Sick guinea pig - please help.

[annaandpigs]

Hi all,

This is my first post - I'm writing about my 2.5 year old Texel guinea pig, GusGus. Gussy stopped being interested in food about 2 weeks ago. His Dad is away so I thought it might be that at first. 12 days ago I took him to the vet when I noticed that he'd lost weight and wasn't pooping or urinating much. They gave him syringe food, metacam and metoclopramide, sadly he continued to lose weight and became really lethargic so I took him back in and asked for a referral to an exotics specialist - as the current vets aren't specialists despite having sorted out every issue over the past 2 years.

The specialist asked that he stay in overnight to have blood tests, an x-ray and urine tests done. He had all of these and a gas GA (which I was really worried about) and then was syringe fed critical care overnight. The specialist couldn't find anything abnormal apart from the obvious gas and gut stasis and slightly diluted urine which she said could be a sign of kidney problems. The next day the specialist called me and told me he was doing a lot better and gave me the option to come pick him up rather than keep him over the weekend. As the cost for incare was super expensive, I agreed to take him home on the proviso that I could bring him immediately back in if there was any deterioration. He seemed really stressed when I picked him up so I didn't take him out of his box until we got home. When I did, I was shocked - he was skinny, covered in urine and it smelled really strong - he was also totally out of it and covered in eye gunk. I called the vets back and asked them to take him back in immediately, they refused - the specialist had gone home and they 'were too busy.' So I was stuck with him over the weekend - I thought I was going to lose him, but managed to get enough food and water into him to keep him going. I also gave him so diluted cranberry as it smelled like he had a UTI.

On Monday, he'd perked up, and I went to my normal vet - I'm currently in the middle of a complaints procedure with the emergency vets for not taking him in over the weekend - and they prescribed Baytril for him. He had really picked up and I was thrilled - the smelly urine is almost gone and he's even been eating on his own - and was steadily putting on weight. But this morning, he'd again lost 50g and is now crying when he poops - he'd never cried before even when his urine stank. He's going in for a bladder ultrasound this afternoon (again at the normal vet / not specialist), even though the specialist couldn't see any stoned on the x-rays - I just feel like I'm shooting in the dark now - I don't want to go back to the specialist because of his treatment last time and what a bad state it left him in - and honestly I'm getting to the end of what I can afford to spend - his treatment so far has cost £1,200. Does anyone have any suggestions on what might be going on - or what I can do to help him?

I've listed the meds he's currently on below - Buprenorphine, Baytril, Emerprid, Cisapride, Loxicom, and Probiotics as his tummy has been funny on the anti-biotics. Food-wise, he'll only eat lettuce, a couple of pellets, grass, only the grassy bits from the hay and cucumber - he usually has a much wider diet that this and he's not eating a lot at a time - just a little every hour or so. I am still syringe feeding him water and CC of course. His weight is down to 11.50 on my scales - usually he weighs 13.00 as he's quite a big piggie.

Any help would be so, so appreciated - I absolutely adore him and watching him be in pain like this is so awful. He almost gave up at the weekend, but I feel like he really wants to stick around - he's still talking to me and is fairly alert.

Anna

 

[Wiebke]

Hi!

I am very sorry that your boy is doing so badly without a diagnosis and I sincerely hope that you can get one!

Strong smelling urine is generally a sign of infection; in my personal experience it is a symptom more often connected with a bacterial cystitis as a result of stone or sludge damage than with a plain UTI; in sows it would be otherwise more often a sign that something could be going haywire in the womb. The antibiotic should have helped with that but there is quite obviously something very painful going on in the lower body that is impacting on the urinary tract and the lower gut enough to cause gas and partial GI stasis.

We can unfortunately only speculate through the filter of your own words; there is nothing that we could pull out of the hat with a snap of our fingers. Quite a lot can go on down there, whether it is located on the urinary or pushing on it and the gut because it is all packed very closely with the gut wrapping itself around the urinary and the reproductive tract.

The drugs are a stong painkiller, the antibiotic and the standard available range of gut stimulants (which sadly very limited for small rodents).

I wish I could be of more help but it really very much depends on whether the serious cause can be found or not; and sometimes that is anything but easy with small pets like guinea pigs.

 

[annaandpigs]

Hi,

Thank you for responding to me - I totally understand that it's a complex case and that it's difficult to guess what might be going on - I was really mainly hoping that somebody else might have gone through something similar which might help me understand what might be going on or to do little things that might help him - he's perked up a bit and has eaten some bits and pieces on his own now, so I'm really pleased about that!

Hopefully the ultrasound will prove illuminating and I do really appreciate your response in the meantime

Anna

 

[VickiA]

I hope you can get some answers later after the ultrasound.

 

[Guinea pig love123]

I really do hope he will be ok but maybe try a huge variety of veg to see what he enjoys the most and just keep feeding it.

 

[annaandpigs]

Thank you guys - he seems only interested in soft veg - lettuce, grass, cucumbers, etc - won't touch carrots and peppers anymore but will keep trying. He takes the food very politely and just puts it down somewhere else, bless him.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you guys - he seems only interested in soft veg - lettuce, grass, cucumbers, etc - won't touch carrots and peppers anymore but will keep trying. He takes the food very politely and just puts it down somewhere else, bless him.

Please make sure that you replace the ca. 80% of hay/grass fibre that the gut needs to not go dysbiotic with round the clock syringe feeding support, especially in view of the bloating issues. The last thing you want is causing more dysbiosis (soft poos and bloating) because of overgrowth of the wrong bacteria in the gut. You need to keep in mind the overall food ratio and supplement what he doesn't eat himself with feeding support.
Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

 

[Merab]

I can’t add any advice but wanted to assure you of my support.

 

[annaandpigs]

Please make sure that you replace the ca. 80% of hay/grass fibre that the gut needs to not go dysbiotic with round the clock syringe feeding support, especially in view of the bloating issues. The last thing you want is causing more dysbiosis (soft poos and bloating) because of overgrowth of the wrong bacteria in the gut. You need to keep in mind the overall food ratio and supplement what he doesn't eat himself with feeding support.
Not Eating, Weight Loss And The Importance Of Syringe Feeding Fibre
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Digestive Disorders: Diarrhea - Bloat - GI Stasis (No Gut Movement) And Not Eating

He's getting about 5/7 mil critical care or mushed up pellets if he won't take the cc every 1 or 2 hours depending on how it goes - and I think he's getting most of it down. Is that enough do you think? He only gets 2 feeds during the night at the moment as I'm on my own but I guess I can try and increase.

And thank you for the offer of support - I feel like I need it at the moment, it's so hard seeing them in pain.

 

[Guinea pig love123]

He's getting about 5/7 mil critical care or mushed up pellets if he won't take the cc every 1 or 2 hours depending on how it goes - and I think he's getting most of it down. Is that enough do you think? He only gets 2 feeds during the night at the moment as I'm on my own but I guess I can try and increase.

And thank you for the offer of support - I feel like I need it at the moment, it's so hard seeing them in pain.

I'm not entirely sure but I think that he may need more in the night unfortunately but you could try just before you go to sleep, in the middle of the night and early morning or whenever you get up then that would be 3 times I hope all will be well

 

[Siikibam]

You need your sleep as well, so try getting as much into him during the day as possible. Perhaps you could try minimum 5ml every two hours, or more if he will take it in those sittings. Then one feed before you go to bed. And start again when you wake up. It would be difficult to sustain night feeding, even if it’s every 3-4 hours.

Hopefully Wiebke can give you a better answer.

 

[Wiebke]

He's getting about 5/7 mil critical care or mushed up pellets if he won't take the cc every 1 or 2 hours depending on how it goes - and I think he's getting most of it down. Is that enough do you think? He only gets 2 feeds during the night at the moment as I'm on my own but I guess I can try and increase.

And thank you for the offer of support - I feel like I need it at the moment, it's so hard seeing them in pain.

With a piggy that is hardly/not eating on their own, you are aiming at ideally 60 ml in 24 hours to help stabilise the weight as much as possible (pending underlying pain issues). I would not feed more than once the night as you need to consider your own health/exhaustion if you are doing this all alone - even with a diagnosis, things are not going to improve instantly with the waving of a magical wand.

What I would try is to start syringe feeding 2 ml and then encourage him to try some lukewarm mushed up pellets from a spoon (much softer to eat), as well as fresh herbs and any veg he shows interest in etc. and then you take over with the rest of the feed, as much as needed. This helps to stimulate the eating reflex to encourage him to eat on his own as much as he is willing to. Have you considered helping the gut microbiome with some 'poo soup' provided by a healthy companion not on any medication to help activate the appetite as much as possible from that end? Fibreplex would be another alternative to help settle the gut microbiome that is more effective than probiotic powder - most piggies don't like it pure, but it will go down when mixed with some syringe feed.
'Recipe' for poo soup in this link here: Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

 

[annaandpigs]

Thank you - I'll do more day feeds in that case. He just got back from his ultrasound - and got the tests back from the lab about his urine - he has no bacterial infection but has bladder sludge - something I've never come across with my piggies - they've prescribed him cystease and said to stop the antibiotics - hopefully this will be the thing that cures him. Very confused he has bladder sludge, as I looked it up and we really don't feed him calcium rich foods apart from some kale every now and then - his pellets are Burgess Excel. Anyway, thanks again everyone, I was feeling terrified that he had cancer or bladder stones and I'm very relieved if this is it - although he still has ways to go to recover of course.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m glad you have a diagnosis.

Pellets (even low calcium ones) and unfiltered drinking water contain more calcium than kale. Ensure you keep pellets strictly limited to one tablespoon only and that the drinking water is filtered.

 

[annaandpigs]

Wow, I didn't know that - they only usually have one handful a day between the two of them - but I have been feeding him them of late as he spits out critical care everytime I try and feed him, despite having three different brands / flavours. I'll ditch the pellets now and will take up the CC again. And I'll make sure their water is filtered from now on too - that's really useful to know, thank you. He's still struggling to eat at the moment, but managed to get 15ml into him just now - he's sleeping it off. I've attached a pic of the patient - in all his usual glory - he loves being the centre of attention - so he'd love to know that you're all helping him

 

[Claire W]

I’m so glad you have a diagnosis for your boy and it isn’t as bad as you feared. Hopefully onwards and upwards from now on x

 

[annaandpigs]

Thank you - I really still have no idea (aside from what the vet said and what we've already discussed) on how to deal with bladder sludge and what will help him, (aside from the meds he's on, low calcium foods, exercise and syringe feeding to get his weight up) so any advice is still very much appreciated. He's very grumpy right now, so syringe feeding is proving challenging.

Also I've seen that other people in the past have had vets who didn't tell them to stop the antibiotics and just continue with cystease as mine did - what do you guys think?

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you - I'll do more day feeds in that case. He just got back from his ultrasound - and got the tests back from the lab about his urine - he has no bacterial infection but has bladder sludge - something I've never come across with my piggies - they've prescribed him cystease and said to stop the antibiotics - hopefully this will be the thing that cures him. Very confused he has bladder sludge, as I looked it up and we really don't feed him calcium rich foods apart from some kale every now and then - his pellets are Burgess Excel. Anyway, thanks again everyone, I was feeling terrified that he had cancer or bladder stones and I'm very relieved if this is it - although he still has ways to go to recover of course.

The cystease won't cure the bladder sludge build up; that will either have to be carefully flushed out by an experienced vet or - if the bladder is too tightly packed - then it will have to be operated out. Sludge is a lot less common than stones, but can happen that you get mostly small gritty crystals instead of one large large stone. However because they are generally sharp edged, they can cause more bladder trauma than a fairly smooth bladder stone when they are tumbled around the bladder with every pee. In extreme cases, sludge can tightly paclk the whole bladder.
Guinea Lynx :: Bladder Stones

What the cystease will do is to replenish the badly scratched natural glucosamine coating of the walls in the bladder and urinary tract that keep the very corrosive urine from coming into very painful contact with raw tissue every time the bladder fills. However, this is not a quick fix as it takes a few weeks to build up and it won't do anything about the bladder sludge itself.
It is however important for the long term comfort and to help repair the damage/lessen the bladder trauma. It is generally the pain in the bladder walls that is so agonising.
We recommend to mix the contents of 1 capsule of cystease with 2 ml of water and then either give 1 ml every 12 hours or 2ml every 24 hours. Always shake the water/powder mix before use. In a severe case as yours, you can safely give 1 capsule in the morning and another in the evening. Glucosamine is classed as a food supplement and not as a medication; you can order Feliway cystease capsules for cats easily online; they are much easier to use and dose than having to grind down tablets and then computing how many doses this makes and how many millilitres of water you need mix it with - and as the mix is not stabilised, you will have more waste with tablets.

Most people concentrate their attention in a guinea pig diet wholly on the veg, even though it only makes around 15% of the daily food intake. They are not aware that most calcium comes with the water (even more so the harder the water) and also that even no added calcium pellets still have more calcium compared to the veg highest in calcium, kale.
Please take the time to read the information in our diet guide; it also contains additional tips for guinea pigs with urinary tract issues.
But be aware that again it takes several weeks for nutrional changes to filter through the body and that you can only gradually stop adding to the sludge but that this measure does not remove it.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Please also be aware that the calcium absorption process is rather complex and not yet fully research. More factors than just diet are usually in play but diet is the only one we can do anything about.
My Cariad (2009-14) continued to produce bladder sludge in the wake of a large stone that formed from nothing in a matter of weeks after something suddenly flipped in her calcium absorption process; she needed regular bladder flushes for the last 2 years of her life. The intervals between the flushes got larger but even with the dietary changes (of which filtering the water made the biggest impact) her problem never fully went away.

I hope that this helps you?

 

[annaandpigs]

Thank you - that's really helpful. This is so bizarre - he already had a bladder flush from the exotic specialist at the emergency vets - I'm sure of it. I'll double check with her tomorrow to see if that's what she did - because if so, it sounds very strange (or maybe even impossible) that he'd have bladder sludge 5 days later. He doesn't have that many crystals, just enough to give him the symptoms of cystitis - or at least that's what the vet told me earlier.

It's all so overwhelming - I feel so lucky that my piggies have all been so well up until now. Thank you for the link to the diet guide - I'm surprised that lettuce wouldn't be allowed - poor little guy - all his favourites are off the table. Do you think I could blend up the sample veggie plate and syringe it to him as he truly hates critical care and so it might be nice to include veggies too - I mean until he feels more up to eating as right now I can't get him to eat most of the food on the ideal plate for piggies with bladder issues.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you - that's really helpful. This is so bizarre - he already had a bladder flush from the exotic specialist at the emergency vets - I'm sure of it. I'll double check with her tomorrow to see if that's what she did - because if so, it sounds very strange (or maybe even impossible) that he'd have bladder sludge 5 days later. He doesn't have that many crystals, just enough to give him the symptoms of cystitis - or at least that's what the vet told me earlier.

It's all so overwhelming - I feel so lucky that my piggies have all been so well up until now. Thank you for the link to the diet guide - I'm surprised that lettuce wouldn't be allowed - poor little guy - all his favourites are off the table. Do you think I could blend up the sample veggie plate and syringe it to him as he truly hates critical care and so it might be nice to include veggies too - I mean until he feels more up to eating as right now I can't get him to eat most of the food on the ideal plate for piggies with bladder issues.

It could be bladder trauma or crsytals coming down the ureters? Flushing a bladder can sometimes work to trigger stuff to come down from the kidneys. Anyway, you should in this case not be dealing with a fully packed bladder - that should have shown up before.

You can feed lettuce to bladder stone piggies. Lettuce is mentioned as a potential trigger food for sterile interstitial cystitis (a non-bacterial recurring bladder infection) that has nothing to do with stones and sludge.

 

[annaandpigs]

I just wanted to say thanks again for all the help everyone - he was really poorly this morning - refusing to eat anything - but I've moved down to a tiny syringe and it seems to be helping, I think the vets force fed him quite roughly with a big syringe and he's a bit traumatised from it - I spoke to the exotic specialist again and she recommended potassium citrate, which will arrive tomorrow. I'll add this to his other meds and the cystease but will stop Bayril now. The water filter jug has arrived so at least I have that now. From the normal vets notes, the exotic vet is of the opinion he has some bladder crystals (but maybe not full bladder sludge) and cystitis (non bacterial) due to this so will stick to the cystitis safe foods - as well as bladder stone safe foods. Anyway, just having you guys to talk to was really helpful - so thank you again. Hopefully this will be my last post and he'll start to perk up really soon.

 

[Swissgreys]

I found most of mine hated Critical Care and have had more success with Recovery Formula or their regular pellets soaked and mashed with a bit of water.
Also sometimes if you make the syringe feed up with some pureed fruit (mashed banana is a favourite here) they will be more enthusiastic. It also never hurts to offer some on a small dish in their cage. Some piggies who don't like the syringe will actually eat the mush themselves if given the chance.

 

[Two_Wheeks]

I just wanted to send all our best wishes to you and your piggy, poor fella.

When my boy refused CC, and before I could get him an alternative, we found he quite happily tucked in to some porridge oats - they were cooked (with oat milk) so soft, warm and comforting, and he ate them from a saucer. It seemed to get things going. I know you can feed them uncooked, too, though I think our boy quite liked the warmth - if you do heat them though, don't use dairy milk (water would be better) and let them cool until they are just warm.

Thinking of you x

 

[Wiebke]

I just wanted to say thanks again for all the help everyone - he was really poorly this morning - refusing to eat anything - but I've moved down to a tiny syringe and it seems to be helping, I think the vets force fed him quite roughly with a big syringe and he's a bit traumatised from it - I spoke to the exotic specialist again and she recommended potassium citrate, which will arrive tomorrow. I'll add this to his other meds and the cystease but will stop Bayril now. The water filter jug has arrived so at least I have that now. From the normal vets notes, the exotic vet is of the opinion he has some bladder crystals (but maybe not full bladder sludge) and cystitis (non bacterial) due to this so will stick to the cystitis safe foods - as well as bladder stone safe foods. Anyway, just having you guys to talk to was really helpful - so thank you again. Hopefully this will be my last post and he'll start to perk up really soon.

Mushed up pellets with critical care mixed in usually works for me; otherwise emeraid formula (which is not hay based) goes down best with my piggies that are totally off their food.

 

[annaandpigs]

The porridge oats is a really good idea, I'll definitely try those this evening - thank you Two_Wheeks. I did try some melon juice earlier SwissGreys and sadly he saw right through me and refused.

Famous last words on my last post - I was upstairs with the pigs and Gus let out a huge squeak and when I rushed over to see him I found a gloopy blood splodge on his mat - it almost looks like boar glue - and as you can see it's all over his chin as well - I wasn't holding him roughly - although I know it looks a bit mean. Is this normal for what he has going on, whilst he recovers - he previously bled a little from his little peen, but that seems like a lot of blood - think he was pooping and he ate the poop afterwards which is why he has blood all over his face.

 

[Bill & Ted]

Have you tried Emeraid sustain? I have found all my GP’s like it compared to other recovery foods

 

[Merab]

Mine love Oxbow Critical Care with added mashed banana.
I have rarely had a problem syringe feeding that.

I also put a ramekin dish of the mix in the cage so it’s always available, like @Swissgreys has said.
I probably learned that tip here.
Yes, any companions will help eat it, but that’s not a problem.

Hope your boy perks up soon.
Look after yourself too, it’s exhausting caring for a sick piggy.

 

[Wiebke]

The porridge oats is a really good idea, I'll definitely try those this evening - thank you Two_Wheeks. I did try some melon juice earlier SwissGreys and sadly he saw right through me and refused.

Famous last words on my last post - I was upstairs with the pigs and Gus let out a huge squeak and when I rushed over to see him I found a gloopy blood splodge on his mat - it almost looks like boar glue - and as you can see it's all over his chin as well - I wasn't holding him roughly - although I know it looks a bit mean. Is this normal for what he has going on, whilst he recovers - he previously bled a little from his little peen, but that seems like a lot of blood - think he was pooping and he ate the poop afterwards which is why he has blood all over his face.

No, that is not normal. Has his penis been checked for potential issues like sperm rods etc? He has certainly had a check at what has come out of the other end, poor boy!

 

[Sunnyandbutch]

I would try some low sugar baby food as a last resort. Pumpkin purée and apple sauce also would work. You can try puréeing some fruit and veggies on your own. Mix this in with critical care and it should probably do the trick taste wise. If you have access to safe fresh grass you can also try pureeing that and mixing in with critical care. Soak and mash pellets to mix with the critical care to add more nutrients. I would stop feeding cranberry juice it has been proven not really to work with UTI’s. Mash up ”soft” fruit like banana and feed, it’s not super healthy but it keeps some weight. Try to take him to a diff vet that can keep him overnight. Give lots of fresh water. I hope he gets better caring for a sick piggy is stressfull. Sending you my best wishes.

 

[annaandpigs]

Hey guys,

Bill+Ted - he's actually currently on the Emeraid critical care - he hates it - I think someone might have force fed him with that too hard when he was getting in treatment because I tried again with it today and he was just utterly depressed all day. He's never like that on the pellets. But I've heard all other piggies love it too!
Merab's Slave - I have this too, but I did get the aniseed flavour which I've heard piggies don't really like - do you think I should try the banana flavour? And thank you - I'm worried if I put any in his cage, his cage mate will eat it all immediately as he's a very greedy little pig (not so little tbh)
Wiebke - I thought not - I did wonder if he'd just had a little 'time' with himself and maybe immediately pooped on it - but will call vet in the morning to check it out.
Sunnyandbutch - thank you, I'll try that - the only thing he'll willingly eat is grass - so it could definitely help - it's just a shame the grass in my garden is so poor after the Winter.

Thanks all again for your kind wishes. He's given me a couple of scares tonight - falling asleep and being very still but I think he's just exhausted - we just went outside to have a night grass picnic (I made him a little jumper out of a tea towel) and he's perked up a bit again. His Dad will hopefully be home within the next 48 hours which I'm thrilled about - it's so hard doing this on your own.