Should I separate?

[Phoenix Kitteh]

I have a 2 month old (we believe blind) teddy and a 1 year old skinny. A week ago we introduced them. There has never been any biting or nipping but we have observed the older Piggy chasing the little one around and constantly rumbling. She allows the little one to be out for a short period of time before chasing her back into the hiddie areas. She also constantly takes the fresh veggies away from her. Although the little one is still learning what fresh greens are and that they are good for her. She has gained a bit of weight since we took her to the vet two and a half weeks ago but we fear the older piggy isn't permitting her to come out and eat and drink like she is supposed to. We have caught them on camera being in the open area of the cage in the evening time but like I said she's only permitted to be out of the hiddie areas for a short period of time. We fear that the older piggy has not accepted the younger one and wonder if they should be separated even though there has been no blood and no actual fighting. Please help I'm in desperate need of some advice.

I've been told it's because that since there are only 2 piggies, that the older one is just forcing all her dominance on the little one and that we would be best to get a third Piggy to these things down since they're heard animals.

I just panic because I've never had this issue before and I've always had piggies that got along. So to see her being a little too bossy pig over a blind baby worries me. Because no matter what I put in the cage as a tunnel or hiding place, the boss pig claims dominance over it and would go out of her way if she's laying in another bed to run across the cage chase the little one out of one. I have four houses, a box tunnel, and the wood tunnel along with two water bottles and two food bottles and a huge hay pile. The c&c cage is a 3x5 (42x70) so they have plenty of room. I did remove the little houses today to try and alleviate some of the territorialness the older one is having but still kept their beds and blankets if they wanted to burrow inside of them.

I won't lie I'm extremely hesitant about getting a third one, even though I have thought about it, because I am afraid that it's just the fact my boss Piggy isn't well socialized enough with other piggies (was the only piggie in a cage her whole life till a week ago). In essence, causing a bigger issue with her doing the same to both pigs.

I understand the whole dominance dance, it just worries me that it's been a week now. Is the older piggie just not cut out to have a cage mate? Have you ever heard that getting a 3rd helps with over dominance?

 

[Siikibam]

Chasing the baby out of the hides is part of dominance behaviour. Taking veg is also normal - I would scatter feed so the older piggy can’t hog it.

How has the baby’s weight been since you got her? If she’s putting on weight then it means she is allowed to eat. Does she squeak when chased?

It sounds mild at the moment and it has only been a week. It takes two weeks for them to settle their hierarchy. I would see how baby is at the next weigh in. Possibly weigh her daily at the same time (before veg or morning hay top-up) and see if she’s maintaining or losing.

Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

 

[Phoenix Kitteh]

Chasing the baby out of the hides is part of dominance behaviour. Taking veg is also normal - I would scatter feed so the older piggy can’t hog it.

How has the baby’s weight been since you got her? If she’s putting on weight then it means she is allowed to eat. Does she squeak when chased?

It sounds mild at the moment and it has only been a week. It takes two weeks for them to settle their hierarchy. I would see how baby is at the next weigh in. Possibly weigh her daily at the same time (before veg or morning hay top-up) and see if she’s maintaining or losing.

Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs

She has gained a bit of weight in the last 2 weeks since her last visit. About 100 g to be more precise. Yes she does wheek when being chased but she also does anytime boss piggy comes near her. I have scattered the fresh greens every morning but the problem is as soon as she starts nibbling boss piggy runs and snatches that piece and runs into a bed with it. I do catch her on camera being able to eat and drink a bit and I've noticed since removing the houses today that has cut down on a bit of it because they're laying down and sleeping for the past hour. But before then there was quite a bit of chasing.

 

[Siikibam]

You need to leave them with some hides in the cage though, they can’t have nothing. If she’s putting on weight then that’s fine, she is allowed to eat. You do need to weigh her weekly at the same time though, not just wait for her to go to the vet.

 

[Wiebke]

I have a 2 month old (we believe blind) teddy and a 1 year old skinny. A week ago we introduced them. There has never been any biting or nipping but we have observed the older Piggy chasing the little one around and constantly rumbling. She allows the little one to be out for a short period of time before chasing her back into the hiddie areas. She also constantly takes the fresh veggies away from her. Although the little one is still learning what fresh greens are and that they are good for her. She has gained a bit of weight since we took her to the vet two and a half weeks ago but we fear the older piggy isn't permitting her to come out and eat and drink like she is supposed to. We have caught them on camera being in the open area of the cage in the evening time but like I said she's only permitted to be out of the hiddie areas for a short period of time. We fear that the older piggy has not accepted the younger one and wonder if they should be separated even though there has been no blood and no actual fighting. Please help I'm in desperate need of some advice.

I've been told it's because that since there are only 2 piggies, that the older one is just forcing all her dominance on the little one and that we would be best to get a third Piggy to these things down since they're heard animals.

I just panic because I've never had this issue before and I've always had piggies that got along. So to see her being a little too bossy pig over a blind baby worries me. Because no matter what I put in the cage as a tunnel or hiding place, the boss pig claims dominance over it and would go out of her way if she's laying in another bed to run across the cage chase the little one out of one. I have four houses, a box tunnel, and the wood tunnel along with two water bottles and two food bottles and a huge hay pile. The c&c cage is a 3x5 (42x70) so they have plenty of room. I did remove the little houses today to try and alleviate some of the territorialness the older one is having but still kept their beds and blankets if they wanted to burrow inside of them.

I won't lie I'm extremely hesitant about getting a third one, even though I have thought about it, because I am afraid that it's just the fact my boss Piggy isn't well socialized enough with other piggies (was the only piggie in a cage her whole life till a week ago). In essence, causing a bigger issue with her doing the same to both pigs.

I understand the whole dominance dance, it just worries me that it's been a week now. Is the older piggie just not cut out to have a cage mate? Have you ever heard that getting a 3rd helps with over dominance?

The post bonding dominance phase lasts on average 2 weeks; it can mostly be over after just a few days or go on for even longer until the relationship is fully settled.
As long as the dominance behaviour is still in the mild range (the details of which were not quite clear from your first thread) and is just on the level of generally throwing one's weight around by the dominant piggy re. chucking out whenever she is in the mood and hogging a bowl as well as insisting on a certain 'private sphere' perimeter, then that is totally tolerable.

Make sure that you only have hides with two exits, so any under-piggy can always move off without drama, that you either feed in two separate bowls that are at least a body length apart in order to prevent hogging (and if necessary have a little extra in a third bowl) or sprinkle feed, then you can minimise these issues. Have two water bottles in different areas and make sure that access to hay cannot be blocked. Those are typical dominance phase issues. Piggies with insecurities and resulting fear-aggression issues tend to be more stand-offish than confident piggies.

What is not tolerable is persistent aggressive chasing around the cage, making it clear that the other party is not welcome anywhere in the cage/teeth chattering and keeping the under-piggy from getting access to food/water and even sleeping, that is bullying or a sign of a failed bonding.

I would most definitely not introduce a third piggy into a not yet settled pair situation and create a lot more stress or potentially derail the bonding process. Trios end up more often with 2:1 outsider situation than not in my own experience. I do have and have had great trios but I have had more that have failed because two piggies got on better in the longer term.

 

[Phoenix Kitteh]

The post bonding dominance phase lasts on average 2 weeks; it can mostly be over after just a few days or go on for even longer until the relationship is fully settled.
As long as the dominance behaviour is still in the mild range (the details of which were not quite clear from your first thread) and is just on the level of generally throwing one's weight around by the dominant piggy re. chucking out whenever she is in the mood and hogging a bowl as well as insisting on a certain 'private sphere' perimeter, then that is totally tolerable.

Make sure that you only have hides with two exits, so any under-piggy can always move off without drama, that you either feed in two separate bowls that are at least a body length apart in order to prevent hogging (and if necessary have a little extra in a third bowl) or sprinkle feed, then you can minimise these issues. Have two water bottles in different areas and make sure that access to hay cannot be blocked. Those are typical dominance phase issues. Piggies with insecurities and resulting fear-aggression issues tend to be more stand-offish than confident piggies.

What is not tolerable is persistent aggressive chasing around the cage, making it clear that the other party is not welcome anywhere in the cage/teeth chattering and keeping the under-piggy from getting access to food/water and even sleeping, that is bullying or a sign of a failed bonding.

I would most definitely not introduce a third piggy into a not yet settled pair situation and create a lot more stress or potentially derail the bonding process. Trios end up more often with 2:1 outsider situation than not in my own experience. I do have and have had great trios but I have had more that have failed because two piggies got on better in the longer term.

That was my feelings too about a 3rd and was shocked when an educated guinea pig carer suggested it. As for all the other things I already have had those in place for the past week. The baby is able to sleep and nibble here and there throughout the day but from an outside looking in it's like she doesn't have free roam around the cage like the older Piggy who will chase her into a hiding place and teeth chatter anytime the little one is around her. She'll even teeth chatter at me when I'm cleaning the cage which she never did before introducing the little one. She won't lunge at me or anything but she'll stand off and teeth chatter at me like she's agitated with me for even being in her space. Part of me is starting to wonder if she's actually younger than I was told and she's going through the teenage puberty stage.

 

[Phoenix Kitteh]

So, I was correct. Eir (the oldest) is younger than quoted. Agreed to be between 6-8 months and the vet said the extra territorialness is just due to hormones. There is no signs of cervical cysts and she is in perfect health. I also noticed that taking her out of the cage for 3 hours for the vet visit has calmed her down big time with Frigg (the baby) there is minor chasing from time to time when they're trying to sort out who gets a certain bed, but things are going a lot better. Now we're just working on the confidence level of the baby so that she is not constantly in hiding anytime I'm in the room.