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Sad decision! Is it time to say goodbye

E

Emma72

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
May 13, 2018
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UK, Newcastle
Some of you may have read my heart failure thread, long story short I have 2 6 month old piggies and one has been poorly with breathing difficulties for 2 months been on fruesimide 2 different antibiotics and anti inflammatory and sadly her breathing is still laboured the vet said her heart is strong ? And is unsure if it is heart failure but is not responding to medication the way she hoped she said maybe it could be something congenital?
She is managing to eat and maintain weight ! But not gain weight which is expected for a young piggie? It does come out in its cage .but has never been an active piggie .. I took it to our vet for weekly review and the vet said maybe it would be kinder to say goodbye ! I couldn’t make that decision tonight so I’ve brought it home.

Would you all wait until it wasn’t managing or intervene before it got to this point she is so young I can’t believe. She is at the point , and I don’t know what to do? Any body had a similar experience
 
This is really a difficult decision and you have a couple options here buy I have been in a similar situation. The first thing I would probably do now looking back is to take her to another vet. Not that one is better but with guinea pigs, it can be very hard to get a correct diagnosis and treatment; it wouldn't hurt to just see if there is another exotic vet you can get some perspective on. My first baby was having difficulties when I brought her home. I was a new owner and didn't know so much so I did put this off until she got really bad. It's how I found this thread. I found a vet and he treated her with antibiotics, diuretics and watched her with follow up visits and multiple other treatments of antibiotics. Eventually he gave me syringes filled with the proper dosage to give her. This is only my experience but I'll write it to give you one perspective. After almost 3 weeks of feeding by hand night and day and then after watching her constantly and getting her to eat each day, I did think she may be getting a bit better as she was at least trying to eat on her own. Not gaining weight but eating. Her breathing remained labored, no matter what treatment the vet gave her and she didn't get worse but didn't get better. This went on for almost 3 months with no changes. I won't say this is your same situation so please don't base everything here on what's written but one evening without warning, I noticed her lying on the blanket instead of under it with the other piggies and she seemed to be on her side. I won't go into anymore as this is still a baby I miss even after some time but after about 4 hours of my holding her and watching her get progressively worse, she had a last seizure and died in my arms.

I would make some different choices now but I can't say which ones for certain. I would start with the other vet and weigh carefully your options.

I am sincerely sorry for what you both have been through and are facing. She is in good hands with her very caring piggie parent. You are giving her a lot whichever way you choose.
 
If she's maintaining but not gaining, she's stable, but it's not a matter of what if, but when. You have to take into consideration her quality of life. Is she running around with the others, eating? Guinea pigs are good at hiding issues, it's built into them as a survival mechanism, survival of the fittest so to speak. I'd get a second opinion based on a final decision about how far you want to take this, and how strong you think she is. Hugs, I know this is hard for you xx
 
Emma72 said:
Some of you may have read my heart failure thread, long story short I have 2 6 month old piggies and one has been poorly with breathing difficulties for 2 months been on fruesimide 2 different antibiotics and anti inflammatory and sadly her breathing is still laboured the vet said her heart is strong ? And is unsure if it is heart failure but is not responding to medication the way she hoped she said maybe it could be something congenital?
She is managing to eat and maintain weight ! But not gain weight which is expected for a young piggie? It does come out in its cage .but has never been an active piggie .. I took it to our vet for weekly review and the vet said maybe it would be kinder to say goodbye ! I couldn’t make that decision tonight so I’ve brought it home.

Would you all wait until it wasn’t managing or intervene before it got to this point she is so young I can’t believe. She is at the point , and I don’t know what to do? Any body had a similar experience
Click to expand...
I thin you should not give up on the poor thing
Emma72 said:
Some of you may have read my heart failure thread, long story short I have 2 6 month old piggies and one has been poorly with breathing difficulties for 2 months been on fruesimide 2 different antibiotics and anti inflammatory and sadly her breathing is still laboured the vet said her heart is strong ? And is unsure if it is heart failure but is not responding to medication the way she hoped she said maybe it could be something congenital?
She is managing to eat and maintain weight ! But not gain weight which is expected for a young piggie? It does come out in its cage .but has never been an active piggie .. I took it to our vet for weekly review and the vet said maybe it would be kinder to say goodbye ! I couldn’t make that decision tonight so I’ve brought it home.

Would you all wait until it wasn’t managing or intervene before it got to this point she is so young I can’t believe. She is at the point , and I don’t know what to do? Any body had a similar experience
Click to expand...
 
What a difficult time you and your Piggy have been having. I'd get a second opinion from a different vet. There is a vet locator at the top of the page for UK based vets. These have been recommended by members so will be good ones. Good luck and let us know how you both get on.
 
Putting aside everything else, does she appear to have a life worth living? Is she able to display normal, guinea pig specific, behaviour? If the answer is yes, then I would certainly not be considering letting her go, at this stage. A second opinion would be a very good idea!

Which antibiotics has she been prescribed so far?
 
I would get a second opinion, it looks like the vet has tried diuretics but not an actual heart medication like an ACE inhibitor (Fortekor, Nelio etc). If in her mind, the next step is PTS. but your pig is still eating and doing all things piggy, I think a heart medication trial would be a next step before making the decision. Also, what dose of Frusemide has been given?
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
Putting aside everything else, does she appear to have a life worth living? Is she able to display normal, guinea pig specific, behaviour? If the answer is yes, then I would certainly not be considering letting her go, at this stage. A second opinion would be a very good idea!

Which antibiotics has she been prescribed so far?
Click to expand...
helen105281 said:
I would get a second opinion, it looks like the vet has tried diuretics but not an actual heart medication like an ACE inhibitor (Fortekor, Nelio etc). If in her mind, the next step is PTS. but your pig is still eating and doing all things piggy, I think a heart medication trial would be a next step before making the decision. Also, what dose of Frusemide has been given?
Click to expand...

She’s on 5mg twice a day ! 😰
 
Emma72 said:
Some of you may have read my heart failure thread, long story short I have 2 6 month old piggies and one has been poorly with breathing difficulties for 2 months been on fruesimide 2 different antibiotics and anti inflammatory and sadly her breathing is still laboured the vet said her heart is strong ? And is unsure if it is heart failure but is not responding to medication the way she hoped she said maybe it could be something congenital?
She is managing to eat and maintain weight ! But not gain weight which is expected for a young piggie? It does come out in its cage .but has never been an active piggie .. I took it to our vet for weekly review and the vet said maybe it would be kinder to say goodbye ! I couldn’t make that decision tonight so I’ve brought it home.

Would you all wait until it wasn’t managing or intervene before it got to this point she is so young I can’t believe. She is at the point , and I don’t know what to do? Any body had a similar experience
Click to expand...

It is always difficult when you come into the bandwidth where pts/euthanasia is a legitimate option, but not yet a necessity, and when the whole responsibility is fully on you. In this band here is no right or wrong, whichever way you decide. Your vet sees the medical side and he has a valid point in that you are fighting a battle you will not be able to win; sadly some piggies have a bad draws when it comes to genetic inheritance. From a medical point of view you are coming to the limits of what can be done for her. :(
But as a loving owner it is your own jugdment where quality of life ends and unnecessary suffering begins; usually (and thankfully) your piggy is often telling you that with their behaviour.

As long as your little girl is stable as she is, is still interested in food and doing normal piggy things, she still has a zest for life and I would respect that; but be prepared to let her go as soon as she starts to deteriorate and lose her appetite/weight, or is too weak to still do some pottering around and enjoy her life and interaction with other piggies.

Quality of life is the rough guideline I try to follow for myself and my own piggies in comparable situations.
When in doubt, listen to your gut feeling and opt for what you can live best in the long term. The line between feeling guilty over having ended a life too early and regrets about having waited for too long is unfortunately a very fine one, as I know myself from my own experiences. It is always much easier when the decision is taken out of your hands.

Please do not feel bad whichever way you decide; you are good and very loving owner. Just try to make as sure as you can that your call feels right for your little girl and for you and that you still feel right about it in your heart once you have come through all the doubts and soul searching that are unfortunately an integral part of the grieving process.
 
fanniephina said:
This is really a difficult decision and you have a couple options here buy I have been in a similar situation. The first thing I would probably do now looking back is to take her to another vet. Not that one is better but with guinea pigs, it can be very hard to get a correct diagnosis and treatment; it wouldn't hurt to just see if there is another exotic vet you can get some perspective on. My first baby was having difficulties when I brought her home. I was a new owner and didn't know so much so I did put this off until she got really bad. It's how I found this thread. I found a vet and he treated her with antibiotics, diuretics and watched her with follow up visits and multiple other treatments of antibiotics. Eventually he gave me syringes filled with the proper dosage to give her. This is only my experience but I'll write it to give you one perspective. After almost 3 weeks of feeding by hand night and day and then after watching her constantly and getting her to eat each day, I did think she may be getting a bit better as she was at least trying to eat on her own. Not gaining weight but eating. Her breathing remained labored, no matter what treatment the vet gave her and she didn't get worse but didn't get better. This went on for almost 3 months with no changes. I won't say this is your same situation so please don't base everything here on what's written but one evening without warning, I noticed her lying on the blanket instead of under it with the other piggies and she seemed to be on her side. I won't go into anymore as this is still a baby I miss even after some time but after about 4 hours of my holding her and watching her get progressively worse, she had a last seizure and died in my arms.

I would make some different choices now but I can't say which ones for certain. I would start with the other vet and weigh carefully your options.

I am sincerely sorry for what you both have been through and are facing. She is in good hands with her very caring piggie parent. You are giving her a lot whichever way you choose.
Click to expand...

This is exactly where we are I have been syringe feeding on top of her eating and I’ve pulled back on the syringe feeding to see if it would make her eat more? And she had lost 8g at review appointment yesterday so all was lost ! And comes out to eat but now spends all her time in the hidey ?
This is the 4th vet she’s seen! And £350 pounds of vet bills ! I went yesterday to say we will do an X-ray but the vet said we would be proving that she had a condition that was not treatable as she wasn’t responding to meds now! She’s been on septrin and baytril spanning approx 6 weeks
 
That is a substantial dose, the thing is though if the heart is not working correctly she will keep building up fluid, the diuretic deals with the effects and not the cause. Also worth trying different antibiotics as Debbie has mentioned.
 
helen105281 said:
That is a substantial dose, the thing is though if the heart is not working correctly she will keep building up fluid, the diuretic deals with the effects and not the cause. Also worth trying different antibiotics as Debbie has mentioned.
Click to expand...

I think Helen the vet said her heart sounds strong ?! It’s so frustrating because she is so lush and I want to try those heart medications 🙄 for my own peace of mind!
 
My vet often says the heart sounds strong but the pig has ended up responding to heart meds. It is just worth mentioning even if the vet does ultimately not agree with it in the end. Something is causing your pig to need diuretics, whether it is heart or something else.
 
helen105281 said:
My vet often says the heart sounds strong but the pig has ended up responding to heart meds. It is just worth mentioning even if the vet does ultimately not agree with it in the end. Something is causing your pig to need diuretics, whether it is heart or something else.
Click to expand...

Right I’ll email her today and say I’ve thought about and is this a possibility ! Your right I can’t do it ?! I just think I have to try every thing ?
 
As Debbie said above, as long as she can still do all things piggy then it is worth trying, but if she does stop being able to do everything a pig does, then that is the time to consider making a decision.
 
This was actually a thought I had after losing Goblin this way as well. I had even asked my vet about a possible heart problem as it was strange she was going on this way. What you are describing sincerely sounds exactly the same as how I went with Goblin. There are others that know a lot here so I can't contribute but I would like to know as well if this is the problem yours is running into.

I was told, however, by another vet whom now sees my gps that heart conditions can be difficult to spot unless being looked for specifically and sometimes misdiagnosed. I am very sorry for this. I'll never forget the hell I had every moment with the back and forth-something I see many times here on the forum. The vet bills are another concern and huge stress as well. Please take care of yourself with this too.

I would never tell you which way to go after all options seem to dwindle. I only can honestly say that Goblin got bad. The hard breathing took a toll on her more every day. She was suffering and it was evident the last days especially. The end was somewhat of a relief but devastating to me and the last half hour or so still breaks my heart.

My heart truly goes out to you both.
 
Baytril and Septrin aren't the best antibiotics for respiratory issues. Zithromax and Marbocyl seem to work much better with anything respiratory. You can even give a combination of both. Maybe this isn't heart related but a very stubborn respiratory infection that just hasn't responded well to the antibiotics given.
 
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