Resp probs? Please help, Louis again

[Ryo_the_Rat]

Sorry to be starting another thread about Louis but his problems seem to go further then just his teeth. I think i may have mistaken his weight loss and drooling for tooth problems when actually he seems to now have developed resp problems Its happened quite quickly because obviously i was only posting about him yesterday thinking it was his teeth( http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=56611 ) but i have gotten him out this evening and i knew straight away when i went to get him from his cage that something was up because he was just sitting there in his house.

I picked him up and his stools seem slightly loose. he is wheezing a little, drooling a little and has runny eyes. he isnt sneezing, his nose isnt runny at all. I have just gave him some sudafed(0.4mls) and I'm going to give him some baytril and also try syringe feeding him some of his crushed cavy cuisine. I will be able to get some garlic capsules for him tomorrow but is there anything else i can do? I will ring my vets in the morning and see if we can be seen tomorrow instead of tuesday obviously because i know time is of the essence here, but the vet that usually works saturdays isnt very good

Last night he dove on his hay and sat muching away on some cucumber and cabbage so he is eating, but as mentioned in my other thread neither of the piggies seem to be eating their dry food at the moment.

Coincidently Max has an abcess at the moment and a few days ago when i was cleaning it he wheezed-i havnt heard a peep out of him since and he has definately shown no other signs of being ill, but finding Louis like this obviously has me concerned now. I'm not sure why or how either of them could have gotten ill-there has been no contact with anyone else's animal's and we have had no new animals in our home for nearly two years now.

If anyone has any advice id really appreciate it. As i said obviously I'm going to try and get him into the vets tomorrow and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that one of the good vets will be working.

 

[Ryo_the_Rat]

Well he was fighting me when i was syringe feeding him so il take that as a good sign! lol As i said we did see him eating last night happily munching away, I'm just not sure when he last had some of their dry food! I havnt gave him Baytril yet because when i was doing a search on here i saw it mentioned in one post about not giving baytril and sudafed together-anyone know if this is ok or not? I also dont have any probiotic to give yet-we did have some and it was in date but we have just got it out to give and it has gone very dodgy in the tub so decided not to risk giving it to him! Will see if any pet shops have some tomorrow. Will i be ok to give him baytril without having the probiotic for now?

Just going to do some veg and see if he will take any tonight. I weighed both the boys and Max is 984g and nice and chunky but Louis is 864g and as i said in my other post i can tell he has lost weight, he was always a chunky boy until his teeth problems started:{

I did have a thought and this might be a very silly question but i came down with the flu pretty badly on saturday and havnt been able to shake it-the boys couldnt have caught anything off me could they?

Oh and i also wonder if his stools are a little loose tonight because he hasnt eaten his dry food but had cucumber lat night which obviously has a high water content? They arent runny, there was just a wet looking one stuck to his bottom when i took him out!

 

[Pebble]

I would start on the baytril [*]now, immediately[/*]......if he does have a URI (and the runny eyes, wheezing...preceded by lack of eating etc would support that) then the sooner you start giving him antibioitics the more chance of recovery he has. I understand your concern about the loose poos but to be honest, given the situation, a dose of baytril now before you see the vet tomorrow would not do much harm...but could do a lot of good.
(One of the signs I have noticed of a more advanced URI/poorly piggie is the development of loose poos.).....so please give the baytril tonight and get to the vet tomorrow first thing.

Let us know how you get on and we can give some more advice to hlep Louis tomorrow.

HTH
x

 

[Ryo_the_Rat]

Thankyou. I decided the benefit of giving the baytril outweighed the risk of upsetting his tummy and gave it to him. we did give him some more cucumber and he snatched it and had a munch on a little so again i shall take that as a good sign. Hoping we can get in at the vets tomorrow, shall update when i know more!

 

[Pebble]

Good call on the baytril!

When i have very poorly piggies, cucumber and grass are the only two things they will still eat which helps keep their guts going.

Ask your vet tomorrow for some critical care or Supreme recovery if you don;t have any in. You need at least a couple of sachets- (you can order more on the internet but need to allow time for delivery) Try hyerdrug/chemist direct or other vet med places......

If NEITHER of them are eating pellets you will need to discuss treating BOTH of them with antibioitics..AND giving liquid feed to replace the pellets while they are [poorly.

Be aware - Some bacteria which cause abcesses can also cause URI - Strep/Staph...bottom line is that it sounds like you have bugs...so it is essential to practice good hygiene, wash hands between pigs...disinfect towels/fleece if they are indoor piggies (Napisan, Vanish oxy extra hygiene or Trigene in the wash.....and wash at high temp (95)) or if outdoor piggies - you need to bleach or virkon the cage and leave it to stand for a few hours before rinsing, then allow at least 24 hours to dry before putting piggies back.....but ONLY when it is bone dry). Also it is essential your piggies aren;t stressed especially environmentally wise in terms of big temperature changes, loud noises, damp etc as this will make them more susceptible to any bugs floating around at present.....

Keeping fingers and paws crossed here that your prompt action has got it in time.

x

 

[Pebble]

Pro-bioitics - you can order Biolapis at the same item as the Critical Care or Supreme Recovery. Because of the loose poos you may want to consider fibreplex for a few days instead as it is probiotic but helps firm up poos with it;s fibre content.


...Oh and if his lungs sound really congested with fluid when vet examines him tomorrow - try and persuade the vet to give a diuretic (furosemide either a single injection sub cut (5mg/kg) to kick start and/or twice daily oral admin (2mg/kg)) in addition to antibiotic to clear the fluid on the lungs......

x

 

[Ryo_the_Rat]

Thankyou for your posts Pebble. I share bear all that in mind at the vets today.

I have an appointment at the vets for 4pm with Louis but i think i am going to ring and try and get in earlier because he is quite shakey this morningI'm not going to give him his baytril or anything incase the vet wants to give an injection instead. Unfortunately it is just a locum vet we will be seeing, but the receptionist has assured me that the vet has seen one of the nurses piggies in the past and knows what shes doing so I'm hoping thats a good sign. just incase, can people tell me exactly what i should be asking for for Louis today? i dont want to put him through a stressful train journey while hes like this just to come home with baytril that i already have. I'm very worried about him this morningplease help.

 

[Laura-CCC4]

So sorry that Louis has come down with a respiratory infection, I faced the same not very long ago. Give me any medical condition, but the one I hate is respiratory, I feel so helpless even if I do everything possible to help them.

Right, three things I would be requesting from the vets for Louis:

- SubQ/subcut (injected) fluids, you can't really be risking syringing water orally when he has a respiratory infection, if you can avoid it. Vet may be able to show you how to do subcut fluids at home, would prevent having to take more journeys out just to keep Louis safely hydrated.
- More Baytril! Minimum dose, IMO, of 0.4ml 2x daily, I would rather start a pig on a higher dose for a respiratory infection, then reduce it later as the condition eases if a lower dose is deemed preferable.
- A diuretic - even if not administered there and then, I would be seriously inclined to ask for at least two doses of Furosemide to have at home should his condition worsen. This will clear any fluid that fills his lungs, giving the antibiotic time to kick in. It does mean you have to keep him hydrated though, so brings you back again to the SubQ fluids.

Fingers crossed for him. xx

 

[Ryo_the_Rat]

Thankyou Laura, we now have an appointment for 12.30 so will be leaving in the next 15 minutes but I'm making a list of everything that has been mentioned here! I shall ask about the fluids-i do know how to give them as ive had to do it in the past for the ratties but with it being the locum vet rather then my usual vet that knows me(therefore knows i can do that!) i doubt i will get anything like that from them to do at home. as for the frusemide-we do have frusemide tablets here(again, the ratties!) is this what you mean or do you mean injections again? because I shall ask but i doubt a locum will give me anything like that without knowing merolleyes oh wait just reread Pebbles last post and seen it can be given in tablet form too so have that if the vet wont give injections.

I remember going through this with both Budd and Bill and trying everything possible and still losing my old men I cant even bare the thought of losing my Louis. In less then two weeks we have lost one of our old meecey ladies and one of our rattie boysnot having a good time

Shall update as soon as we are home with him-he is snuggled and warm in a blanket right now bless him.

 

[Laura-CCC4]

Frusemide tablets are fine, they are the ones I mean, I am glad you have some. Dosage I give is 10mg initially, then if repeat doses are needed, 5mg.

Sorry to hear you are having such a hard time with pets lately, same here, and a lot of other people too. It's so hard when they are ill, even harder when they don't make it. Will be wishing only the best for your Louis.

 

[Ryo_the_Rat]

Louis is gone The vet seemed quite good and gave him fluids and a baytril injection and another injection. she also gave us some critical care, a probiotic and some more baytril to give at home but he passed away on the train. I just cant believe he is gone, there are no words to describe how i am feeling right now. I think the vet visit caused far too much stress for him as although the vet gave him everything he needed i felt that she was examining him for too long and unneccessarily looking in his mouth for quite a while. i hated having to put him back in the carrier and held him upto my chest while we were in the waiting room waiting to pay, but unfortunately i had to obviously put him back in the carrier to go home. when we got on the train i could see that he couldnt settle and then i noticed his breathing change so i opened the lid and he was dying. I felt so useless, i couldnt even get him out and hold him and comfort him properly in his last moments. we went back to the vets and had some time to say goodbye to him and left him there to be cremated. Poor MaxHe snuggled up to Louis' body on the way back to the vetsI'm so heartbroken right now, i cant believe my Louis is gone.

 

[Pebble]

I'm really sorry to hear this......you did everything you could for him but sadly respiratory infections can take them very suddenly and very quickly.

(Don;t wish to worry you but please keep a close eye on Max for any similar signs over the next few days......has he been put on antibioitics? - if not, might be worth a phone call to your vet tomorrow to discuss)

Run free at The Bridge now little Louis.......

Hugs to you and Max

x

 

[Ryo_the_Rat]

Thankyou Pebble. Max was brought to the vets with Louis yesterday and the vet had a quick look at him but not a proper checkover, they didnt find anything wrong with him though. However i have started Max on Baytril today as I'm just not risking it. I will be weighing him daily to make sure he isnt losing weight and i have ordered some critical care and avipro probiotic too(the vets took the stuff they had given for Louis back off us yesterday when we returned) But yes i will be keeping a really close eye on Max now.

His abcess is pretty much gone with the help of hibiscrub and antirobe-it was on his back, looked like it had formed from a tiny puncture wound so Louis must have got him at some point, which i have to admit i was shocked when i found it because i have never seen the boys fight and they were together for 3 years they did occasionally try and mount one another, but never any fights.

Poor Max I just didnt think i would have to even think about preparing myself for losing either of my piggie boys yetAll my ratties and my mouse are old now but i didnt consider Louis to be old-he would have been 5 in january and this is guessed as he was a rescue so maybe he was older then that, but i still thought i had a long time left with him, i just still cant believe he is gone. I only ordered the boys a new jolly roger slumber tunnel and cavy cave from hammocky hammocks 3 days agoIt feels so unfair

 

[Pebble]

Hugs.....It's tough when they go - you walk in and keep expecting to see their little whiskery faces 8...8...

Puncture wound abcesses are most likely due to a stray sharp claw from the odd territorial mounting rather than a fight...both males and females get them....think it's a piggupational hazard

Hope Max keeps chipper and glad you started hm on baytril to be on the safe side......respiratory infections can deffo be spread between pigs, especially those already challenged by other infection.....

4-5 years old for a piggie is a really good long life...shows how much care you have given him over the years...... so rather than beat yourself up, just rejoice in all the good time you had with Louis...you did him well proud....

x