Specialist Salmonella Infection

[CubbyWolf46]

I found out from tests my doctor did that I recently had a bout of salmonella, so I am treating myself for that at the moment with antibiotics because it is very resistant. My boy Salem (4 months) started getting diarrhea the past two days and at first I thought it was just from the day I put them outside to eat fresh grass (they are not used to fresh, they have always eaten hay) but then I realized it could be salmonella so I went to the vet and unfortunately, my boy is infected too so he gave me some antibiotics for him as well. I have been doing a thorough cleaning of their cage twice this week alone and then all soiled items are being hand washed (everything is washed in mass amounts of vinegar) but somehow I have re-infected myself. Now I am about to go through the worst symptoms again and trust me it is scary.. the chills I got the first time around with the stomach cramps made me want a bullet to the head. So I can only imagine what my poor boy has been going through.

I have no idea who infected who first, whether I got it from him or he got it from me. I am already an OCD hand washer (my mum complains about how much hand soap we go through because of my constant hand washing after every activity) and this infection has just made my germ phobia 100x worse.

My questions are, how do I avoid re-infection?
I have been cleaning all soiled items with vinegar and hand washing after contact every single time. So I have no idea how I have re-infected myself.

How long before I can put my boys back in the same cage?
My other boy was showing no symptoms at all but seems very worried for Salem and so to avoid stress I put Salem in a washing basket inside the cage so Argo can have casual contact with him through the slits. They talk through the "wall" and curl up next to each other on each side.

How do I stop Salem from re-infecting himself?
He is still trying to eat his own poop even with bad diarrhea and at times chews and licks at himself to get it out of his fur, I have given him baths when he has gotten too soiled but I cant keep doing it all the time can I? I check his bedding every hour or so and if it is soiled I replace it and if he is too soiled I wash him. He has in his basket a towel to sleep on, a bowl of water, a sock full of hay and some pellet mix only.

I have been keeping him hydrated with electrolytes and extra vitamins because I am scared to give him veggies while he has diarrhea, I also give him pro-biotics an hour or so after his antibiotics to help his gut. He is starting to get his appetite back and eating alright although he wont take no for an answer about the veggies.. he squeals at me for veggies every time he hears the fridge door open and it makes me feel so sad

Please be gentle with me on comments, I am doing the best I can at the moment and it's hard to take care of my baby when I am also sick (again). Soon I will be unable to get out of bed for a while and I will just have to check on him in the morning.

Just to let you know of his current condition, his diarrhea has cleared up quite a bit, he hasn't soiled his bedding in at least 4 hours and his appetite is ok, he is eating his hay slowly but surely and a little bit of pellets, I have only seen him sip at the water once so far today but I have been busy around the house so he may have had more. He has been lying around exhausted all day but after the electrolytes and vitamins he seemed to perk up a lot and now is attempting to jump out of the basket back into his cage with Argo. I'm not sure yet if he is infectious still. I might have to give it a few more days. Poor guy just wants his buddy to snuggle.

 

[Wiebke]

I am very sorry for your problems; what a nightmare for you, especially as salmonella is seriously debilitating!

You may find our tips for how to best deal with very infectious ringworm infections helpful when it comes to disinfecting, washing and quarantine to prevent a re-infection. https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/ringworm-hygiene-and-pictures.115402/

Please offer your boy boiled, cooled water via syringe, as much as he will take. Weigh him daily at the same time in the feeding cycle to make sure that he is eating enough (and if necessary hand feed him). Ideally, you use disposible gloves when handling him to make sure that he is OK until you are sure that you are both safe. The incubation period for salmonella is 12-72 hours, so you will have to wait at least 4 days until all acute symptoms have safely disappeared. Best give your boy a bath now and again before you put him back with his friend at the end of the quarantine to make sure that he is not carrying anything across caked to his fur across after having had diarrhea.
Guinea pig make two varieties of poops. One they need to eat in order to redigest fibre and keep going. it is actually a very good sign that Salem is still doing it, as that means that his guts are working and he has got a will to live and recover.
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/complete-hand-feeding-guide.115359/

Here are our tips for re-introducing boars:
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/introducing-and-re-introducing-guinea-pigs.38562/

 

[CubbyWolf46]

Thank-you so much!

I've had to stay home for the past couple of weeks and only left the house when necessary for scripts, doctors, vets or food (Yes weeks - I had it last week, he got it at the beginning of this week and I just got it again). I have tried to isolate us as much as possible and I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how we got it in the first place. I am trying not to get excited by him seeming to be getting better because of my previous experience with guinea pigs and illness. They really are the most fragile animals and get sick so easily. I try so hard to keep their environment sterile but I guess it's just not enough.

I am so very thankful for your reply. Not going so well tonight, the onset is the worst so I am definitely about to go to bed. I will let you know how it goes.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank-you so much!

I've had to stay home for the past couple of weeks and only left the house when necessary for scripts, doctors, vets or food (Yes weeks - I had it last week, he got it at the beginning of this week and I just got it again). I have tried to isolate us as much as possible and I have been racking my brain trying to figure out how we got it in the first place. I am trying not to get excited by him seeming to be getting better because of my previous experience with guinea pigs and illness. They really are the most fragile animals and get sick so easily. I try so hard to keep their environment sterile but I guess it's just not enough.

I am so very thankful for your reply. Not going so well tonight, the onset is the worst so I am definitely about to go to bed. I will let you know how it goes.

Wishing you all the bes and make sure that you take care of yourself well, toot! Salmonella can come with many things from not properly defrosted/cooked foods to egg shells or simply by using appliances that have been in contact with infected food or people.

I have found this link re. disinfecting against salmonella. Would it help you?
http://www.mnn.com/health/healthy-s...ctants-a-guide-to-killing-germs-the-right-way

@Pebble : Do you know which piggy-safe disinfectants are effective against salmonella?

 

[CubbyWolf46]

Salem is all better, his poops are back to normal, well semi-normal. They are nice and solid but a little bit pale. Myself however, I am not doing so well. This infection is proving very hard to eliminate and I am going to see my doctor again today or tomorrow to get re-tested but I am about 99% sure I still have it after the week of antibiotics. So tired -_-

I am trying to handle them as little as possible, using gloves to handle their food and cleaning their cage very obsessively. Salem is back with Argo now and they have never seemed happier.. there is another story there for another post about Argo I am about to write that should give you a chuckle, if not make you question whether we really are their slaves. I think Argo is attempting to teach his human to fetch.

Thank-you for all of your information. I think maybe it could have been the eggs in the pancake batter i licked or something, or maybe it's when salem gave me a kiss on the mouth.. yeah he did once.. it was cute and a little gross at the same time for the fact I know that he eats his own poop >_<

 

[Lilly]

Oh dear, didn't realise you had such a bad bout of salmonella, not once but twice. Hope you are getting better. I do find it odd that piggies could have succumbed to salmonella from people. Just don't understand how something like that happened.

 

[CubbyWolf46]

Well as I said, I'm not sure if he got it from me or I got it from him. Trust me, don't try to make sense of it.. I tried to figure it out too but apparently my OCD cleaning habits aren't enough to keep bacteria at bay. *sigh of exasperation*

 

[Teddybear22]

I'm sorry you're having to go through all this, it sounds terrible... Hope you and Salem will get well soon! Sending lots of healing vibes

 

[Lilly]

Sorry don't really understand. Salmonella is obtained from raw or undercooked meat. Not something a guinea pig eats.

 

[Wiebke]

I am very glad that poor little Salem is better! Just offer him plenty of fibre and he will hopefully be perfectly fins again soon!

I am however so sorry that you are having such a bad ride and I am keeping my fingers crossed that you can find an antibiotic that helps you!

@Lilly: Salmonella can also come in and on raw eggs.

 

[CubbyWolf46]

I was told that he could have gotten it from a number of sources, including vegetables grown or washed in water infected with salmonella.. so, make sure you wash your veggies thoroughly. Try googling guinea pig salmonella and it may help you understand a bit more. There are only a few illnesses that can be passed between humans and guinea pigs and unfortunately salmonella is one of them. That is why I can't figure out who had it first or what from, because there are too many variables in play.. could have been undercooked chicken, raw eggs or uncooked veg I ate or Salem could have gotten it from salmonella infected veg. I also could have gotten in from not washing my hands thoroughly enough after handling Salem if he already had it .. there are too many possibilities. To be honest I am looking towards eggs or veggies. My hand washing is pretty extreme.

 

[Wiebke]

I was told that he could have gotten it from a number of sources, including vegetables grown or washed in water infected with salmonella.. so, make sure you wash your veggies thoroughly. Try googling guinea pig salmonella and it may help you understand a bit more. There are only a few illnesses that can be passed between humans and guinea pigs and unfortunately salmonella is one of them. That is why I can't figure out who had it first or what from, because there are too many variables in play.. could have been undercooked chicken, raw eggs or uncooked veg I ate or Salem could have gotten it from salmonella infected veg. I also could have gotten in from not washing my hands thoroughly enough after handling Salem if he already had it .. there are too many possibilities. To be honest I am looking towards eggs or veggies. My hand washing is pretty extreme.

It is always extremely difficult to figure it out, unless you are part of a mass break-out at a festive occasion or a restaurant etc. when there is an official investigation.

 

[Pebble]

Very sorry you and Salem have both got this bug....as a travelling salesman eating out a lot, I've had a few bouts of Salmonella in my time - not every infection is accompanied by D & V and chills - (the first time I had it, I went for weeks without knowing I had it until one day I nearly fainted whilst driving).

The first thing to find out is which strain have you got? There are over 2000 different types of Salmonella. Knowing which one you have can help tell you where you caught it from and also if Salem has the same bug (you would need to get his poos cultured) if you haven't already . Has the bug cultured from you been tested for anitbiotic sensitivity? And if so what antibiotic have you (and Salem) been taking?

Secondly salmonella can be asymptomatic and is shed in the faeces of many wild and domestic animals including humans, birds, rodents reptiles, amphibians and farm animals. It is "caught" by consuming food that has been contaminated with infected faeces. In humans it is most likely to be caught from food that has been contaminated and then not cooked properly to kill the bugs ( besides the most common seafood or chicken this includes fresh veggies/salad - especially those fertilised with spray manure; eggs, un-pasteurised cheeses etc) So it may be that you will not be able to identify the source. Please also be aware that it often presents in guinea pigs without any diarhhoea - so unless your vet has tested Salem's poos and confirmed the presence of the same bug as you have got, it is still likely that the fresh green grass caused his symptoms and that he hasn't got the bug at all. Without confirmation from a culture your vets diagnosis is purely SPECULATIVE

Thirdly - the most important thing is to GET RID....especially given you think you have reinfected yourself.
a) it could be the abx you were given have not managed to eradicate the bug as it has resistance to that drug type. You may need a different durg so it is good you are being re-tested. I suggest you get Salem and Argo tested too - and if Argo has not been treated he could be carrying it..
b) I'm afraid that vinegar is not the most effective way of disinfecting and eradicating what is clearly quite a virulent bug. F10, Anigene,or Formula H are all animal disinfectants that should kill it - but a disinfectant is only effective if you allow plenty of contact time and ensure all dirt is removed that "protects" the bugs from the action of the the disinfectant (same applies to hand santisers which are mainly alcohol-based - you need to get right under the nails and allow plenty of contact time before rinsing off)

HTH - please come back if you have any further questions and if you can tell us what strain you had and what abx you have been taking that might help narrow down the possible source.

 

[CubbyWolf46]

Thanks Pebble,

I never asked what strain and my doctor never told me. The test results he showed me only confirmed I had it and not the strain (I kept a copy for my records). Salem and Argo have been checked out and they are both healthy now (Argo never even had it which was amazing seeing as they live in the same cage and I only separated them for a short time and they eat the same food, although Argo is picky and snobs certain veggies that Salem loves) once again, the vet only confirmed he had it. I have been using gloves, washing veggies thoroughly, cleaning the cage obsessively just in case. I, myself have a feeling that I was not re-infected but that the antibiotics didn't work. I am about to get re-tested to see if it is gone, but judging by my re-occurring symptoms I am guessing not. Salem was prescribed Bactrim, the vet I went to was not my usual exotic vet because I'm low on cash at the moment being sick myself so I had to go to a cheaper one, he was cleared but seeing as I haven't been cleared yet I am taking all precautions just in case. I was prescribed the same drug under a different name called Resprim Forte, my doctor told me there are some forms of Salmonella which are anti-biotic resistant and some that antibiotics can actually make it worse or stay in your system longer so it was my call whether to treat it or wait it out and see if it went away on its own. I am beginning to think my germ phobia pushed me towards the wrong decision. Anyway, if I still test positive this time I will ask my doctor to find out the strain, but I've been told outright that it's pretty much a wait and see thing.

I will find something stronger to clean their cage out with too, I am just scared of chemicals harming them, that's why I use vinegar but if it doesn't work too well I will definitely find another cleaning agent. I have never even heard of those cleaning agents before but I will look for them now.

Once again, thanks for the support and replies everyone!