twice daily.
The whole point of wrapping a pig in a towel is to keep it still whilst taking an xray!
 
alcesterpigs said:
What was the diagnosis?
Septrin is the usual antibiotic given for urinary tract infections.
The usual maximum dose of Baytril, 2.5% Oral Suspension, is 0.4ml twice daily.
The whole point of wrapping a pig in a towel is to keep it still whilst taking an xray!
Click to expand...

UTI ? But dont think the vet can be sure ? She checked both pigs bottoms and stomach.

I have another appointment in a weeks time.
Should I query the type of Antibiotic she's given me? I asked so many questions this morning I think she was fed up of me :) I made a mad dash through the rush hour traffic and my husband went to work late so he could do the school run.
I'll try the towel technique here and see if I can get it to work just in case he does need an x-ray. But Pepper is so fiesty.
I've still got Salt and Pepper seperated on light coloured fleece but no blood as yet.

I'm also keeping an open mind re his drinking and weight as read this can be diabetes, and uti is common when they have diatbetes?
 
By all means query the antibiotic. There is a slightly increased chance of a UTI when there is also diabetes.
 
Well, I was working last night and one of the bosses at the Vets rang me at work to discuss Peppers treatment. I had rung earlier to discuss the Antibiotics issue. But no-one was able to take my call and the receptionist said she'd try and get some-one to ring me back.
The boss vet Becca said they had better results by using Baytril ? But she wanted to see me and Pepper herself (rather than the vet I saw yesterday) on Friday rather than leave it next week. She could hear I wanted the best treatment and I was firing so many question and a bit emotional yesterday. As all the things I'd read on here about bladder stones and kidneys and bleeding etc etc made me think the worse.
What with christmas, my Mothers-in laws Funeral a few days after christmas and my husband struggling with work now I really didnt think I could face this too. But today I feel emotionally stronger.
Pepper is certainly strong and is eating pooing and running around as usual. He is very fiesty and struggles Soooooo much when I am trying to give him his med. I have him wrapped up in his fleece bag with just his head popping out but he can sqworm and struggle and bite. He can turn round even though I have him held tightly and he attacks the material of the bag. God knows how much ends down his throat? I hate stressing him up.
Thanks everyone for your support
 
I understand

I hope all is well.I have been through all the bladder stone problem but my cavie Darcy has made excellent recovery.If you ever feel your vet is fed up with you i really would look for another.You need to feel they are on your side.My Darcy is on Cystaid long term and has no further problems for 2 months.
Urine samples can be taken for anaylsis i sit my piggies in a plastic tub on my knee to get samples.Feed lettuce and cucumber and just wait ! Its always worked and i quickly draw wee up with 1ml syringe -off vet.
Helenxx>>>xx>>>
 
I'm seeing the vet tomorrow and want to get it clear in my head. As I had a conversasion on the phone with her and I queried the Byrail antibiotic they had given me and she said they found it more effective to treat bladder infections. I queried why I wasnt given pain relief, she said because if it turns out to be a kidney problem then medication for pain relief would have put extra strain on the kidneys. I am also not happy that I had to ask for probiotics instead of just being perscribed them. I want to feel like they are giving me advice not me having to badger them for it.

When I first found the blood a few days ago it was red blobby, I havnt found any like that now, although here may be a oraney tinge to his wee, so blood present maybe? Should the vet be asking me to collect a urine sample?
Or will they want to x-ray him only if he continues to go down hill?

I heard him do a little squeek this afternoon and saw him pushing a poo out, then he went down with his mouth and I thought he was eating it, but he didnt. When I took a closer look there was some very sticking like mucus on one end, really sticky? I find one like that the other day too.
Your advise much appriciated
 
Antibiotics and/or pain can reduce a piggies apetitie and the result will be dehydration and mucus-covered poos such as what you have found. Feeding Critical Care or Recovery and syringing water can help this and you should start doing this anyway. Get the vet to check if piggie is dehydrated as they may need a subQ injection to give them a jump start. Weigh your piggie each day to check they are not losing weight,

Your vet is adopting a conservative approach to treatment hence the "try baytril and wait and see". Presumably the vet has had a good feel of your piggie (palpation) and found a painful inflamed bladder. Baytril is the only antibioitc licensed for piggies hence why it has been prescribed.

If it is an infection then that is all that may be needed. If there is no improvement, they might try another antibiotic, this time not-licensed for piggies (Septrin is the one that is considered best for urine infections). An infection however is often indicated by quite smelly, cloudy wee.

If infection is not the cause, an X ray will need to be done to check if there are stones in the urethra, the bladder or the kidneys. Stones can cause a blockage so if your guinea stops weeing at all it is important to take them to the vet immediately. It is important you monitor output at the moment. Depending upon the location of the stone it may be possible to be removed surgically. Even if no stones show, your guinea may have sterile cystitis (inflammation of the bladder but not caused by a bug).

As far as pain relief is concerned, long term course can put a strain on the kidneys, However the vet cannot know it is kidney stones unless they do an X ray - if it is anything other than kidney stones or other kidney problem (which would need a blood test) then pain relief with metacam which is also an antiinflammatory can help your little piggie both by reducing the inflammation in the bladder and by relieving the pain that will encourage him to eat and drink more. A short course of metacam will do more good than harm because it will encourage your piggie to eat....and in any case, if ti were kidney stones, they are inoperable and renal failure will be the end result so surely far better to make the animal as comfortable as possible by providing pain relief.

A urine sample (in a clean poastic container and drawn up into a syringe) can be easily tested with a dipstick for blood in the urine and checked for appearance. However it may not be much use for microbial culture owing to contamination - but it can be examined microscopically for crystals (indicative of sludge/stones) and the presence of large numbers of bacteria that might indicate infection.

Therefore the best next diagnostic test is an X ray. Piggies can go downhill very quickly - hence why people here are suggesting an X ray is done to rule out stones sooner rather than later. Bear in mind however that diagnostic tests are expensive, there is very little insurance cover for piggies, hence why a lot of vets adopt a give baytril and wait and see approach with piggies.

Personally I would request an X ray sooner rather than later - and if the vet won;t agree you need to consider changing your vet. If the vet does agree, asking for it to be done without anaesthetic would probably be one step too far for your current vet - as long as the anaesthetic given would be a whiff of gas rather than the full injectable/reversible anaesthetic that is more risky for piggies, I think the most important thing here is to find out if there is a stone...because the piggie may be too weak for surgery by the time it is determined that there actually is a stone and infection is not the cause.

Finally - One of my boars has sterile cystitis - They are on metacam and although they are eating, they are not eating enough so I feed them critical care two or three times a day and also syringe water. I have also boiled up some pearl barley and fed them 2ml of the gloopy fluid (with 1 ml Holland and Barret Cranberry concentrate added for every 20ml of gloop) two or three times a day. It took about three weeks, but they are now back to normal.

Hope this helps. Good luck with the vet today. The most important thing is to determine the cause and in the mean time keep your piggie well hydrated and fed.....so it is worthwhile getting some Critical care or Supreme Recovery and starting to give that now.

xx
 
A suitable treatment is to crush a Buscopan tablet add it to water and give by mouth. Buscopan, available from any pharmacy, is not a pain killer, it is an anti spasmodic drug. Dose is one tablet daily.
It is quite easy to xray a guinea pig.
There is no need for any anaesthetic/sedation to take an xray, the pig is restrained by wrapping it in a towel.
All of the above comments are from "hands on experience", not just quoted from a text-book.
 
alcesterpigs said:
A suitable treatment is to crush a Buscopan tablet add it to water and give by mouth. Buscopan, available from any pharmacy, is not a pain killer, it is an anti spasmodic drug. Dose is one tablet daily.
It is quite easy to xray a guinea pig.
There is no need for any anaesthetic/sedation to take an xray, the pig is restrained by wrapping it in a towel.
All of the above comments are from "hands on experience", not just quoted from a text-book.
Click to expand...

Hi AP

How's you?

I fully endorse what you say in that there is no need for an anaesthetic to X ray.

However not all of us on the forum are lucky enough to have vets who will co-operate....and in my case it has taken a considerable amount of time (and money) to get to a stage with my new vets that we have a mutual trust and respect to try "new things" that are "off license" or "not taught". My vets will now do their best to xray without anaesthetic :)- but if the piggie wont co-operate and they can;t get the right/focused view within three tries (normally because of limbs slighty blocking the area needed to be viewed) , they currently have my permission to put the pig under....(but only until we have found the best way to towel wrap or devise a restraint - which we are working on now courtesy of some bits of moulded cardboard, towels, tape and some junk in my loft!) It's also worth pointing out that until I found these new vets, none of my previous vets (all 4 practices over the last 10 years) would EVER do more than prescribe baytril for a sick piggie..let alone suggest an X ray.

So yes you're right - the best option is to get an X ray without anaesthetic.

However in view of Salt n Peppers vet seemingly being of the "old school", the weekend coming up and the piggies current reported condition, if the [*]only[/*] choices S n P is given to help Pepper are to have either

a) an X ray with gas anaesthetic or
b) no X ray and continue on the antibiotics with a mis-diagnosis and the possible implications

my personal choice, based upon previous experience and a risk analysis of the current situation in the best interests of Pepper, would be to go for the X ray...hence my post.

S n P is facing what many visitors to the forum face - finding out that most vets are not cavy savvy or prepared to prescribe off license (but that their vet is all they have available to them in an emergency situation) However the views of the forum about what is best (which many vets are not yet ready to take on board) can be strong influence indeed...and could easily cause a rift between owner and vet and poor piggie loses out. We can always quote the "ideal" situation for future reference and clearly all piggie owners need to take heed and go and find a good piggie vet- but the welfare of Pepper is paramount given the current circumstances and the vet available....so I think sometimes a risk analysis of an individuals situation vis a vis their vets capabilities has to made.

Happy to take this up with you or anyone else off line.

x>>

PS S n P - hope you had a good consultation and a plan of action for Pepper is now agreed. x
 
Thank you

Thank you Pebble

I really appreicate your reply.

I had already gone off to the vets this morning so didnt read your lovely informative post before I went. I have to say my vet is a lovely person and very easy to talk to but me be a novice and first time at the vets with the piggies....... You see peoples advice on here and you hear your vets advice. Well Its very conflicting, frustrating too.
If only it was easy finding the right vet that knew about Piggies in every area.
I am happy to learn and so glad you took the time to explain to me.

OK I'm going with my gut instinct. I think Pepper had bladder stones and I fully intend to follow this through. But I hadnt read your post before I went to the vets this morning and I totally agreed with everything you have posted - and I'm sure I am like a lot of people - trusting your vet's advice and feeling patronising if you dare suggest alternative. Because I feel I can talk to my vet I am going to take some info with me and ask her to look through it and ask her to have an open mind.

I said I would get a urine sample. she looked quite suprised when I told her he would sit in a plastic bowl until he pee-d. She said I might be waiting along time. But as everyone on here knows piggies poo and pee for England so I dont think we will be waiting long rolleyes

Pepper is still maintaining his weight. Eating etc. No blood. But still ONLY when he poos (not pees) he sometimes makes a little squeak.

I had a delivery of Oxbow Orchard hay today and both have been none stop eating it and had to fill hay rack up twice!

In the meantime I am watching him like a hawk. As when 2 pigs are together its hard to know whos done what!

By the way- when people say piggies are very docile when picked up... why arnt my two? Why does Pepper bite the end of a syringe like a pit bull terrier?
I just want to do the best, but find it very frustrating.
Paula
 
P
I am well.
Did you read between the lines of my last post!?
Hands on etc
 
You ARE doing your best....

If you suspect bladder stones - try some pearl barley/cranberry gloop over the weekend.won;t do him any harm and will help soothe the bladder..get as much fluid down him to flush the bladder, esepcially if he is not drinking water - and keep up with the baytril. (If the bleeding has stopped it could be that it is an infection and the baytril is working)

Re the urine sample - it must be fresh. So make an appointment with the vet for a certain time and then make sure you have a fresh urine sample to take in at that time.

Possible reasons why piggies bite the end of a syringe: a) perhaps they are using it to grind their teeth down because they are not eating enough to grind them down during the normal day to day feeding (b) perhaps because they are hungry/thirsty (c) they're just little tykes!

Beechie bites the syringe atm because he is hungry (I know he is not eating enough normal food). Grommie chews far down the syringe because he needs to grind his molars (he needs dental treatment every few months for spurs). When they are both "fit" neither of them will even accept a syringe. Maple on the other hand won;t let go of the syringe no matter what nasty tasting medicine he is given (but he is a big chunky boar with attitude!)

Good to hear that Pepper is maintaining his weight -and that he is eating hay....that will help keep his little internal sausage machine going which is very important atm. Keep weighing to make sure he is not losing weight through not eating his ration of pellets (if he is losing weight - fluids and Recovery are best).

It is difficult when you have two piggies together to keep an eye on one individual - I normally put a poorly one on a white towel (on the sofa) for a couple of hours with some cucumber to monitor/check output/colour etc.

If you are worried about not having pro-biotics - worth mashing up some of Salt's poos and giving them with Recovery to Pepper.

Hope you have a stress-free weekend and that Pepper is on the road to recovery

xx
 
Peppers eating good, all his veggies, munching like mad on hay, maintaining weight. Only thing now is the odd squeak when he poos. Its as though I am waiting for the 'fall'. I keep thinking the Antibiotics could be helping with the infection but what if the underlaying problem is bladder stones that caused the infection in the first place? Because I didnt think he should be squeaking sometimes when pooing if it was an infection? I thought they did that with stones. When he squeaked the other day and pooed he definatley didnt wee at the same time.
Pepper seems to be drinking alot. As I said in previous posts he always has done? Never seen my other pig Salt drink yet. So, because I know he is having plenty of fluids I am not too worried on that aspect. I have cranberry juice, but will pop out for the Pearl Barley. Gave him red peppers, cucumber, half baby corn, Romaine lettice and a few blueberries this morning.
I have probiotic (Protexin Pro-Fibre) I had to ask the vets for it, as she said they dont always need it.
Biting end of syringe - (to quote 'Pepper is a little Tyke') To give him his meds, I wrap him up in a towel with just his little head poking out, he tries his very best to squirm and hide his head, then he gets really mad and bites the towel. Last night he nipped through the towel and left a puncture wound on my hand. Then he has a go at the syringe because he's trying his best to get it away and goes at it like he wants to kill it.
It is very stressful for him and I have started to dread this twice a day.
Pepper wont stay still for long and will bite your clothes when he wants to be let go off (about 30 seconds) so I have always sat on the floor and let them come to me, they tolerate a chin rub but run off if you touch their back.
 
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