Slightly off behaviour- should I be worried?

[CTWC]

Just as regards to the Metacam has one of the experts checked the dose and type she's on?

 

[LucyP]

Thanks that means a lot. Heading back to the vets now as she’s still not right and much as I hate to stress her and wanted to manage this at home, we don’t want to miss anything. I know the digestive issues and appetite can take a while to straighten out but it’s her general demeanour I’m not feeling happy about.

 

[LucyP]

Just as regards to the Metacam has one of the experts checked the dose and type she's on?

Yes they have thanks very much for asking as it’s often confusing I know with metacam. the vet approved it and told us the dose to use. It’s the dog version. Thank you

 

[LucyP]

Update- the vet can’t find any obvious cause for her symptoms but can’t rule out an infection, so we have an antibiotic if we want to try that. He said these kind of digestive/bloat wobbles in pigs Winnie’s age can be the sign of something underlying but without further tests or clues there’s no way of knowing. Her x ray (albeit an emergency one with blurred images) did not show any obvious clues.

So we’ll keep working on her weight/intake appetite, maybe try the AB and see how she goes.
She took 15ml feed in the night but is still not eating enough hay on her own.

 

[LucyP]

Btw the antibiotic she has been prescribed is co-trimoxazle. As this is a bit speculative (in case she has respiratory infection or UTI) rather than a solid suspicion of infection, it’s a bit of a stab in the dark and we’re going to wait another day before starting is as her poos have been getting better each day and we know in the past she’s had a reaction to some ABs. The other option is blood tests and further scans but given her age and current condition and previous issues, we don’t really want to do that.

 

[Wiebke]

Btw the antibiotic she has been prescribed is co-trimoxazle. As this is a bit speculative (in case she has respiratory infection or UTI) rather than a solid suspicion of infection, it’s a bit of a stab in the dark and we’re going to wait another day before starting is as her poos have been getting better each day and we know in the past she’s had a reaction to some ABs. The other option is blood tests and further scans but given her age and current condition and previous issues, we don’t really want to do that.

Co-trimoxazole is one part of the active ingredient in the old bactrim/septrin, if that helps you?

All the best. Vague symptoms are always so hard to diagnose and deal with for a vet as well as us owners.

 

[LucyP]

Thanks Wiekbe, seems like a sensible choice for a possible infection and hopefully not too bad on the gut but we know it can be and as she’s still struggling to eat it’s a worry. We have pro C and fibreolex so could try one of those but I know it may still knock her appetite.

Yes it’s the vagueness that’s tough isn’t it, and we don’t want to put her body through intense investigations unless it would change the course of action. At the moment we don’t know if we’re dealing with an acute issue or something more chronic. He did say there was no sign of bloat today which is good but it could come back so we need to be careful there too.

The other vet says that piggies are a ‘mystery wrapped up in an enigma’ and I think she’s not wrong!l. It’s so frustrating for all. Poor little bub.

Thanks

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks Wiekbe, seems like a sensible choice for a possible infection and hopefully not too bad on the gut but we know it can be and as she’s still struggling to eat it’s a worry. We have pro C and fibreolex so could try one of those but I know it may still knock her appetite.

Yes it’s the vagueness that’s tough isn’t it, and we don’t want to put her body through intense investigations unless it would change the course of action. At the moment we don’t know if we’re dealing with an acute issue or something more chronic. He did say there was no sign of bloat today which is good but it could come back so we need to be careful there too.

The other vet says that piggies are a ‘mystery wrapped up in an enigma’ and I think she’s not wrong!l. It’s so frustrating for all. Poor little bub.

Thanks

Having been there often enough, I totally feel for you! vague symptoms and mystery weight loss are my least favourite health problems because so many different things can be behind it.

No, septrin/bactrim is generally easier on the tummy. We see a lot less posts about problems with it compared to baytril (enrofloxacin), and it is not just down to the fact that baytril is still by far the most prescribed antibiotic for guinea pigs; we also have a bit of an informal control group going in our regular members and how often they run into antibiotic trouble with their own piggies. However, any antibiotic can cause an adverse reaction but thankfully even with baytril the majority of piggies are not badly affected.

 

[LucyP]

Having been there often enough, I totally feel for you! vague symptoms and mystery weight loss are my least favourite health problems because so many different things can be behind it.

No, septrin/bactrim is generally easier on the tummy. We see a lot less posts about problems with it compared to baytril (enrofloxacin), and it is not just down to the fact that baytril is still by far the most prescribed antibiotic for guinea pigs; we also have a bit of an informal control group going in our regular members and how often they run into antibiotic trouble with their own piggies. However, any antibiotic can cause an adverse reaction but thankfully even with baytril the majority of piggies are not badly affected.

Thanks, that’s really helpful.

PS her bestie Dottie seems to have found their trip to the vets totally exhausting! Some massive yawns and flop downs from her…

 

[Merab]

Hope the antibiotics do help her.

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks, that’s really helpful.

PS her bestie Dottie seems to have found their trip to the vets totally exhausting! Some massive yawns and flop downs from her…

View attachment 267626

Dottie reminds me of my adult Tegan (the baby in avatar picture on the left) and Dottie was Nerys's name (the large teddy in my avatar) when I adopted her.

(Tegan 'Little Beauty' 2011-19)

 

[LucyP]

Dottie reminds me of my adult Tegan (the baby in avatar picture on the left) and Dottie was Nerys's name (the large teddy in my avatar) when I adopted her.

(Tegan 'Little Beauty' 2011-19)
View attachment 267638

That’s so funny! Tegan and Nerys both look lovely. Tegan looks so chilled in that fleece! Dottie came to us via hazelcroft rescue (where the owner Sarah spoke very highly of you btw!). Dottie has settled in well and gone from a terrified piggy to quite the entitled lady who will headbutt whatever hidey or hammock she’s in when she wants to be hand fed (she seems to think her residence comes with 24 hour waitress service). She’s a real character and a sweetheart and I think Winnie definitely appreciates her company on all these vet trips.

 

[Wiebke]

That’s so funny! Tegan and Nerys both look lovely. Tegan looks so chilled in that fleece! Dottie came to us via hazelcroft rescue (where the owner Sarah spoke very highly of you btw!). Dottie has settled in well and gone from a terrified piggy to quite the entitled lady who will headbutt whatever hidey or hammock she’s in when she wants to be hand fed (she seems to think her residence comes with 24 hour waitress service). She’s a real character and a sweetheart and I think Winnie definitely appreciates her company on all these vet trips.

My two runty girls Llinos and Llawen are from Hazelcroft (they are both just around 600g). I met Sarah when we went to pick them up and was impressed by her, too. They are now coming up to 4 years already - how time flies!

 

[LucyP]

Oh how lovely, and what little ones they must be! Dottie and Winnie are both under a kilo and look very sweet together. Our others have been big lumps who are really adorable in their own way!

I went to syringe feed Winnie in the night but after a tiny bit she decided to tuck into the hay with great enthusiasm instead, so I left her to it happy to say she seems much perkier today and bright eyed again and has gained a few grams. Poos are getting closer to normal as well. We haven’t actually started the ABs yet as the vet agreed they were speculative rather than definitely indicated, so we thought we’d let her keep going as she is for now, and see how the next day or so goes. Her watery eye is currently looking normal again. What a puzzle they are but we must take the good days when we have them!
Thanks again

 

[Wiebke]

Oh how lovely, and what little ones they must be! Dottie and Winnie are both under a kilo and look very sweet together. Our others have been big lumps who are really adorable in their own way!

I went to syringe feed Winnie in the night but after a tiny bit she decided to tuck into the hay with great enthusiasm instead, so I left her to it happy to say she seems much perkier today and bright eyed again and has gained a few grams. Poos are getting closer to normal as well. We haven’t actually started the ABs yet as the vet agreed they were speculative rather than definitely indicated, so we thought we’d let her keep going as she is for now, and see how the next day or so goes. Her watery eye is currently looking normal again. What a puzzle they are but we must take the good days when we have them!
Thanks again

These are my little 'Birdies': Dryw 'Wren' (now coming up to 6 years old, she's another rescue born) with cousins Lleian 'Smew' and Llinos 'Linnet' who will be turning 4 years in July; they were born just a week apart to a pair of closely bonded sisters (?) who were rehomed as a pair. They are my little madcap firecrackers.



You can find a picture list of all my Tribe piggies with their stories since I joined the forum in this link here (which is also in my signature) in order of arrival in this link here: Wiebke's Tribe Photo Gallery

I have a bit of a blog here: Wiebke's Tribe: Sows and the City Boars

 

[LucyP]

Winnie says thanks to everyone for all the support this week. She’s back to begging from atop her wicker - not too shabby for a pensioner piggy

 

[Wiebke]

So lovely to see!

 

[LucyP]

Thanks for all your advice.

 

[CTWC]

 

[dongzheng]

Hello all, sad to be returning to this thread but I wondered what the wise owls on this forum might make of Winnie’s current situation.

We are in daily contact with our exotic vets by the way.

Since the tummy issues mentioned above (dihorea, lethargy, loss of appetite) after treatment she seemed to be doing well and back to normal.

Then on Saturday we thought she looked a bit bloated/big, her sides felt a bit firmer to the touch, although not rock hard. Otherwise she was on good form, eating well and pooing well, alert and active.

I think influenced by the fact we’ve previously lost a beloved pig to sudden onset bloat, and because of Winnie’s recent digestive issues, we panicked and took her straight to the vet as we emergency. She was rushed to the hospital area and upon examination appeared to be in pain, so she was given strong pain relief - Buprelieve. She then had an x ray which was hard to read because of her moving around but showed some gas.

We brought her home with some ritanidine for the gas.

She was really spaced out after the Buprelieve (not eating for herself or really moving and didn’t seem with it) …when I told the vet, they explained they’d given her a very small dose (1/4 of the usual I think) and this reaction is unusual at that dose but they agreed her sudden change in demeanour especially being so zoned out, was likely to do with the Buprelieve. She was really spaced out, a bit like they can be after GA.

She also started doing soft poos, although mostly formed, similar to how they were a few weeks ago, dark and quite wet.

Last night (Sunday) she perked up and started behaving more normally, eating for herself more although still spending some time looking a bit zoned out and on her own.

We’ve been feeding her critical care around the clock but her hay intake is looking more normal now so subject to daily monitoring of weight, we will gradually reduce the top up feeds if she keeps eating well. She’s also happily taking a few nuggets now which she wasn’t before.

What concerned us late last night was a strange movement where she sort of rocked forward on her front leg 5-6 times, a sort of jerking movement, almost like when you’re falling asleep and you jerk your a bit, but her leg? I’ve sent the video to the vets now.

Winnie leg movement

Our other concern is she made a couple of noises this morning that may sugggest discomfort (just when standing in her little hidey house), two squeaks and then a small grunt. I’ve read the pain guide here and understand that her noises may mean pain. I’ve asked the vets if we can try her on some metacam (we have some in date and neither we nor the vets want to put her on bupe again).

Her physical exam and x ray showed no obvious cause of underlying disease or pain but the x ray wasn’t the best (it was done as an emergency to check for anything major and quite blurry). They said her heart rate was high but we know that could be the vet environment. Poor thing hates the vets. I’d like to not rush her back in again unless she really needs it and see how she does at home for at least today.

Any thoughts what the rocking/leg jerk could be? She hasn’t done it since last night. But she did it on the floor of her cage too so it wasn’t just about being on a lap. Maybe this is wobliness from the bupe?

Maybe her discomfort is gas related and will pass. That’s what I’m hoping. She’s still on ritanidine for a few more days. I’m aware it could be something else underlying.

She has recently turned 6. She’s had ovarian cysts diagnosed since she was 1 but they’re very small and have never grown or caused problems.

Any thoughts on the jerking motion or other ideas would be welcome. I’ll also update on what the vets say (they are calling me back in a bit).

Right now she’s pretty perky, wheeked for her food, munching on hay and is still taking top up feeds with interest. So this good but I am worried overall.

Many thanks
Lucy

Hello, how do you do? When you mention convulsions, are you referring to the manner depicted in the video?

 

[dongzheng]

大家好，很遗憾回到这个帖子，但我很想知道论坛里的各位智者对Winnie目前的码头有什么看法。

顺便提一下，我们每天都与我们的异宠兽医保持联系。

后来，她出现了上述的胃部问题（腹泻、嗜睡、体重不振），但看起来恢复得很好，一切都恢复正常了。

周六我们觉得她看起来有点胀气/肚子大了一些，摸起来气压也有点硬了一些，但还没有硬到像石头一样。除此之外，她状态很好，吃拉撒都正常，精神也不错，很活跃。

我想，可能是因为我们失去了一头心爱的猪，它得了突发性胃胀气，再加上Winnie最近也有消化问题，所以我们很慌张，立刻把她送进了急诊兽医那里。她被紧急送进医院，后来检查发现注射了她很痛苦，于是兽医给她开了强效止痛药——布普列芬（Buprelieve）。之后她之前拍了X光片，她一直在动，所以很难清，但还是显示出了一些肺炎。

我们给她带了一些利他的定剂，用来止胀气，然后把她带回了家。

服用布洛芬后，她精神恍惚（不吃东西，也不怎么动，看上去神志不清）……我告诉兽医后，他们解释说他们她服用的剂量非常小（我想只有定期规定的剂量），这种反应在这种剂量下并不常见，但他们也认为她突然的异常变化，尤其是精神恍惚的状态，很可能与布洛芬有关。她精神恍惚，有点像全身麻醉后的情况。

她也开始拉稀，虽然大部分已经定型，但和几周前的情况类似，颜色深，而且很湿。

昨晚（周日），她精神好转，开始表现得更正常了，也开始自己吃东西，尽管仍然会花一些时间有些心不在焉，独自一人待着。

我们一直给她喂重症监护饲料，但她现在的干草摄入量看起来比较正常了，所以如果她继续保持良好的体重，我们会每天监测她的体重，并逐步减少补充饲料的量。现在她也很乐意吃一些颗粒饲料，这在以前是不允许的。

昨晚深夜让我们担心她会发生一个奇怪的动作，她的前腿向前摇晃了五六次，有点像抽完，就像你快睡着的时候身体轻微颤抖，但她的腿却有这种动作？我已经把视频发给兽医了。

温妮的前置动作

我们另一个担心的是，她今天早上发出了一些声音，可能表示她不舒服（当时她正站在她的小窝里），两声吱声，然后就是有点咕哝。我读过这里的疼痛指南，说明她发出这些声音可能意味着疼痛。我已经问过兽医，我们是否可以给她试一下美洛昔康（我们还有一些还在里面的，而且我们和兽医都不想再让她服用丁丙诺啡了）。

她的检查和X光片显示没有明显的潜在疾病或疼痛原因，但X光片效果不太好（是紧急做的，为了检查是否有严重问题，所以很模糊）。医生说她很快就知道了，但我们这可能是兽医诊所环境造成的。可怜的小家伙很讨厌兽医诊所。除非她真的需要，否则我不想急着带她再去，至少今天先看看她在家里的情况。

大家都觉得她摇晃/前置抽动可能是什么原因呢？她从昨晚之后就再过了这样。不过她之前在笼子底下也这样，所以不只是在人腿上才会这样。会不会是丁丙诺丁引起的摇晃？

也许她的不平衡是胀气引起的，过几天就会好。我希望如此。她还要再服用几天利他定。我知道也可能是其他潜在的问题。

她最近刚满6岁。她从1岁起就被诊断出胎儿囊肿，但囊肿缩小，从未增大或引起任何问题。

关于这一突发事件或其他方面，欢迎大家提出任何想法。我也及时更新兽医们的诊断结果（他们稍后会给我回电话）。

她现在精神还不错，叫着要吃东西，津津有味地啃着干草，也饶有兴致地吃着补充饲料。这很好，但我总的来说还是有点担心。

非常感谢
露西

你好，你好吗？你提到的那个时刻，是指视频中描述的那种情况吗？

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[dongzheng]

你好

遗憾的是，我们很难说究竟是什么原因导致了这些短暂的抖动。

您用的是哪种美洛昔康——猫用（0.5毫克/毫升）还是狗用（1.5毫克/毫升）？狗用美洛昔康的浓度是猫用的三倍，所以差别很大。
兽用雷尼替丁曾以“善胃得”（Zantac）的商品名在英国销售，但几年前被召回。它是治疗豚鼠胀气最有效的药物，但由于新版本重新上市后，全球对人用雷尼替丁的需求量巨大，兽医很难获得这种药物。

丁丙诺啡是一种吗啡类药物。有些豚鼠对任何药物都比较敏感，即使剂量较低也会出现神游状态。

现在吗啡已经排出体外，祝您使用美洛昔康一切顺利。

Could you try and squeeze a little cucumber juice in the water you syringe so it smells of cucumber and may be more welcome?

As my child previously disliked drinking water, my vet advised me to purchase Oral Rehydration Salts III for her.
Form: This product is a white crystalline powder.
Composition: 5.125g: Sodium chloride 0.65g, Potassium chloride 0.375g, Sodium citrate 0.725g and Anhydrous glucose 3.375g.
Primarily used to prevent and treat mild to moderate dehydration caused by diarrhoea in all age groups, while replenishing electrolytes such as sodium, potassium, and chloride.
Since using this, she now drinks around 100 litres of water daily on her own. I wonder if similar electrolyte solutions are recommended in your country.

 

[dongzheng]

Hi

Unfortunately, it is rather impossible to say what exactly is causing the little temporary jerks.

Which metacam do you have - cat (0.5 mg/ml) or dog (1.5 mg/ml)? The dog metacam is 3 times stronger so it makes a difference.
Veterinary ranitidine used to be prescribed as zantac in the UK before it was recalled some years ago. It is the most effective anti-bloating drug for guinea pigs but is hard to get hold of for vets due to a massive worldwide over-demand for human use since a new version has come back onto the market.

Buprenorphine is a morphine. Some piggies are more sensitive to any medication so they can space out even at lower dosages.

Wishing you all the best with the metacam, now that the morphine is out of the body.

Hello everyone, I'd like to ask you a question. The medication you mentioned is called Ranitidine (Zantac) (it's the most effective treatment for guinea pig bloating). IUPAC name:
N-(2-[(5-[(Dimethylamino)methyl]furan-2-yl)methylthio]ethyl)-N'-methyl-2-nitroethene-1,1-diamine
Molecular formula: C₁₃H₂₂N₄O₃S
Please forgive my verbosity, but in our country this medication is solely used to protect the gastric mucosa and has no recognised effect on relieving bloating. I fear administering the wrong medication to my little one, hence I consider the chemical name and molecular formula to be the indispensable "gold standard" in scenarios requiring absolute precision in identification.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Hello everyone, I'd like to ask you a question. The medication you mentioned is called Ranitidine (Zantac) (it's the most effective treatment for guinea pig bloating). IUPAC name:
N-(2-[(5-[(Dimethylamino)methyl]furan-2-yl)methylthio]ethyl)-N'-methyl-2-nitroethene-1,1-diamine
Molecular formula: C₁₃H₂₂N₄O₃S
Please forgive my verbosity, but in our country this medication is solely used to protect the gastric mucosa and has no recognised effect on relieving bloating. I fear administering the wrong medication to my little one, hence I consider the chemical name and molecular formula to be the indispensable "gold standard" in scenarios requiring absolute precision in identification.

@dongzheng
It is a gut motility drug - it helps keep the gut moving and helps move gas out of the gut. Therefore it is used in cases of gut stasis and bloat. There are several gut motility drugs (another being metoclopromide) but they all work on different parts of the gut.
As i have explained to you on your own threads, only a vet can tell you which medication is right for your guinea pig.
The molecular formula means nothing to most of us - we are just owners and, in accordance with our laws, it’s up to the vets to tell us what medications are needed.

Rehydration fluids are used here when a piggy is suffering with diarrhoea, but they are stopped being given once the diarrhoea has stopped. We would not continue with them once piggy is feeling better.
The amount of water each piggy will drink varies wildly - some don’t drink much, others drink more but as long as there is not a sudden decrease or sudden increase in fluid intake then both ends of the spectrum can be considered normal.
(100 litres per day is obviously a translation issue (and it should probably say 100ml) given that is far too much water for any animal to drink).

Please can you ask questions on your own thread; or start a new thread if it’s about a new matter.
Please don’t ask your own questions on threads belonging to other people - it causes confusion and detracts from the original member’s post.
Please also don’t reopen old threads by commenting on them - please check dates before you post anything. Reopening old threads pushes new threads down the list and means we risk missing a new post needing help.