Safe way to have piggies outdoor while having a dog

TinaY

Junior Guinea Pig
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Dubai
Hi all! Now we finally got our puppy and I have tested today to have a heavily zip tied CC cage with a secured lid outdoor while walking our puppy by on the leash and she was way too interested in Donuts and Buckets😟. Now I am worried. I managed to secure them inside, but I think it is very unfair that they get less outdoor time just because we got a puppy. We live in Dubai and literally spend 6 months living in our garden, open doors and all. So far piggies were always with us loving the opportunity to get some fresh air. Is there any way to be able to have piggies out all day without needing to lock the dog away in the meantime? Like a wooden large crate with a lid or something? Has anyone hacked this? Is there even a way?

Even locking the dog in for some time each day will not work, if you ask me. There will be always someone who will forget to close the door.

Thank you! Oh, and btw, I had to separate Donuts and Buckets so I need solution that works for that😫. Donuts ended up biting him a few days ago so that was the end of it. Very sad.
 
It is wonderful that you are being realistic, and tested the situation with your puppy first while he was on a lead.

You could try investing a solid metal or wooden run, but this won't solve the problem of your dog still trying to get at the piggies.
Even if he can't get them, chances are thy will be very scared and not really enjoy their outdoor time.
Another issue to consider is that it an be quite difficult to make sure your dog isn't peeing in the garden in an area where the piggies might graze.
Dog pee is poisonous to guinea pigs, so they can't graze on an area your dog may have toileted on.

Personally unless it is possible to section off a small area specially for the piggies I think it could be difficult to have them outside with the dog.
However I am sure there will be others out there who have better ideas.
 
Peeing is a real issue, it will soon be hard to find a spot the dog has not yet marked. And if I keep something solid in one place, the grass will be gone (it is Dubai, grass is barely surviving even with the extensive watering in place).

Thank you for being brutally honest and realistic about the situation.

Hoping there is a way, but mentally preparing for giving them other type of stimulation and fulfillment (ideas?). Maybe designating a place on the balcony (I know it is not the same) or something like that?
 
Actually a balcony can work quite well.
We (rather bizarrely) have a large balcony off of the main bathroom.
Obviously it isn't somewhere you would sit with a coffee, but when the weather is good (we live in Switzerland - it's currently snowing) my daughter will often do piggy time on the balcony. She lays out a couple of blankets, puts out various boxes, hides and treats, and will happily take a book and beanbag and sit on the balcony with her pig. So that could be something to consider.

And I truly admire you for being honest and realistic.
So many people push ahead and think it will be fine, and end up with a tragedy.
You are clearly very committed to the welfare of all of your pets.
 
I'm new on here with guinea pigs, but have lots of experience with dogs, cats, bunnies and outdoor enclosures! One of my dogs could care less about our other animals, but the other is very eager to give them all some love and is crazy, hyper-focused on them. He thinks every living creature survives solely to be his best friend - one of our cats is actually his very best, rough-and-tumble friend after a very, very rocky start!

To get our dog to settle down around new bunnies, the new kitten (who's now 4 and his best bud), and now around the new guinea pigs, I first allowed him plenty of time around the cage while I was there to correct over-excited behavior. I'd keep visits short if the new animal was getting stressed as well - as stress and excitement decreased, visit duration increased. While we are hanging out, I'd spend time calmly talking to him and the new animal, letting him watch me interact with the other pet - trying to drill the idea into his head that these are new members of his family and nothing to get excited about. This is important - the dog being there wasn't about letting him check out the animal or have a meet and greet like a bonding session. It was about watching me interact with it and getting comfortable with its general presence in our home.

Equally important when it comes to training: I did NOT let him around the cage/in the room when I was not around. This is critical when training dogs: if they enjoy doing something naughty, it provides all the reward they need to do it again and makes it significantly more difficult to train it out of them!

Once he calms down enough that I can trust him to be in the same room as the pet without me, then I set up a folding dog gate around the cage (even our kitten was temporarily raised in a big cat kennel, with a perimeter!). The critical thing here, again, is to make sure he doesn't get the pleasure of being close enough to do anything stupid that he found thoroughly thrilling!

We are in this phase now with the guinea pigs. The dog can't get within 3 feet of the hutch unless I open the gate and let him approach with me. Outside the gate, the dog generally just watches quietly and naps - if the guinea pigs start talking or running around, he might sit up and whine a little bit... but he's also starting to get bored and spending less time at the gate; walking past it without giving it attention, which is exactly what I want. When inside the gate with me, I'm giving a him a bit more time and freedom to say hi, especially as the guinea pigs are now comfortable enough to approach the hutch wire and sniff noses with him, and I'm rewarding him for staying calm.

My dog has been through this drill a number times, so this does the trick, but when he was younger, I used a water bottle and sprayed him in the face when he got too excited - no verbal commands. It's the humane way to distract them and create a negative association with a behavior.

Patience and safety are key - don't move to the next phase too quickly. Create fully secure, temporary set-ups for each phase. Wait until they are totally calm for several days or a week in one phase before you move to the next. With an adult dog, I can get through it in 3-4 weeks. With a puppy, it will be months - and you will likely be more successful if you're also working on all-around puppy training.

Anyway - hopefully something here helps! It's pretty natural that the puppy is too interested to start off - research good training practices, enroll in puppy training, and keep at it for a bit. Keep the puppy on a leash, which is something I also did with our dog until I felt he was calm enough/old enough to trust that things wouldn't get out of hand and he would immediately follow my commands. If you have a trainer, then you'll also have that professional guidance to deal with your unique situation as it unfolds. Our dogs, cats and rabbits all get along great - to the extent that the dogs can go into the rabbit enclosure with me and they'll all calmly wander and say hi while I go about chores. Some dogs just want to eat all small critters, though - if you exhaust all training ideas and it still doesn't work out, then that's what you'll have to problem solve. I don't think you're there yet, though.

Regarding setup - I use the folding dog playpen for my enclosure fencing (come in various heights; just as good at keeping dogs out as keeping them in!). I zip-tie them to t-posts hammered into the ground. I found sandwiching a child safety gate between cinder blocks a great way to add an easy open, locking gate. I like that the setup is very solid and secure, nice looking, and fairly easy to take down or reconfigure. You could also skip the t-posts and baby gate - setting up just the folding enclosure takes seconds, as long as you think having it loose will be safe for your use. There are also lots of other grazing enclosures online to order or DIY. A semi-permanent enclosure could include some of the grassy area that would then also be protected from dog pee. Our enclosure doesn't have any grass, so I gated off a small section of lawn in the back corner as a no-dog zone so I can bring handfuls of grass to our babies, which they love!

Regarding the fall-out: The guides on this forum are very informative and have sections on bonding and fall-outs, including what to do with your now single piggies, or if re-bonding is an option. That might be a good place to start while you wait for a specific response on that. Those guides are playing a huge role in our evolving enclosure set-up.
 
Actually a balcony can work quite well.
We (rather bizarrely) have a large balcony off of the main bathroom.
Obviously it isn't somewhere you would sit with a coffee, but when the weather is good (we live in Switzerland - it's currently snowing) my daughter will often do piggy time on the balcony. She lays out a couple of blankets, puts out various boxes, hides and treats, and will happily take a book and beanbag and sit on the balcony with her pig. So that could be something to consider.

And I truly admire you for being honest and realistic.
So many people push ahead and think it will be fine, and end up with a tragedy.
You are clearly very committed to the welfare of all of your pets.
❤️ I think the balcony idea is absolutely doable.

Thank you for your kind words😘♥️🤗! We feel a bit bad because obviously they were the kings of our household and had unlimited access to everything and tons of attention and now we are trying to find the way around it. It will be OK, it is just an adjustment period for everyone in the household I guess.
 
I'm new on here with guinea pigs, but have lots of experience with dogs, cats, bunnies and outdoor enclosures! One of my dogs could care less about our other animals, but the other is very eager to give them all some love and is crazy, hyper-focused on them. He thinks every living creature survives solely to be his best friend - one of our cats is actually his very best, rough-and-tumble friend after a very, very rocky start!

To get our dog to settle down around new bunnies, the new kitten (who's now 4 and his best bud), and now around the new guinea pigs, I first allowed him plenty of time around the cage while I was there to correct over-excited behavior. I'd keep visits short if the new animal was getting stressed as well - as stress and excitement decreased, visit duration increased. While we are hanging out, I'd spend time calmly talking to him and the new animal, letting him watch me interact with the other pet - trying to drill the idea into his head that these are new members of his family and nothing to get excited about. This is important - the dog being there wasn't about letting him check out the animal or have a meet and greet like a bonding session. It was about watching me interact with it and getting comfortable with its general presence in our home.

Equally important when it comes to training: I did NOT let him around the cage/in the room when I was not around. This is critical when training dogs: if they enjoy doing something naughty, it provides all the reward they need to do it again and makes it significantly more difficult to train it out of them!

Once he calms down enough that I can trust him to be in the same room as the pet without me, then I set up a folding dog gate around the cage (even our kitten was temporarily raised in a big cat kennel, with a perimeter!). The critical thing here, again, is to make sure he doesn't get the pleasure of being close enough to do anything stupid that he found thoroughly thrilling!

We are in this phase now with the guinea pigs. The dog can't get within 3 feet of the hutch unless I open the gate and let him approach with me. Outside the gate, the dog generally just watches quietly and naps - if the guinea pigs start talking or running around, he might sit up and whine a little bit... but he's also starting to get bored and spending less time at the gate; walking past it without giving it attention, which is exactly what I want. When inside the gate with me, I'm giving a him a bit more time and freedom to say hi, especially as the guinea pigs are now comfortable enough to approach the hutch wire and sniff noses with him, and I'm rewarding him for staying calm.

My dog has been through this drill a number times, so this does the trick, but when he was younger, I used a water bottle and sprayed him in the face when he got too excited - no verbal commands. It's the humane way to distract them and create a negative association with a behavior.

Patience and safety are key - don't move to the next phase too quickly. Create fully secure, temporary set-ups for each phase. Wait until they are totally calm for several days or a week in one phase before you move to the next. With an adult dog, I can get through it in 3-4 weeks. With a puppy, it will be months - and you will likely be more successful if you're also working on all-around puppy training.

Anyway - hopefully something here helps! It's pretty natural that the puppy is too interested to start off - research good training practices, enroll in puppy training, and keep at it for a bit. Keep the puppy on a leash, which is something I also did with our dog until I felt he was calm enough/old enough to trust that things wouldn't get out of hand and he would immediately follow my commands. If you have a trainer, then you'll also have that professional guidance to deal with your unique situation as it unfolds. Our dogs, cats and rabbits all get along great - to the extent that the dogs can go into the rabbit enclosure with me and they'll all calmly wander and say hi while I go about chores. Some dogs just want to eat all small critters, though - if you exhaust all training ideas and it still doesn't work out, then that's what you'll have to problem solve. I don't think you're there yet, though.

Regarding setup - I use the folding dog playpen for my enclosure fencing (come in various heights; just as good at keeping dogs out as keeping them in!). I zip-tie them to t-posts hammered into the ground. I found sandwiching a child safety gate between cinder blocks a great way to add an easy open, locking gate. I like that the setup is very solid and secure, nice looking, and fairly easy to take down or reconfigure. You could also skip the t-posts and baby gate - setting up just the folding enclosure takes seconds, as long as you think having it loose will be safe for your use. There are also lots of other grazing enclosures online to order or DIY. A semi-permanent enclosure could include some of the grassy area that would then also be protected from dog pee. Our enclosure doesn't have any grass, so I gated off a small section of lawn in the back corner as a no-dog zone so I can bring handfuls of grass to our babies, which they love!

Regarding the fall-out: The guides on this forum are very informative and have sections on bonding and fall-outs, including what to do with your now single piggies, or if re-bonding is an option. That might be a good place to start while you wait for a specific response on that. Those guides are playing a huge role in our evolving enclosure set-up.
Thank you so much for taking the time to write this! This is so helpful🤗.

She has zero interest in them when they are in their cage inside, it is a lifted C&C cage with a lid (tons of zip ties on it). They can run around, make noises and she does not care. She sniffs around the cage but I do not think she really gets what it is inside.

I had one of the piggies in my arms and no reaction at all. I have her in my arms and we say good morning to piggies (as we always do after we get up) and no reaction. It was only when they were on the grass and they saw her and started running. Then she wanted to go after. It was more of a reflex I think to play than to hunt. She got excited and then it was hard to make her go past the cage, I tried several times to keep her calm and to walk pass by.

She didn't insist long though, and I could keep the cage outside while she was sitting on the sofa outdoor with us without a problem. So obviously there was no that much focus on them.

She also does not run after the birds, just watches them as they walk close by on the grass. I cannot say that for cats, I got shocked when she started chasing the neighbor's cat and I could not stop her and she kept going back after it.

When she came to our house the first time I intentionally wore a T shirt full of guinea pig smell, I do not know if it helps, but I tried to get her used to that smell and connect it with me.

I will do as you say, maybe insist a few months that she is well behaved around the cage and see how that goes.

Yes, I followed that guide on piggies fighting and got tons of great advice here too when Donuts was going though the teenage hormonal spike. I kept trying for 3 months and they were on and off, Buckets got chased and scratched a few times, nothing serious. But now the worst has happened. One morning Donuts attacked him so badly that he was bleeding from his ear and several places on his bum. It was terrible, I felt awful for not separating the earlier. No way back from here now. Now they live next to each other. It was a hard adjustment for Donuts as he keeps trying to bite through the panel, but Buckets seems way less afraid and happier in general.

Thank you again! 💗
 
The chase instinct after the animal runs is exactly why I wouldn't trust the one dog around the bunnies unattended! The cat is funny though - literally comes tearing past him to initiate the chase, then flips on her back, he pounces on her, play chews her up, it's hilarious. If I stop him, thinking it's getting too rough, they both just turn and stare at me, like, "why are you interrupting our game?" The cat has no interest to get away!

Of course bunnies and guinea pigs will never want to play like that, so it's all about preventing the chase. Sounds like your pup has a great temperament, but after having a ball with that one chase, you're having to take a few steps back and train that out of her. This isn't a bad or hopeless place to be, and your puppy may chill out more with age. Our other dog has no interest in chasing.

Now that I think about it - I actually trained the chase instinct out of my dog 20-some years ago - and a border collie to boot! She went hiking with me and would pull at any critter that bolted under a bush. I wanted to roller blade with her - we had a great, paved nature trail for that in my town - but I couldn't do it if she'd pull me off balance going after critters. I started going on hikes with the spray bottle and treats and made a serious go at getting her to follow my commands and eventually ignore the situation. We were roller blading in no time - that dog just loved running that trail at high speeds by my side!

My first pair of bunnies had a falling out, but lived happily side-by-side. They'd even nap right next to each other where they could have skin contact through the bars. I either had separate outside enclosure time or used extra dog panels to split the enclosure in half for them to be out together. I tried re-bonding once after months of the pleasant, side-by-side situation, but it was obviously a no-go right away. Now that I have a pair of bunnies with a strong bond, the quality of life is significantly better. In hindsight, maybe I should've tried bonding them with other bunnies, even if it meant rehoming one to its new pairing so that I still had just the one pair. I guess this is how people suddenly find themselves with multiple guinea pig herds!
 
Funny how it is different with cats. I agree with you, it is better not to risk it. She obviously would do something, if given the chance.

Impressive how you handled it to be able to roller blade!

After we realized that Donuts and Buckets will never be able to live together again, the though of finding them friends hit me at first, but honestly I do not think I have the capacity to do that right now with the new puppy in the house. I was thinking what kind of life is this, if you are literally spending it with an enemy, but then I made a joke that for some that is just called marriage :lol!:. Joke aside, we could never give up one of them. They are super attached to us and we to them. Donuts is like a little puppy that jumps on top of his house to get the cuddles, Buckets is way to gentle and shy to be able to get an owner that would not handle him carefully. But I agree, there is not much quality to life this way. Still better than living in a small cage not being loved or getting neglected I guess 😕.
 
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