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Small Poos And Possible Difficulty Passing?

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Blood results are in and sadly they've confirmed we're dealing with some sort of renal failure/compromised renal function as his creatinine levels are very high. He's not showing as anaemic but it does look like there has been a fair amount of blood and protein loss through his urine which explains his continual weight loss.

Haven't had a chance to talk to Anne yet but a change to tramadol seems the next step.

He has his bad moments when you can tell he's not comfortable but still perks right up for food etc. put him on a hot water bottle earlier in hopes of easing his discomfort between metacam doses and he really enjoyed it - and also did several normal poos! (Small victories!).

@helen105281 - do you think metatone would still help him considering the confirmed diagnosis?
 
JackJack1 said:
Has his anal glands been emptied. This sometimes causes straining and pain.
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He's completely clean and blockage free - the poo trouble was just an unfortunate side effect of his renal faillure :(
 
Awww Tbag...I'm so sorry to hear this.

We have one record on the forum of a successful (and pioneering) operation to remove a stone from the ureter ...(Glenn at Apex in Scotland and Flintstone's famous boy Patrick.) Most vets however would not attempt an op of this nature (and even if they did, it would depend upon the stone position/size etc etc.)

It's good to hear that Tango is still relatively perky so what you are going to have do now is decide an appropriate palliative care plan with Anne. Although you can;t cure Tango...you can ensure he enjoys many many happy piggie years to come.

I'd hold off on metatone until you've discussed it with Anne as part of his overall care programme. Where you are dealing with cases of chronic renal disease" (which is what Tango has) then you need to ensure you keep the ionic balances between sodium, potassium and calcium (and also magnesium) with associated vitamins such as B, C and K series "just right" otherrwise you could accelerate the disease....or worse still, cause a sudden acute kidney failure.

As far as pain relief is concerned - yes I would recommend going the tramadol route. It is far more effective at pain relief than metacam for these types of deep-seated pain issues...and long term metacam is known to affect kidney function. Metacam reduces pain because it reduces inflammation/swelling of soft tissue....Tango has a solid object blocking a ureter. Pain rather than inflammation is the key issue in his case.
However I would also ask for a stock of gut motility meds (metoclop and zantac) just in case he has little hiccoughs with his gut (that way you just ring the vet for authorisation rather than take him in each time)

Other points to discuss:
Dietary-wise, you need to address calcium/phosphate ratios in terms of green veggies/pellets....and you might want to up the Vit C or consider Potassium citrate (as the "theory" is that they can help flush through calcium ions in water soluble form and prevent them depositing on the stone and letting it grow bigger).
Destolit - used for dogs with gall-bladder stones to reduce stone-size - has been used on guinea pigs in the USA. We tried this on my guinea pig with multiple kidney stones but sadly it didn;t shrink them
Shi Lin Tong....it has been shown to be effective in preventing new stone formation in pigs the USA...but it won;t dissolve his current stone

The most important thing however is fluid management. Give extra fluids (water) and plenty of dandelion leaves (mild diuretics) to keep the kidneys working.

I'm sure there'll be other things we can all can think of ....give me a bell if you want to discuss anything

It's good you now know what you're dealing with.....and whilst the condition is not curable...it is manageable and Tango can continue to enjoy/live a normal guinea pig life.

Hugs.....and wheeks from the Pebble piggies
x
 
Thanks @Pebble - loads of helpful information as always!

He's definitely a little trooper so just want him to be able to enjoy as much as he can still.

Just got off the phone with Anne and we're going to trial tramadol for a week and fingers crossed it'll agree with him so we can switch permanently. Also doing a short course of septrin to give him a bit of a boost/protection from any opportunists! Keeping fibreplex to hand as that seems to have made the most impact on his tummy.

What's a good source of potassium citrate? I've cut all calcium high veg and trying to add a few things to try keep his weight up. Guinea lynx had dandelion leaves as being quite calcium high? Would it be better to give lots of cucumber/watery veg instead? He's taking lots of extra fluid whenever I offer - such a good little boy!
 
I'm dealing with a piggie with possible end-stage renal failure tonight so will have to go off-line soon.

a) Good - tramadol is fine - it is an opiate but so far I have only had one piggie who gets a bit "spaced out" on it. Rest (>10 pigs) have had no gut slowing down problems which is the big worry.
b) Septrin - OK to prevent bladder UTI's but be advised that more recent research/information is that it has also been associated with causing crystal formation/interstitial cystitis in urinary pigs
c) Fibreplex is great
d) Cymalon liquid in the UK was a good source of potassium citrate - but I think it has been discontinued..and all Cyamlon products are now sodium instead of potassium......you will need to try find an alternative (google is your friend!)
e) Keep the dandelion leaves in and take something else out....they are invaluable for their natural herbage, non-bloat and diuretic properties......
f) cucumber on top is fine. The rest of the veg I can;t comment on....spinach/kale/brassicas is not necessarily good for urinary pigs..neither is cos/romaine lettuce Peppers/finely chopped celery are fine..the odd baby corn is fine...carrots once/twice a week are fine....dried herbage (dandelion delight and clover and plantain mix from Woodlands are great). Also dried silver birch leaves are good for urinary issues apparently...(and judging by the way my urinary piggies woofed these down I tend to agree!)
g) keep the fluids going if he will take them

Sorry but need to sign off now
x
 
Awww your poor boy :( This is the Potassium Citrate I used for Petal : http://www.lloydspharmacy.com/en/care-potassium-citrate-mixture-200ml-10064 as far as I know they still sell it. This is the exact same one my vet used when she had a very bad few weeks with her chronic cystitis. Please check with Pebble first though before using as I believe it works by clumping the calcium together so it is passed more quickly/easily. This may not be a good idea in your boy's case. Has your vet recommended it?
 
That's the one!

Glad to see they still sell it Poppy's mum.....as last month I tried to find an outlet to get some but couldn;t.

Must go now........

x
 
I am so sorry about Tango hun. You know where i am if you ever want to talk. Sending lots of love to you and the boys. Wishing Tango all the best bless him x
 
@Pebble how is Carson this morning? Fingers crossed he is ok and did lots more pee for you!

Thank you both for the info on potassium citrate - I will mention it to Anne when I report next week on the tramadol progress. Also interesting to know about septrin, I'll keep a close eye on him during treatment and stop if things look like they're worsening. We chose that as opposed to baytril as he responded much better to that in the past.

Would dried dandelion be as effective as fresh? We don't have ANY(!) in our garden at all, and anyone I know with them has a lot of garden car traffic so would be hesitant to use. Will try get my hands on that woodlands mix in the meantime, think I saw some at the vets so can pick up on Saturday with the tramadol.

...he's not going to be happy about coming off the metacam that's for sure! Proper little junkie on my hands now!
 
Tramodol is more effective than Metacam in my piggies case :) Regarding Septrin, ask for Marbocyl instead if you want to, we generally use that as Petal doesn't get an upset tummy whilst on it & it doesn't usually have to nasty effects like Baytril does :)
 
Thanks! Yes I was reading a lot of posts on here yesterday about tramadol and really doesn't seem to have any bad feedback so fingers crossed. Only difficulty will be breaking the tablets into little bits for dosage!
For now the anti biotics are more of provisional measure but if he does end up with long term UTIs I'll ask about marbocyl.

What with his glucosamine solution, metacam, regular "smoothie water" sessions, fibreplex and now septrin he's a bit of a syringe king. I'd be fed up if some crazy woman was trying to poke them in my mouth every other minute but he still tries to drag them out of my hands!
 
Lol :D I also use that dried dandelion herbage Pebble recommends, mine all love it :) Your vet should mix the Tramodol up for you, it comes in a sticky sweet solution most piggies love lol :)
 
Haven's tramdol tabs were in capsule tablets, so mine i would break it in half and pour the powder in the water, then syringe the dosage. How is Tango today? x
 
I was thinking I might have to do something similar @jenniferanneharris so it's good to know it works!

I was just about to do a little update post on him - he's put on 100g since Sunday and was running around like a lunatic this evening (even playing behind the blinds which he's never done before - always a Cash/Wyatt thing til now). Also scoffing everything he can get his little chops on and taken about another 25mls or so of water.

:wub:
 
I have just read this. I am sorry it is not good news. He does sound like he is doing well today. You are both in my thoughts.
 
Aw bless him, So cute. So pleased he is doing well, bless him. How is Wyatt also? Hope he is looking after Tango x :) x
 
Thank you @piggyfan - I just want him to be as happy and as healthy as possible!

Wyatt has recently been enjoying standing on Tangos head...not sure if you can count that as looking after him haha
 
He's not tooo bad. Switched to tramadol yesterday, not quite sure if it's doing as much good as the metacam or if he is just beginning to look a bit dopey from it.

He was looking a bit puffy so we got him out on the hot water bottle which seemed to help - got a few poos out within minutes of being on it. Going to get a snuggle safe when paid so he's got something for when we're at work as it always seems to be mid morning he looks his worst.

Heres the little sausage enjoying his hot water bottle sofa time!
image.webp
 
Tbag said:
Thank you @piggyfan - I just want him to be as happy and as healthy as possible!

Wyatt has recently been enjoying standing on Tangos head...not sure if you can count that as looking after him haha
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Just to mention be careful with Wyatt to watch him. Guinea pigs can be quite dominant when they know another is under the weather. I had this with my guinea pig Jack. When Jack was poorly, Joe would try to dominate and stand on him. I guess it is cruel nature saying survival of the fittest.
 
Yes, been there and done that when Cash was ill. Wyatt is top pig anyway and is actually looking after Tango very attentively.
 
Awww gorgeous boy :love: It's awful having a sick piggy isn't it? I'm so tired with all the syringe feeds & stuff, been 2 weeks of it so far for me. Is he eating ok? x
 
Aw bless him. Big hugs to Tango. I really hope the pain meds are helping. Tramadol made Haven a bit dopey at first...but after a few days she was back to normal...just slept a little more. Hugs to you all. Tango is such a cutie and looks so cute with the hot water bottle....so snug :-)
 
He's still eating like a greedy pig so that's great really. Lost a bit of weight again but not a huge amount so I can live with that.

He really loves sitting on the hot water bottle and getting loads of fuss! The syringe feeding isn't too bad - I'm lucky as he's quite a well behaved patient! I'm dealing with the whole situation much better than I thought I would but it is very hard not to put a number on his days :(
 
Aw i totally understand hun. What ever happens, Tango is much loved and try and enjoy the days/ weeks/months/ years you do have with him. He sounds like such a special boy and he is suuuuuuper cute!

You are doing a fab job with him :) x x
 
Well he's still alert, responsive, eating, drinking and seemingly happy but unfortunately there's been a fair few blood spots in the cage this afternoon :(

So it looks like the condition is progressing rather aggressively and I'm not quite so sure of what to do anymore! :no:

We'd said that the minute he stopped enjoying life we'd make the hard choice but if he's losing this much blood it can't be good. Going to give metacam and tramadol tomorrow before leaving for work so he's fully boosted for when we won't be around.
 
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