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Senior pig -please help

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Wildflower86

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
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In September, I made to the heart wrenching phone call to put my senior guinea pig to sleep. She feels very skinny and at 8 and half years old I didn't think she would pull the dental (gas) or the procedure, force feeding etc. (The vets in my area both would have used GA.) Well, when my vet see her and he said she had a bit more time and he was confident he could do her teeth with a whiff of gas. Well, he sedated her and couldn't see any major problems with her teeth. So instead did bloods and xrays. Still not eating, I decided not to give up and I took her to Northampton and she was lucky to see Simon and he did her dental. There was 2 teeth that he sorted. When we was there he spotted a bladder stone and was able to remove it for her... She started eating and squeaking again - all was going well for a few days.... She then had uti, had meds, got another uti, had meds and xrays (no more stones). And now she has another ....tho she doesnt squeak when peeing.... vets are trying another antibiotic (septrin) which isnt agreeing with her gut....so ive stopped it today....and poos are ok....I wonder if she has IC....Well she is continuing to loose weight and I just cannot get her to gain it despite her eating well. She is eating everything. But any tips to help gain? I've got oats... and any exoctic vets in east Angila /Cambridge u can recommend? Could it be parasites or something? Vets are saying she is old /age related...but if that was the case I would have thought something would show up on her blood test and I've been told there is nothing untoward on them. Its like a domino effect with her being poorly and i am finding this exhausting emotionally ... She must be so fed up with this all too-i just want to make things better for her. Anyone been through similar? Any words of advice would be most welcome 🙏
 
I'm sorry! I would find that exhausting emotionally as well.

I thought elderly piggies automatically lost weight bit by bit without having anything specific wrong with them?

Hope somebody with more knowledge gets back to you.
 
It could be worth supplementing her food intake with some critical care in a syringe or a bowl
People on here often give oats not sure if soaked or what
I use readigrass to help maintain my older piggy’s weight - he’s stable and eating everything
Geoff is nearly 6
I’m sure someone with more experience will be along to help you
 
Wildflower86 said:
In September, I made to the heart wrenching phone call to put my senior guinea pig to sleep. She feels very skinny and at 8 and half years old I didn't think she would pull the dental (gas) or the procedure, force feeding etc. (The vets in my area both would have used GA.) Well, when my vet see her and he said she had a bit more time and he was confident he could do her teeth with a whiff of gas. Well, he sedated her and couldn't see any major problems with her teeth. So instead did bloods and xrays. Still not eating, I decided not to give up and I took her to Northampton and she was lucky to see Simon and he did her dental. There was 2 teeth that he sorted. When we was there he spotted a bladder stone and was able to remove it for her... She started eating and squeaking again - all was going well for a few days.... She then had uti, had meds, got another uti, had meds and xrays (no more stones). And now she has another ....tho she doesnt squeak when peeing.... vets are trying another antibiotic (septrin) which isnt agreeing with her gut....so ive stopped it today....and poos are ok....I wonder if she has IC....Well she is continuing to loose weight and I just cannot get her to gain it despite her eating well. She is eating everything. But any tips to help gain? I've got oats... and any exoctic vets in east Angila /Cambridge u can recommend? Could it be parasites or something? Vets are saying she is old /age related...but if that was the case I would have thought something would show up on her blood test and I've been told there is nothing untoward on them. Its like a domino effect with her being poorly and i am finding this exhausting emotionally ... She must be so fed up with this all too-i just want to make things better for her. Anyone been through similar? Any words of advice would be most welcome 🙏
Click to expand...

Hi and welcome

I am very sorry. Sadly, with guinea pigs it can be very difficult to pin down what exactly is going on. :(

Unfortunately, it is very difficult to near impossible to put weight back on elderlies since their metabolism is generally no longer working as well and is slowing down so extra calories tend to no longer stick. You see the same in human elderlies over 80 years as well.

It is not at all uncommon to see old piggies having an extremely good appetite and eating more because their body is slowing down and the nutrient absorption/processing is becoming less and less efficient.

Most oldies of that age are often bags of skin and bone but some have such a will to live that they can hang on for a surprising amount of time while for others the end comes sooner when their metabolism packs in, the immune system or one of the major organs gives. It is the normal ageing process which you cannot stop. You can never predict that. Guinea pigs are small animals with a much faster metabolism; so when the end comes it also happens in fast forward compared to human oldies. :(

8 years is a very good age for a pet piggy but that is no consolation right now and it doesn't make it any easier. :(
Caring for Older Piggies and Facing the End - A practical and supportive information collection

HUGS
 
Thank you all so much for replying. Yes I guess when i think about it she has lost her weight gradually. But I think the utis have not helped, its dipping low again. Wheekallweek- yes one of the vets has said she has no muscle at all :( Thanks for the suggestions I'll have to get some readigrass. She loves the wet pellets.
I'm just not sure whether to get more testing done. (Non invasive-stools, urine etc).
 
Wiebke said:
Hi and welcome

I am very sorry. Sadly, with guinea pigs it can be very difficult to pin down what exactly is going on. :(

Unfortunately, it is very difficult to near impossible to put weight back on elderlies since their metabolism is generally no longer working as well and is slowing down so extra calories tend to no longer stick. You see the same in human elderlies over 80 years as well.

It is not at all uncommon to see old piggies having an extremely good appetite and eating more because their body is slowing down and the nutrient absorption/processing is becoming less and less efficient.

Most oldies of that age are often bags of skin and bone but some have such a will to live that they can hang on for a surprising amount of time while for others the end comes sooner when their metabolism packs in, the immune system or one of the major organs gives. It is the normal ageing process which you cannot stop. You can never predict that. Guinea pigs are small animals with a much faster metabolism; so when the end comes it also happens in fast forward compared to human oldies. :(

8 years is a very good age for a pet piggy but that is no consolation right now and it doesn't make it any easier. :(
Caring for Older Piggies and Facing the End - A practical and supportive information collection

HUGS
Click to expand...
 
Thank you Wiebke,
You don't realise how much this message has helped me 😢.
I'm just doubting everything and want it in black and white what is wrong. I would feel awful if she died and it could have been something I could have prevented. I really appreciate everyone's help. I will read the information. Thank u all again
 
Wildflower86 said:
Thank you Wiebke,
You don't realise how much this message has helped me 😢.
I'm just doubting everything and want it in black and white what is wrong. I would feel awful if she died and it could have been something I could have prevented. I really appreciate everyone's help. I will read the information. Thank u all again
Click to expand...

Thank you.

Please try to cherish every day she is still with you instead of spending it fretting. Make it special with a little special enrichment food treat you both enjoy, so you create positive memories while you still can. It is those precious memories that will stay with you and that will carry you through the pain of your loss.
You can get transfixed by the fear of a looming death or you can go and find that there is more life and quality of life to be celebrated in the meantime; the same goes for any species, including humans. That is the hidden gift of when you have had notice that a life is on the ticker; whether it is somebody else's or your own. :)

Because guinea pigs are such big personalities and we love them so much, it is hard to accept that when the chips are down they are only small animals with a much faster metabolism who can only take so much treatment and whose ageing process is much faster. :(

Enrichment Ideas for Guinea Pigs
 
We have a foster 8 year old at the moment and as Wiebke says we need to cherish each day primarily but obviously do our best to keep their weight and health as good as it can be 💐
 
Hello again everyone, I hope u dont mind me asking for some more advice. (in all honesty I'm finding your advice on here better than my local vets....!
I wonder what experienced owners would do in this situation? Basically I believe the antibiotics messed up Daisy's guts. She was having cowpat poos and needed bottom baths. They have got slightly better but she has now lost more weight. She looks so poorly now despite still eating well (she isn't eating the readigrass). But I see what u mean about the smell wheekallweek! Reminds me of rusks.

Anyway...I've contacted an exoctic vet because I wanted to double check the blood results ... I have been trying not to fret, (I promise) but had a niggle more was going on...(As my vet said he would pass on her blood results to the exoctic, to double check them --but exoctic didnt get back to my vet)...so I have contacted another exoctic- She has been absolutely amazing and so helpful. She has said the following-

As an older pig daisy most likely has a combination of issues- teeth is most likely a factor

Her bloods do not show anything obvious but slightly low in some areas and her weight loss is most likely because of teeth, GI diesease, metabolic disease ,thyroid, cancer, renal disease ....I'm guessing a combination of them

I could get more bloods and have ultrasounds to rule some of these out.
But ...Are any of these treatable?

I just don't know what to do seems the moment something is fixed another issue will arrise. Just wondering what you would all do?

Thank you all so much if uve read this ❤️ x
 
Wildflower86 said:
Hello again everyone, I hope u dont mind me asking for some more advice. (in all honesty I'm finding your advice on here better than my local vets....!
I wonder what experienced owners would do in this situation? Basically I believe the antibiotics messed up Daisy's guts. She was having cowpat poos and needed bottom baths. They have got slightly better but she has now lost more weight. She looks so poorly now despite still eating well (she isn't eating the readigrass). But I see what u mean about the smell wheekallweek! Reminds me of rusks.

Anyway...I've contacted an exoctic vet because I wanted to double check the blood results ... I have been trying not to fret, (I promise) but had a niggle more was going on...(As my vet said he would pass on her blood results to the exoctic, to double check them --but exoctic didnt get back to my vet)...so I have contacted another exoctic- She has been absolutely amazing and so helpful. She has said the following-

As an older pig daisy most likely has a combination of issues- teeth is most likely a factor

Her bloods do not show anything obvious but slightly low in some areas and her weight loss is most likely because of teeth, GI diesease, metabolic disease ,thyroid, cancer, renal disease ....I'm guessing a combination of them

I could get more bloods and have ultrasounds to rule some of these out.
But ...Are any of these treatable?

I just don't know what to do seems the moment something is fixed another issue will arrise. Just wondering what you would all do?

Thank you all so much if uve read this ❤️ x
Click to expand...

HUGS

I am very sorry but it looks like your poorly lady is coming towards the end of her life. Cancer, kidney and other metabolic organs and problems are currently still out of reach for treatment in guinea pigs due to their different metabolism.

All these niggles can hold up for a while but then come crashing down all of a sudden if the increasingly tenuous balance is tipped. :(

I would consider to see any measures and care as end of life care but be prepared to call it shots if she continues to deteriorate.

As to dental treatment, there is the question as to whether she is fit to be put through it and whether she will regain her appetite afterwards or not.

I am very sorry to not have better news but there comes a time in any older piggy's life where their fast metabolism is turning against them. It is a very bitter time as so much history and emotional attachment connects you.

We cannot advise you what decisions to make; that is your privilege and burden as the owner but we can help you think things through and see where you stand.
You are also welcome to book a (paid) phone appointment with your vet in order to discuss the issue in depth with a medical expert re. risks and potential gains as well as your girl's welfare.

These links below re. end of life care and decisions are designed to help you work out where you stand on the various factors that play into your decision, where you draw the line in terms of quality of life and what you can focus on in terms of looking after a terminally ill piggy. They are looking at the issues from the owner's perspective. The links do not make the easiest of readings, but then your decisions are going to be hard ones, but they aim to help you clear your head and create a solid enough platform on which you can stand and weather the inevitable emotional storm. It is always much more difficult when end of life decisions are not taken out of your hand by circumstances. There is a grey area between 'too early' and 'too late' where it is very much down to yourself as to where you draw the line but there is no right or wrong; we all feel a little different and weigh some aspects in a different order of importance.

At the moment you are likely not yet quite there (for that you would need a vet's evaluation) but rather close in my own estimation. This is the toughest time because you are torn between your fear of loss and your desire to get it right. Listen to your heart.

Here are some very helpful links:
- Operation or Terminal Care/Euthanasia? - Helpful Questions to Ask Ahead or in Hindsight
- A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

My thoughts are with you.
 
Aw, sorry to hear its not amazing news. Just cherish every day with her, give her lots of cuddles and tasty treats ❤️
 
I’m sorry to read about sweet Daisy
You know her best and any decisions you make will be out of love for her ❤️
 
Thank you everyone, I really appreciate your support. I've booked her in today to see Simon. Because she is drastically loosing weight...I think it's thyroid related because she eats so much and has soft stools. But with her being old she's got alot going on. Hopefully Simon will lay down some information for me to decide when the time is right.
 
Thinking of you and your little one and wishing you all the best.
 
((HUGS)) and I feel how hard this is for you. At 8-1/2 years old, she has led a wonderful long life and is clearly very much loved. Since you ask what we would do, in your place I would not do invasive tests or anything stressful or uncomfortable. I feel like the benefit of any firm diagnosis is likely to be minimal and the priority is giving her as many happy days as possible, which probably means spoiling her rotten and avoiding stressful vet trips and blood draws as much as you can. The main thing in old age is quality of life and I would monitor for her eating/drinking, interacting with you and other piggie friends normally to gauge whether she's still happy and enjoying her days. If she's not, it may be worth thinking about helping her pass, and if she is, cherish those days.

You've done a great job- I would be thrilled if one of my pigs made it over 8 years old! We are rooting for one to get to 7, most of mine have passed away around age 6-1/2. She's clearly a tough girl and you've clearly given her all the best over the years to get her this far. I know she'd thank you for that!
 
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