Senior piggy with a bulging eye

[Lazw]

Hello everyone,
My 5 and a half year old sow has had repeated haypokes in her eyes since she was young, however I noticed a couple of weeks ago that one of her eyes was protruding more than the other. She was prescribed cotrimoxazole for a week, and I was told it was a suspected mass which could be either a tumour or an abscess. She went back for a follow up at the end of the week, saw a different vet who extended the antibiotics another week and upped the dose. Her eye had improved a lot at this point, and she ended the course of antibiotics on Saturday so 4 days ago.

I've been sat with her this evening and her eye is protruding again. The second vet I saw suspected the same as the first, either a retrobulbar abscess or a tumour, and said given her age and the complexity of the surgery to drain the abscess and removed the eye, this wasn't an option and basically told me to take her home, keep her on metacam and bring her back when this happens again to be put to sleep. Well, I guess I'm at that stage now as it has happened again.

I guess I wanted to gauge opinions on what the kindest thing to do is. I am not sure surgery is fair at her age and whether she'd even recover- If I go this route I would go to the specialist exotics we've used previously however she's recently lost her lifelong friend and is now a lone piggy, I'm just not sure she would do well after the surgery . She did lose a little weight initially but gained this again whilst on the antibiotics. She's still eating and chirping away when cuddled etc. I'm so sad this has happened to her especially given we lost her friend to lymphoma less than two months ago. Any input welcome- I guess I'm asking what you'd do if she was yours, or any similar stories, not advice- I appreciate i need to speak to a vet for that. Thanks

 

[Lazw]

Here is a photo of my lovely piggy before the eye troubles

 

[Wiebke]

HUGS

I am so very sorry; a retrobulbar abscess would also be my first through although none of the other possible options is any more palatable or treatable in older piggy with a bulging eye.

It is always so very hard when your fear suddenly materialise you have to make on of these between a rock and a hard face decisions that are the nightmare of us all. There is sadly no magic miracle wand treatment; especially as the medical solution has not worked out and the swelling has returned.

You may find the questions in this link here helpful in working out where you stand in a situation where you feel swamped and overwhelmed by very conflicting emotions - and where there is ultimately no clear right or wrong which way you decide as long as your girl is dying in agony and as long as your ultimate choice feels like the one you can live with best.
We cannot tell you that but we can help you work it out for yourself so you know which of the various factors in more are important for you and which way forward may be the best for you with this piggy in this situation. It is a decision that we have to make anew each time; and it never gets any less tough and heartbreaking, unfortunately.
Here is the link with the questions: Operation, Terminal Care or Euthanasia? - Helpful Questions to Ask Ahead or in Hindsight

We can however give you our ongoing moral support and help you with practical questions for as long as needed in our new End of Life and Bereavement section and just trasfer this thread and let run for as long as you need to. It is perfectly normal that you feel conflicted and overwhelmed at getting the news you have dreaded; no matter how much you prepare (or not), it still always comes as a massive shock.

By the sound of it, you have a few days' grace to listen to what your hearts says.

My thoughts are with you and poorly girl. We can give our piggies as happy a life as can be in our loving good care but what never have any control over is when, what from, under what circumstances the end comes.

 

[Viennese Furbabies]

I'm very sorry you're facing this difficult decision. I have had a senior piggy with similar symptoms though in his case it was a more aggressive situation. We didn't go for the operation. The eye removal is the simpler part in this context. The problem is the actual cause of the protruding eye. And that's nothing good whatever it is (abscess or tumor or ...).

This situation must be incredibly painful and in Merlin's case I probably waited a bit too long to PTS because it happened so quickly and I was a bit over by the whole situation.

But since the antibiotic treatment has worked, maybe you could talk to your vet about going on with the eye drops and a high dose of metacam to give her a few more happy days.

 

[Lemurs]

Hi, we went through very similar last week.

It sounds eerily similar. His 'good' eye then went cloudy, then the protruding eye started gathering blood under the cornea.

His quality of life remained good but (and your vet will know better than me) there was a chance of his eye bursting out or rupturing.

Guinea pigs hide pain so well - too well. So we decided to let him go, only 30 days after adopting him.

Your pig sounds okay in herself. She will be hiding pain, a bulging eye must hurt like hell - in fact their whole head.

I think it's a case of wait and see, keep the status quo, then reassess when behaviour or appearance of that eye changes.

I have pictures in here if you want to check the likeliness Bloodshot eye & possible blindness

By the way your pig has amazing colouring. Very Siamese cat.

 

[AnxiousPigOwner]

Has she had her eye pressures read?

My piggie had a protruding eye and had her pressure read and it was on the high side so is now on drops for glaucoma.

I have no idea if antibiotic drops could temporarily fix something like that but I do know if I take my piggie off her drops the issue is back very quickly.

Sending hugs

 

[Lazw]

Hi,

So I have just got back from taking Holly to see a specialist exotics vet (Sarah brown at Holly house exotics practice in leeds- she was great). She was so thorough and spent ages checking her out, agreed she's in great condition but yes the eye is protruding. Yes @AnxiousPigOwner she did mention checking her eye pressure but sadly the equipment to do that was at their other general branch today, but I could call and arrange for this to be done to confirm whether or not it's glaucoma. The vet did say the treatment for this evening if confirmed isn't great though and doesn't often work? I think it would have been drops. She thought a mass is more likely though, whether an abscess or a tumour as her eye is very "fixed" if that makes sense, you can't gently push it back towards the skull like you can with the other normal side. We've agreed another 2 weeks of antibiotics and increased pain relief to manage this, her teeth all check out fine and she's eating and her usual self aside from her eye. Such a shame for my poor piggy .

 

[Lazw]

@AnxiousPigOwner I've had a quick Google if piggy glaucoma and a lot of the photos seem to suggest it causes a cloudy or watery eye, was this the case for your piggy? Holly's eye is still perfectly clear and healthy looking, just protruding.

 

[AnxiousPigOwner]

@AnxiousPigOwner I've had a quick Google if piggy glaucoma and a lot of the photos seem to suggest it causes a cloudy or watery eye, was this the case for your piggy? Holly's eye is still perfectly clear and healthy looking, just protruding.

So my piggie did have a cloudy eye, but she has done since she was 3 when she was diagnosed with cataracts. She also has heterotopic formation.
The glaucoma started at the end of March this year (shes now 7). The cloudiness hasnt gotten worse, but her eye was bulging and she had a pooling of blood in her eye.

From memory I believe a healthy reading is 15-20, back in March my piggies was 30. After being on Trusopt drops for a weak her pressure went down to 13 and she was fine up until last week when she had a sludge flare and she was straining a bit and it jumped up to 21. Essentially she is on drops for life.

I have attached a photo of what her eye looked like when she was first diagnosed. After a week her eye was back to a normal position and the red was gone.

My understanding is that pigs typically have cataracts with glaucoma but in some cases you can apparently have glaucoma without cataracts - so the cloudiness may not appear? (I'm just speculating).

My vet practice has an optomologist come in every 6 weeks (his name is David something) might be worth getting an opinion of an eye specialist before any decisions are made?

Sorry you're going through this.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi,

So I have just got back from taking Holly to see a specialist exotics vet (Sarah brown at Holly house exotics practice in leeds- she was great). She was so thorough and spent ages checking her out, agreed she's in great condition but yes the eye is protruding. Yes @AnxiousPigOwner she did mention checking her eye pressure but sadly the equipment to do that was at their other general branch today, but I could call and arrange for this to be done to confirm whether or not it's glaucoma. The vet did say the treatment for this evening if confirmed isn't great though and doesn't often work? I think it would have been drops. She thought a mass is more likely though, whether an abscess or a tumour as her eye is very "fixed" if that makes sense, you can't gently push it back towards the skull like you can with the other normal side. We've agreed another 2 weeks of antibiotics and increased pain relief to manage this, her teeth all check out fine and she's eating and her usual self aside from her eye. Such a shame for my poor piggy .

I am very sorry that the news is overall not encouraging. Glaucoma is actually rare in guinea pigs.

My Hafina 'Summer' had it as a result of a long term untreated eye infection, which left her with a blocked tear duct when she was found together with a couple of other sows (one of them still lactating) in a cardboard box in full summer sun a private person's doorstep - good thing the lady returned early and took them to a local rescue. Hafina was described as 'mature' (she was at least 4-5 years old if not more) and with her gunky eye due to the blocked tear duct (after the infection had been treated) she had no realistic chance of ever finding a pet home, so she came here to join my Tribe and live out her life with new friends. Unfortunately, somehow the infection must have travelled deeper into the eye and eventually into the eyeball, which as an enclosed system (the same as a middle ear capsule/bulla) is medically very difficult to reach.
We tried the strongest antibiotics possible but they didn't work and her eye continued to protrude and to harden. Sadly, her heart gave out during the make or break operation - which with older piggies and especially eye removal ops is not at all uncommon. She was the squishiest and gentlest of souls and passed away 15 years ago after one last very happy year of her life.
I hope that this helps you to shed more light on the glaucoma angle and on the vet's comments? I truly wish I had more positive ways forward but my worry is the same as all the vets - what is it that is pushing the eye out because that cannot be anything good.

It is ever so tough when you come up against an health aspect that for us humans is not such a big deal but which are still not really treatable in guinea pigs and where vets still very much struggle. Unfortunately, we can only ever give our pets as happy a life as possible but we can never choose when, what from and under what circumstances the end comes. Wrapping your head around the fact that your choices are realistically very limited is not an easy process because of course you love them and you would want to have them with for you for longer and you want to be well again.

 

[Lazw]

I am very sorry that the news is overall not encouraging. Glaucoma is actually rare in guinea pigs.

My Hafina 'Summer' had it as a result of a long term untreated eye infection, which left her with a blocked tear duct when she was found together with a couple of other sows (one of them still lactating) in a cardboard box in full summer sun a private person's doorstep - good thing the lady returned early and took them to a local rescue. Hafina was described as 'mature' (she was at least 4-5 years old if not more) and with her gunky eye due to the blocked tear duct (after the infection had been treated) she had no realistic chance of ever finding a pet home, so she came here to join my Tribe and live out her life with new friends. Unfortunately, somehow the infection must have travelled deeper into the eye and eventually into the eyeball, which as an enclosed system (the same as a middle ear capsule/bulla) is medically very difficult to reach.
We tried the strongest antibiotics possible but they didn't work and her eye continued to protrude and to harden. Sadly, her heart gave out during the make or break operation - which with older piggies and especially eye removal ops is not at all uncommon. She was the squishiest and gentlest of souls and passed away 15 years ago after one last very happy year of her life.
I hope that this helps you to shed more light on the glaucoma angle and on the vet's comments? I truly wish I had more positive ways forward but my worry is the same as all the vets - what is it that is pushing the eye out because that cannot be anything good.

It is ever so tough when you come up against an health aspect that for us humans is not such a big deal but which are still not really treatable in guinea pigs and where vets still very much struggle. Unfortunately, we can only ever give our pets as happy a life as possible but we can never choose when, what from and under what circumstances the end comes. Wrapping your head around the fact that your choices are realistically very limited is not an easy process because of course you love them and you would want to have them with for you for longer and you want to be well again.

Thank you for this detailed response @Wiebke. I wasn't aware glaucoma is rare in guinea pigs, to be honest I don't think it's that- the eye looks ok, perhaps a little grey at the back when the light catches it but no redness anywhere or cloudiness. She has had a great number of haypokes over the years though in that eye, I'm not sure if this raises the risk of glaucoma at all? Although the eye is very "fixed" as in, there's absolutely no movement when pressure is gently applied. I'm not sure I'm able to ask this, but if she were your piggy, would you have the glaucoma test done just to confirm either way or is it sounding incredibly unlikely. I think I'm probably clutching at straws as I do believe it's a mass but desperately want it to be something more treatable .

 

[Lazw]

So my piggie did have a cloudy eye, but she has done since she was 3 when she was diagnosed with cataracts. She also has heterotopic formation.
The glaucoma started at the end of March this year (shes now 7). The cloudiness hasnt gotten worse, but her eye was bulging and she had a pooling of blood in her eye.

From memory I believe a healthy reading is 15-20, back in March my piggies was 30. After being on Trusopt drops for a weak her pressure went down to 13 and she was fine up until last week when she had a sludge flare and she was straining a bit and it jumped up to 21. Essentially she is on drops for life.

I have attached a photo of what her eye looked like when she was first diagnosed. After a week her eye was back to a normal position and the red was gone.

My understanding is that pigs typically have cataracts with glaucoma but in some cases you can apparently have glaucoma without cataracts - so the cloudiness may not appear? (I'm just speculating).

My vet practice has an optomologist come in every 6 weeks (his name is David something) might be worth getting an opinion of an eye specialist before any decisions are made?

Sorry you're going through this.

Thank you for sharing your story, it sounds like the treatment really improved things for your lovely piggy. I suppose I'm just pondering whether it is worth getting the pressure check done just to know definitively that it is in fact a mass, although if I'm honest with myself I know that to be the case anyway- I have scoured the net to look for a photo of a glaucoma eye that looks anything like Holly's and it just doesn't exist

 

[Lazw]

I've contacted our usual vets4pets to ask whether they would have the equipment to test eye pressure on a guinea pig as there are no appointments available with the specialist I managed to sneak in with yesterday, for 2 weeks. The vets4pets we use are really very good and usually have immediate appointments available, so I'm hoping I can use some of the knowledge gained at the specialist yesterday to get holly this last test before I suppose we resign ourselves to this being untreatable. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for this detailed response @Wiebke. I wasn't aware glaucoma is rare in guinea pigs, to be honest I don't think it's that- the eye looks ok, perhaps a little grey at the back when the light catches it but no redness anywhere or cloudiness. She has had a great number of haypokes over the years though in that eye, I'm not sure if this raises the risk of glaucoma at all? Although the eye is very "fixed" as in, there's absolutely no movement when pressure is gently applied. I'm not sure I'm able to ask this, but if she were your piggy, would you have the glaucoma test done just to confirm either way or is it sounding incredibly unlikely. I think I'm probably clutching at straws as I do believe it's a mass but desperately want it to be something more treatable .

Hi

Hay pokes usually only reach into the antechamber of the eye but not into the eyeball itself, which is a closed body; so it is rare for an infection to penetrate as far as that without the eyeball itself to be penetrated - which is always a bloody eye and often one that cannot be saved.

I totally feel for you but the immobility of the eye means that there is by far most likely a firm mass gradually pushing it out and that it is only going to get worse, and not better. You also have to think of what is happening inside the head on the other side. You don't have that immobility with glaucoma (I've got variable glaucoma in my family). The pressure with glaucoma is coming from the inside of the eye and not from behind it.
We don't see many glaucoma cases on here; most bulging eyes are caused from pressure from the behind the eye. If yours was a retrobulbar abscess, things would have likely come to a head by now.

If you really feel you need to hang your all on that one glaucoma test then so be it. But please also think about how your girl is feeling during that time that you need to deal with your own fears of letting her go.

I live with an inoperable brain tumour myself so I cannot help but to empathise. However, I ended up with a broken hip as a result and a hand that had forgotten how to grip a glass of water by the time I had been transferred to a hospital ward because of the brain swelling that the tumour caused. If that is what is behind your girl's eye, then please consider that the growing 'mass' is not just pushing on the eye but also continues to grow in other directions, only that you cannot see this and therefore do not think about it.
The eye is the weakest point in the skull but the pressure inside the head continues to grow, too, if it is not glaucoma. A swollen brain as the result of this inner growth is not a nice feeling.

Please don't wait for too long to make up your mind. Things are not standing still for your girl. I am sorry for putting you under more stress but I feel strongly that I should put a word in for the being that is at the sharp end in this but doesn't have the voice to tell their side. Perhaps my personal experience can help to shed light on the area which you keep shying away from and which tends to be overlooked because there are not many first-hand experiences around on this forum that can be brought to bear.

My thoughts are with your poorly girl and with you.