Recurring Bloat - What Can I Do To Prevent?

[Blobfish]

Hi everyone!
I've been following the GP forum for some time, but this is my first post! I have two male piggies (brothers, 3 years old); both get recurring bloat. The past 18 months I have been back and forth to the vets every month or two with one or the other piggies, almost always because of bloat. I'm beginning to find it quite challenging, it's quite worrying each time it happens. Each time they are put on a round of metoclopramide and ranitidine, I have to syringe feed them around the clock, sometimes vibrate them if they are particularly bad. There have been a number of times when I've found myself at the emergency vets at 2am in the morning, for my piggy to have a needle stuck in it to let the gas out.

I cut out all gassy veggies (i.e. broccoli, kale, cabbage etc.) a couple of years ago. They still got bloat. I've pretty much cut out all veggies now - only giving a few sprigs of herbs, but they still get gassy. They don't get given any grass - they live indoors (on hay), and have spacious C&C cages, which are cleaned about once per week. They are given good quantities of Oxbow timothy hay, and fresh water. I try so hard to give them the best care I can, but they just keep getting ill. My vets bills come in on average £200 per month, I'm just desperate to prevent this keep happening!
Can I completely cut all veg (including herbs) from their diet? I would do this if it helps, although I feel so bad, as their tiny snippet of herbs is their highlight of the day, they get so excited at feeding time! Not that they get much anymore. They also get Excel nuggets.

One of my guinea's recently had all his teeth checked - they were fine. So not a factor (for that one at least).

The two boys are not together (they don't really get on), but their C&C cages are only separated by the mesh panel, so they can still see each other.

I would be really grateful for any advice.

Thanks x

 

[Wiebke]

I am very sorry - what a nightmare for you!

Would you consider trying wheat-free pellets to see whether that can settle down the digestion? Perhaps that may help you? @helen105281

 

[Blobfish]

I'll try anything! I never realised that Excel pellets would contain wheat. And I never considered that piggies could be intolerant to it either! Does anyone have any thoughts about a completely veggie free diet? This would be sad, and boring for them - but I don't know.... maybe necessary?

 

[Wiebke]

I'll try anything! I never realised that Excel pellets would contain wheat. And I never considered that piggies could be intolerant to it either! Does anyone have any thoughts about a completely veggie free diet? This would be sad, and boring for them - but I don't know.... maybe necessary?

I have tagged Helen for advice on pellets. I would try that before going completely veg-free. You will have to supplement with vitamin C anyway.

 

[Blobfish]

• Thank you Wiebke

 

[Wiebke]

Just be patient - it is the weekend!

 

[Veggies Galore]

I agree - Helen105281 is the best person to talk about pellets . Are you based in the UK ?

It is very difficult to get grainless pellets from shops in the UK - most of them are only available online.

It would be helpful if you could provide us with some idea of your location in your profile if you are happy to do this as this helps us tailor our advice.





Here is a link to help you do this …



https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk...cation-and-creating-an-avatar-picture.107444/

 

[Blobfish]

I agree - Helen105281 is the best person to talk about pellets . Are you based in the UK ?

It is very difficult to get grainless pellets from shops in the UK - most of them are only available online.

It would be helpful if you could provide us with some idea of your location in your profile if you are happy to do this as this helps us tailor our advice.

Here is a link to help you do this …

https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk...cation-and-creating-an-avatar-picture.107444/

Thanks - I live in Sunbury, on the Surrey border with West London

 

[helen105281]

Sorry I have been out all day at a family birthday.

Definitely worth trying grainless pellets as grains are difficult for pigs to process. The ones I recommend are all available from Zooplus, the first one is the best but not all pigs like it, whereas the other 2 seem to be preferred. Mine are on the Vitakraft at the moment.

Bunny GuineaPigDream BASIC | Free P&P on orders £29+ at zooplus!

Vitakraft Emotion Professional Prebiotic Guinea Pig

JR Farm Grainless Complete Guinea Pig | Free P&P £29+ at zooplus!

 

[Blobfish]

Sorry I have been out all day at a family birthday.

Definitely worth trying grainless pellets as grains are difficult for pigs to process. The ones I recommend are all available from Zooplus, the first one is the best but not all pigs like it, whereas the other 2 seem to be preferred. Mine are on the Vitakraft at the moment.

Bunny GuineaPigDream BASIC | Free P&P on orders £29+ at zooplus!

Vitakraft Emotion Professional Prebiotic Guinea Pig

JR Farm Grainless Complete Guinea Pig | Free P&P £29+ at zooplus!

Thanks very much! I will give these a try. Hopefully this will help solve the constant bloating.

 

[eileen]

hi,blobfish,welcome to the friendly forum.ive a guinea pig at present who has bloat,i have changed him onto bunny guinea pig basic gradually over last 7 days.i have found his reaction to bloat is much less extreme,so i believed these grain free pellets have helped him greatly.

 

[Tim]

Hiya blobfish, sorry I don't have any advice for you but I hope this friendly forum and Helen find some answers for your piggy x

 

[Blobfish]

Thanks again everyone for the advice. So I bought both 'Bunny' and 'Vitakraft' brands of grain free food. The first night I offered them some, both piggies tucked in quite hapily, probably because they were excited by something new and different. I gradually swapped over during the course of a week or two, eventually cutting out their normal pellets. One piggie seems ok, and is definitely eating the Vitakraft (I'm not sure he likes the 'Bunny' brand). However, the other pig seems to be flatly refusing, despite a very gradual change over. Unfortunately he has just had bloat now. I think it's because he wouldn't eat the pellets, so probably had a bit of GI stasis (don't worry, I'm used to this. Bloat and GI stasis is a monthly thing in my house, so I have all the meds etc.!). So I've now bought 'Rosewoods' grainfree piggy food.Hopefully he likes that one.Otherwise I'll only have a few other brands left to try!
Meadow Menu Guinea Pig 2kg :: Rosewood Pet

 

[helen105281]

They can be tricky to switch to, my Maud won't eat any of the grainless ones apart from a half arsed attempt at Vitakraft so I have to still give her a small amount of normal pellets.

 

[Blobfish]

Ok so I had to bite the bullet and take one of my pigs to the specialist exotic vet today. I've tried swapping both pigs over to wheat-free pellets. One has taken to it okay (although still feels slightly bloated). My second piggy has flatly refused three different brands of grain-free pellets now. Unfortunately over the last few days he has had bloat/ GI stasis again. I assumed it was because I have been messing around with his diet, and he wasn't eating enough pellets because I'd got rid of his beloved Burgess Excel nuggets. As mentioned in my original post, bloat and GI stasis happens really frequently, and is quite distressing for all involved. He looked really poorly today - so I decided I just wanted to get to the bottom of all this. The specialist vet took xrays, checked teeth properly under anaesthetic, and has sent blood and poo samples to the lab. He found that my poorly piggy has chronic middle ear infections in both ears (this is different from normal ear infections, and can only be noticed from xrays). He also has arthritis in one shoulder, and from a quick look under a microscope, has a very high number of protozoa in his droppings. The full results from proper blood and poo analysis will be ready next week. But this may be the reason he gets bloat - it certainly is the reason on this occassion. The pain from the middle ear infections and arthritis may be enough to stop him eating (leading to stasis and bloat), while the protozoa in balance may also be causing issues with his digestive system.
The reason for writing all this is to help anyone else that may have problems with reoccurring bloat - sometimes you just don't know what it is unless you see a specialist and undertake a full investigation. Today cost £430 - but I really feel it was worth it! Poor boy must have been in pain,and I would have never known. And his condition would just keep leading to more stasis and bloat. I'm now wondering if my second pig may have any of these things causing his bloat (although he is currently well).

I've been told to permanently cut out all veggies/ herbs etc. Just pellets and good quality hay now The vet has given me various meds to treat the above.

 

[3stooges]

I have no advice for you but just wanted to express some sympathy on this subject. I lost a very beloved pet Rabbit 2 weeks ago to stasis. She was the size of a large cat (Giant Breed) and my very 1st Rabbit. Unfortunately for her it struck fast and ended fast.

I think it is amazing that you have picked up on symptoms, I only wish I did as she would probably still be here but it struck so fast. Hoping and preying that your babies get over this horrid, heartbreaking condition . xx

 

[Wiebke]

Ok so I had to bite the bullet and take one of my pigs to the specialist exotic vet today. I've tried swapping both pigs over to wheat-free pellets. One has taken to it okay (although still feels slightly bloated). My second piggy has flatly refused three different brands of grain-free pellets now. Unfortunately over the last few days he has had bloat/ GI stasis again. I assumed it was because I have been messing around with his diet, and he wasn't eating enough pellets because I'd got rid of his beloved Burgess Excel nuggets. As mentioned in my original post, bloat and GI stasis happens really frequently, and is quite distressing for all involved. He looked really poorly today - so I decided I just wanted to get to the bottom of all this. The specialist vet took xrays, checked teeth properly under anaesthetic, and has sent blood and poo samples to the lab. He found that my poorly piggy has chronic middle ear infections in both ears (this is different from normal ear infections, and can only be noticed from xrays). He also has arthritis in one shoulder, and from a quick look under a microscope, has a very high number of protozoa in his droppings. The full results from proper blood and poo analysis will be ready next week. But this may be the reason he gets bloat - it certainly is the reason on this occassion. The pain from the middle ear infections and arthritis may be enough to stop him eating (leading to stasis and bloat), while the protozoa in balance may also be causing issues with his digestive system.
The reason for writing all this is to help anyone else that may have problems with reoccurring bloat - sometimes you just don't know what it is unless you see a specialist and undertake a full investigation. Today cost £430 - but I really feel it was worth it! Poor boy must have been in pain,and I would have never known. And his condition would just keep leading to more stasis and bloat. I'm now wondering if my second pig may have any of these things causing his bloat (although he is currently well).

I've been told to permanently cut out all veggies/ herbs etc. Just pellets and good quality hay now The vet has given me various meds to treat the above.

Wishing you all the best! I hope that with addressing all issues, you can turn him round. It may be worth considering whether your other boy has got similar digestive problems once you have got the test results in.

Unfortunately, lab tests are not cheap, but as you have not got anywhere otherwise, it sounds like it is worth it!

 

[Blobfish]

I have no advice for you but just wanted to express some sympathy on this subject. I lost a very beloved pet Rabbit 2 weeks ago to stasis. She was the size of a large cat (Giant Breed) and my very 1st Rabbit. Unfortunately for her it struck fast and ended fast.

I think it is amazing that you have picked up on symptoms, I only wish I did as she would probably still be here but it struck so fast. Hoping and preying that your babies get over this horrid, heartbreaking condition . xx

3stooges I'm really sorry to hear about your bunny. Unfortunately I didn't come to recognise the signs of bloat through any kind of prior research or luck. I learnt the hard way - I had a third guinea pig, Moomin, who was an absolute angle, and the funniest, friendliest pig ever. He died from liquid bloat - partly because I didn't know the signs when it happened. I took him to the vet on the same day as I noticed he wasn't right, but it was too late. So I know the feeling. I'm really sorry it's happened to you to. My experience with Moomin did however make me more aware and knowledgeable when my other piggies got bloat.

 

[3stooges]

Gypsy was 3 and a 1/2, quite a large Bun, always had been very lazy. I never noticed anything out of the ordinary. She was free range, she was always put in an extra large dog crate at night. On that fateful day I remember putting her back into bed at about 2.15 am in the morning, it was late as i was up working and she was happy to lounge around. I finally went to bed at about 3ish am. I did get up later that morning at about 10.45-11 am. I went to feed and water her and let out but she just lay there looking very, very unwell. I got her out, made her comfortable and called the emergency vet, I also administered critical care and infacol. We finally got the call to take her in (was a Sunday) but around 11.45am-12pm she died in my arms. I am still very upset and I am trying to research the why's and How's and how I can prevent my other 2 buns getting it. Such a complex condition for such delicate little stomachs. I am monitoring everything now and constantly researching what might cause it and what is ok.

I will follow your story and keep my fingers tightly crossed for your babies but also I am here if you need a good cry or to release frustration. Its very hard on us humans because all we want to do is care. x

 

[Blobfish]

Gypsy was 3 and a 1/2, quite a large Bun, always had been very lazy. I never noticed anything out of the ordinary. She was free range, she was always put in an extra large dog crate at night. On that fateful day I remember putting her back into bed at about 2.15 am in the morning, it was late as i was up working and she was happy to lounge around. I finally went to bed at about 3ish am. I did get up later that morning at about 10.45-11 am. I went to feed and water her and let out but she just lay there looking very, very unwell. I got her out, made her comfortable and called the emergency vet, I also administered critical care and infacol. We finally got the call to take her in (was a Sunday) but around 11.45am-12pm she died in my arms. I am still very upset and I am trying to research the why's and How's and how I can prevent my other 2 buns getting it. Such a complex condition for such delicate little stomachs. I am monitoring everything now and constantly researching what might cause it and what is ok.

I will follow your story and keep my fingers tightly crossed for your babies but also I am here if you need a good cry or to release frustration. Its very hard on us humans because all we want to do is care. x

Thank you. And I'm sorry again for what happened to you and your bunny. Yes unfortunately it can all go downhill very quickly. I remember (a couple of years ago now) seeing Moomin was ill in the morning - maybe 8am. I didn't know why though. I got a same day vets appointment for 2pm. I didn't realise at the time, but it ended up that by the time we got to the vets he was too ill, and he didn't recover. I got a phone call from the vets early evening to say he didn't make it. It was awful. And I felt so bad. But it's not our fault. We try our best, try to do the best we can for them - but we can't know everything about everything. We learn from experience. Unfortunately when Moomin had bloat - I was quite a new guinea pig owner and just wasn't experienced with digestive issues.

In terms of what to watch out for in the future - I don't know about rabbits, but for my piggies the warning signs are as follows: No droppings produced after a few hours, or a very reduced amount of droppings. If I go to bed at, say 11pm, and check them at say 8am - and there are hardly any droppings.... I start to get suspicious. Decreased or no interest in food. If they don't finish their veggies, or don't tuck into nice fresh hay I put in front of them... then again that alerts me. If they keep lying down (more than usual) - that is usually a sign something is up. The very obvious signs are sitting hunched up in their hiddy place, with their fur all ruffled up. This can be a sign of a number of medical issues making a piggy feel uncomfortable, but with my boys I know it's likely to be bloat, as it affects them so frequently! Also, with bloat, you are likely to notice that the belly is bigger/ rounder than normal, and will probably sound a bit hollow on at least one side if given a gentle flick. However, an animal can get GI stasis without bloat, I think (so might not look rounded).

Apparently, to minimise the likelihood of bloat, it is important to offer loads of good quality fresh hay (I like Oxbow timothy hay), high quality pellets, and cut back (or eliminate) gassy vegetables, fruit, and unhealthy treats. Make sure they have plenty of fresh water, and check daily that their sippy bottle works properly (one of my piggies got GI stasis once because someone was looking after him while I was away, but his bottle wasn't on properly).Try to make sure they have lots of room to move around and get enough exercise. It's also been suggested above to consider grain-free pellets.
However, having suggested this - I do all of these things and my boys still get bloat. As you can see from my above post, sometimes it can be caused by things other than just diet/ not enough exercise. But I think the above would be a good start in trying to reduce the chance of it happening again...

 

[DM030819]

I was told by my guinea pig specialised vet that you can use Emeprid (Metoclopramide) long term if that helps. It might be worth talking to your vet about that.

Also, I have a pig who has the piggy equivalent of IBS. I was talking to a few people on Guinea Lynx about it and someone said that they give the Oxbow Digestive Support tablets to their bloaty pigs and it helps. She actually even takes them herself for her IBS. That might be worth a try, or at least a mention to your vet to see what they think.

What about a good probiotic? Or poop soup from a healthy pig? They're just random ideas, nothing I know that works.

I hope you can get to the bottom of it. Bloat is scary, I have a boy that is prone to it, but thankfully it's doesn't happen often.

 

[lauraboara]

Make sure they have plenty of fresh water, and check daily that their sippy bottle works properly (one of my piggies got GI stasis once because someone was looking after him while I was away, but his bottle wasn't on properly).

Agree with this - I think hydration is key - I have a piggie who has gassy episodes, weird poos etc and he definitely responds to maintaining his water intake. He has had a bad phase recently and although he is off meds now, I am continuing with probiotics and syringing water (actually cool camomile tea) every evening and it seems to help his poohs. Just what I am observing though. I think the gut issues are often quite variable between pigs.

 

[3stooges]

Brilliant advice Blobfish, thank you ever so much . I will certainly look out for those signs and monitor behaviour and try to respond as quick as possible.
My piggies are on supreme science pellets, pets at home brand muesli, a constant supply of meadow hay, Timothy hay and at the moment i have been introducing some fresh veggies such as peppers and cucumber. I did try some lettuce but they turned their noses up at that. I find with the muesli that they are selective feeding so I will probably remove it after i have finished the bag but as I am trying to get them to gain weight I don't really mind to much because they do eat their pellets and i make sure pellets are always available. My 3 are very tiny and were only weighing in at just over 200 grams a few days ago, they have since put a bit on as i weighed again yesterday.
My Buns are on Burgess pellets, chudlys muesli, meadow hay, timothy hay and fresh fruits and veg but i have cut out gassy veg's now.
I am still learning about Rabbit digestion issues and I have had Rabbits for many years and only ever lost one to bloat. I have never owned piggies before so I certainly have a lot to investigate.

x