Science select grain free

Adelle

Adult Guinea Pig
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Hello, I'm an old member that never posts on here anymore but just wanted to share my experience incase it helps anyone in a similar position!

I have two neutered sows, 4 year old Rowan and 4.5 year old Poppet. Both have had the odd sludgey bladder flare over the past 2 years, but nothing horrendous. They have eaten science select grain free for years with low calcium veggies.

Around 2 months ago Rowan became unwell. She was found to have a very inflammed bladder and was bloated. She was eventually put on the highest dose metacam for the bladder and gut stimulants for the bloat, as well as fibreplex and a new bladder supplement that had extra ingredients to the one she was already taking. I increased water intake , littered their home with hides and started a pet remedy plug in in their room to reduce stress- this can be a factor in bladder pigs.

Over the few months I was unable to reduce the metacam or the gut stimulants as Rowan remained bloated with a very sore bladder.

She has had test after test, several scans x-rays and even bloods. No stones and kidneys working well. She continued to lose weight began to have terrible thick sludge in her urine despite all my efforts.

In a last ditched attempt I took the girls off of pellets - removed the bowl from the cage and offered a teaspoon each before bed- 5 tiny pellets.

In less than a week rowan stopped producing all the horrible sludge, gained weight out of nowhere and is now completely gut stimulants free- with not a pop of gas in sight! They are now on an oxbow vitamin c supplement as Rowan doesn't eat pepper, to make sure they don't end up deficient.

I am making up a forage from hop to forage, consisting of tummy soothing and bladder inflammation easing flowers and herbs which will become their pellet replacement. I feel like giving them nutrients from another source is important with the lack of pellets, as their veg range is limited due to the bladders.

I am emailing science select today to ask if their ingredients have changed , as this is a new batch they have been on recently. It is now 100% clear these where the problem, despite eating the same food for years.

If it helps one other person struggling with bladders and bloat out of the blue then it's worth it !

Their cute faces for tax.. petite poppet (brown) and big momma Rowan ( lilac and red)

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I am sorry to hear she has been unwell but glad she is now doing better!
How much pellets were you giving them before?
 
I am sorry to hear she has been unwell but glad she is now doing better!
How much pellets were you giving them before?
Thank you! They where never massive pellet eats so I just let them free eat pellets- they have done this for years and they where fine. They have became extra vocal now because I think they're shouting at me haha! But with veg twice a day, their oxbow vit c tab and their teaspoon of pellets before bed, they probably feel like they're getting more "treats" as the human brings goodies 4 times a day instead of 2 !
 
I’m glad you’ve found a balance now.
Even the low calcium pellets contain a lot of calcium. Do you live in a hard water area, do you filter their drinking water? Pellets and hard water contain more calcium than some high calcium veg so it is easy for them to be taking in too much calcium.
I live in a hard water area, filter their water, keep high calcium veg to a minimum and I feed my two science selective grain free but like yours, they only get a few pellets per day and some days I don’t give pellets at all (and of course unlimited hay is available there!). I’m hoping it’s enough to keep bladder issues at bay!
 
I’m glad you’ve found a balance now.
Even the low calcium pellets contain a lot of calcium. Do you live in a hard water area, do you filter their drinking water? Pellets and hard water contain more calcium than some high calcium veg so it is easy for them to be taking in too much calcium.
I live in a hard water area, filter their water, keep high calcium veg to a minimum and I feed my two science selective grain free but like yours, they only get a few pellets per day and some days I don’t give pellets at all (and of course unlimited hay is available there!). I’m hoping it’s enough to keep bladder issues at bay!
Yes filtered water from the Brita filter jug in their bottles and on their veg. I'm not in a hard water area but do it for good measure ! Unfortunately I'm pretty experienced in the bladder issue department, particularly when my last two old girls (8.5 & 9) who had heart failure and arthritis ontop of troublesome bladders but needed the pellets for the calories. I'm hoping that if my remaining ladies are lucky enough to reach old age that their systems will be used to a limited pellet diet and I shouldn't have the same issues as before !
 
I must admit, I have seen similar when using these pellets. I initially swapped to them from harringtons after reading they were good for bladder pigs but noticed quite an increase in sludge! I now no longer feed any commercial pig pellets, instead opting for a 100% grass pellet soaked in water with some wheat bran to up the phosphorus level a bit to a more suited guinea pig ratio. The companies nutritionist has said the vitamin C levels in these would be comparable to fresh grass which is reassuring.
I think diets for piggies may be becoming a bit too rich for them, pellets are quite nutrient dense considering they should mostly be getting hay.

It's nice to see you back again by the way!
 
Good to see you again @Adelle - sorry you’ve been having problems.
Glad to hear all is well.
Mine love their Science Selective grain free pellets but I make sure they don’t have too many.
I may reduce this even more just to be safe.
Thanks for sharing the story
 
Hi, i swapped all my piggies onto those pellets as soon as they came out. Frankie developed bladder stones when he'd previously had no issues they operated but he sadly died 😭. I was also seeing a lot of calcium deposits on the fleece when there had been none previously, id changed nothing else apart from the pellets. The rest of them all passed away within a quick succession from frankie, however I'm not sure if this was bad luck as they were older ones at the time. Ive no scientific evidence but ive always blamed those pellets, i feel like the calcium phosphorus ratio is wrong or something. Now i feed Burgess oregano and blackcurrant and have had no further issues.
 
I must admit, I have seen similar when using these pellets. I initially swapped to them from harringtons after reading they were good for bladder pigs but noticed quite an increase in sludge! I now no longer feed any commercial pig pellets, instead opting for a 100% grass pellet soaked in water with some wheat bran to up the phosphorus level a bit to a more suited guinea pig ratio. The companies nutritionist has said the vitamin C levels in these would be comparable to fresh grass which is reassuring.
I think diets for piggies may be becoming a bit too rich for them, pellets are quite nutrient dense considering they should mostly be getting hay.

It's nice to see you back again by the way!
Interesting! What grass pellets are you feeding ? I'm so pleased she's doing well I'm so scared to feed her anything new, even the forage that's not arrived yet! It was always hard finding a balancing act with pellet amounts and types with my oldies and their bladders but I found harringtons suited them the best, but poppet and Rowan ate ss grain free at that time as it suited them fine and the harringtons didn't ! No idea why it's became an issue all of a sudden but so glad I figured it out. Would've been ideal before the 300 quid on vet bills but hey ho !
 
Good to see you again @Adelle - sorry you’ve been having problems.
Glad to hear all is well.
Mine love their Science Selective grain free pellets but I make sure they don’t have too many.
I may reduce this even more just to be safe.
Thanks for sharing the story
They're all so different and these two never had issues before. At least if you have any problems you can try the above ! Hope you're well xx
 
Hi, i swapped all my piggies onto those pellets as soon as they came out. Frankie developed bladder stones when he'd previously had no issues they operated but he sadly died 😭. I was also seeing a lot of calcium deposits on the fleece when there had been none previously, id changed nothing else apart from the pellets. The rest of them all passed away within a quick succession from frankie, however I'm not sure if this was bad luck as they were older ones at the time. Ive no scientific evidence but ive always blamed those pellets, i feel like the calcium phosphorus ratio is wrong or something. Now i feed Burgess oregano and blackcurrant and have had no further issues.
I'm so sorry to hear that, it's hard to try not let all the possibilities and reasons go around in your head. The Burgess blackcurrant and mint ones where what I fed way way back when I first had piggies, but changed once the bladder issues hit. With my girls , they only developed bladder issues when they developed ovarian cysts, and the bladder issues remain after neutering. 6 out of 6 girls I've ever had developed ovarian cysts and some with diseased uterus' along with it. 5 of 6 of those girls developed bladder issues at the same time or shortly afterwards. My vets in agreement there's some kind of link, the only boy I ever had never had a bladder issue in his life !
 
Interesting! What grass pellets are you feeding ? I'm so pleased she's doing well I'm so scared to feed her anything new, even the forage that's not arrived yet! It was always hard finding a balancing act with pellet amounts and types with my oldies and their bladders but I found harringtons suited them the best, but poppet and Rowan ate ss grain free at that time as it suited them fine and the harringtons didn't ! No idea why it's became an issue all of a sudden but so glad I figured it out. Would've been ideal before the 300 quid on vet bills but hey ho !

Currently they're getting Simple Systems red bag grass pellets, they also do a Timothy version in a blue bag but I'm allergic so can't use those, but they are lower in calcium. They are for horses but they are 100% grass nothing added so that doesn't really make a difference, it's just a bulk bag. They're identical in size, shape and smell to the ones I used to get from Galens Garden which would probably be better for small amounts of piggies but with 14 of them, buying their food in 20kg bags works out better for me personally.
I've found them to do wonders for my pigs, Ebony has IC, Leonard had bladder stone surgery back in October due to his Osteodystrophy, he was expected to get more but so far so good since switching to these pellets. Apart from being plagued with ovarian cysts and spaying, everyone has been the healthiest they've ever been since swapping. They've even helped with the muscle atrophy Leonard and Shelly had from their OD.
 
Currently they're getting Simple Systems red bag grass pellets, they also do a Timothy version in a blue bag but I'm allergic so can't use those, but they are lower in calcium. They are for horses but they are 100% grass nothing added so that doesn't really make a difference, it's just a bulk bag. They're identical in size, shape and smell to the ones I used to get from Galens Garden which would probably be better for small amounts of piggies but with 14 of them, buying their food in 20kg bags works out better for me personally.
I've found them to do wonders for my pigs, Ebony has IC, Leonard had bladder stone surgery back in October due to his Osteodystrophy, he was expected to get more but so far so good since switching to these pellets. Apart from being plagued with ovarian cysts and spaying, everyone has been the healthiest they've ever been since swapping. They've even helped with the muscle atrophy Leonard and Shelly had from their OD.
I'm going to look at galens garden and the one u mentioned out of curiosity! I'm so glad Leonard is doing well bless him. I hear u on the ovarian cysts.. we have a 100% cystic ovary rate here ! How is ebony's bladder and weight since switching ?
 
I'm going to look at galens garden and the one u mentioned out of curiosity! I'm so glad Leonard is doing well bless him. I hear u on the ovarian cysts.. we have a 100% cystic ovary rate here ! How is ebony's bladder and weight since switching ?

It's scary how many seem to develop them isn't it! Our Panda needs to be seen in the next week or so, she will be our 5th spay since September! Luckily they seem to be getting them while young, when surgery is slightly less terrifying for me.
Ebonys weight on the scales has stayed pretty much stable, however she's gone from being a little flabby to being much more muscular, as have all of them, I was expecting some weight loss but it has evened out quite well as they've lost fat and gained muscle mass. Her flare ups are less frequent and easily solved with upping her fluids instead of reaching for the metacam. She did recently have a bit of a bad one, her first since her spay a couple of months ago, but we introduced a new pig to her herd which was quite stressful so it was kind of expected.
 
I have my boys on these pellets and I've not had any problems yet but they are both still quite young. I feed a bit more than one tablespoon per pig per day because I hand feed them as treats throughout the day. I will be sure to bare this in mind if I have any problems in future.
 
I have my boys on these pellets and I've not had any problems yet but they are both still quite young. I feed a bit more than one tablespoon per pig per day because I hand feed them as treats throughout the day. I will be sure to bare this in mind if I have any problems in future.

Age isn’t going to be a factor as such, youngsters can still encounter bladder problems. I would recommend that you cut back on them, still handfeed as treat but ensure you aren’t overfeeding them (underfeeding pellets would be best). Changes to the diet can take a while to filter through and have an effect, so once you notice a problem, changing habits then will not have an Immediate effect and It’s easier to work to prevent a problem, than it is to solve them afterwards
 
I had nothing but bladder problems when my pigs were on these pellets. When Rusty had his stone in January my vet advised to stop feeding them and try Burgess. Although not grain free they apparently have a better balance of minerals.
 
We feed these pellets but in a very strictly limited way, especially after we had a thread on here where we were looking up how much calcium is in high calcium veggies- even these lower calcium pellets contain 4x as much calcium as high calcium veg like spinach or parsley! So its 12 pellets each per meal for my piggies, and if its a spinach scatter feeding day I skip the pellets altogether!
 
I feed a mix of these two pellets. I feed 30g a day between 2 piggies. Are the science selective pellets the ones people have had issues with? I looked and it doesn't say grain free. However I noticed it says alfalfa meal in the ingredients and I'm pretty sure adult piggies shouldn't have alfalfa. I've been feeding these pellets since I got them at the end of February and I'm now worried I shouldn't be. What do you think?

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I feed a mix of these two pellets. I feed 30g a day between 2 piggies. Are the science selective pellets the ones people have had issues with? I looked and it doesn't say grain free. However I noticed it says alfalfa meal in the ingredients and I'm pretty sure adult piggies shouldn't have alfalfa. I've been feeding these pellets since I got them at the end of February and I'm now worried I shouldn't be. What do you think?

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The science selective ones in the pic are not the grain free version. The grain free version is a lighter purple pack and does say grain free. Alfalfa is high in calcium so I’d avoid if possible. Don’t panic though.

15g per pig is a little on the high side. One tablespoon (the recommended amount) of the science selective weighs, just 5-6g
 
The vet I spoke to in January said a low calcium diet is the wrong way to go. Don't feed bucket loads of high calcium food but be very careful about cutting it out too much. Oxalates are the baddy for causing stones and oxalates need calcium to leave the body as they bind to it. She said to feed a low oxalate diet, so no spinach, sweet potato, celery, strawberry, beans, pellets containing soya, seeds etc. Feed mostly hay, grass and green leaf veg. I wish someone would do some proper research into guinea pigs and their stones.
 
The science selective ones in the pic are not the grain free version. The grain free version is a lighter purple pack and does say grain free. Alfalfa is high in calcium so I’d avoid if possible. Don’t panic though.

15g per pig is a little on the high side. One tablespoon (the recommended amount) of the science selective weighs, just 5-6g
I think I'll just feed the other pellets from now on. Will having alfalfa pellets for that long be a problem? My mum just bought a bag of those science selective pellets unfortunately. I'd really rather not feed them now I know I shouldn't so I'm not sure what to do with them now. I don't think my mum would be happy if I didn't feed them at all since we have a whole bag though. What should I do?
I'll also reduce their pellet portions again so thank you for pointing that out too.
 
I think I'll just feed the other pellets from now on. Will having alfalfa pellets for that long be a problem? My mum just bought a bag of those science selective pellets unfortunately. I'd really rather not feed them now I know I shouldn't so I'm not sure what to do with them now. I don't think my mum would be happy if I didn't feed them at all since we have a whole bag though. What should I do?
I'll also reduce their pellet portions again so thank you for pointing that out too.

Please don’t worry too much. What you do with them is up to you - you could still feed them but cut the portion size right down, that in itself will be a good thing to do. You could still mix them so they get a few pellets from one pack and a few from the other
 
@Eddie & Elvis feeding those pellets won't be a problem they are considered by many to be one of the better ones. If you want to change them for grain free I would do it slowly anyway so the piggies get used to something different. Introduce new pellets by mixing with the old ones. It's really more important not to feed too many of any pellet, no more than one tablespoon per piggie per day.
 
I'll cut down the portion to the recommended 5-6g each and feed a few science selective along with the other grass based ones. That way they won't have too much alfalfa but I'll still slowly get through them. I won't be buying them again though! I'll make sure to check if they are grass based next time. Thanks everyone 😊

Sorry for kind of taking over this thread by the way!
 
Age isn’t going to be a factor as such, youngsters can still encounter bladder problems. I would recommend that you cut back on them, still handfeed as treat but ensure you aren’t overfeeding them (underfeeding pellets would be best). Changes to the diet can take a while to filter through and have an effect, so once you notice a problem, changing habits then will not have an Immediate effect and It’s easier to work to prevent a problem, than it is to solve them afterwards

I just had a proper look at how much 2 tbs actually is and I'm definitely not overfeeding as much as I thought and I probably slightly underfeed most days.
 
The vet I spoke to in January said a low calcium diet is the wrong way to go. Don't feed bucket loads of high calcium food but be very careful about cutting it out too much. Oxalates are the baddy for causing stones and oxalates need calcium to leave the body as they bind to it. She said to feed a low oxalate diet, so no spinach, sweet potato, celery, strawberry, beans, pellets containing soya, seeds etc. Feed mostly hay, grass and green leaf veg. I wish someone would do some proper research into guinea pigs and their stones.
I wish there was more research too.
 
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