Sow bit during bonding attempt

[thewheakybeans]

I’ve never attempted to bond a sow and neutered boar before. I’ve had my sow Espresso for four years and she’s been living side by side with new boy Martini for a few weeks while he healed from his neuter op.

They were introduced in a pop-up tent this evening with no issues, both quite calm eating together and doing the odd rumblestrutting (Espresso seemed to be chasing and trying to mount him more so I thought she’d be more dominant). I cleaned the entire cage, fresh bedding and bath mats, removed the divider and when they were put in it, Martini started launching at Espresso whenever she wandered to the side of the cage he’d been kept in over the last few weeks. I eventually separated them as she was being cornered, shaking in terror and he wasn’t letting her move. It’s only after I put the divider up, I noticed she has a bite and dry blood on her nose (pictured).

Is this a failed bonding now or would it be safe/possible to try again at a later date?
Also, do you reckon she’ll need vet attention for her nose? I’ve never had a guinea pig attack another one before so this is completely new territory for me.

 

[Wiebke]

I’ve never attempted to bond a sow and neutered boar before. I’ve had my sow Espresso for four years and she’s been living side by side with new boy Martini for a few weeks while he healed from his neuter op.

They were introduced in a pop-up tent this evening with no issues, both quite calm eating together and doing the odd rumblestrutting (Espresso seemed to be chasing and trying to mount him more so I thought she’d be more dominant). I cleaned the entire cage, fresh bedding and bath mats, removed the divider and when they were put in it, Martini started launching at Espresso whenever she wandered to the side of the cage he’d been kept in over the last few weeks. I eventually separated them as she was being cornered, shaking in terror and he wasn’t letting her move. It’s only after I put the divider up, I noticed she has a bite and dry blood on her nose (pictured).

Is this a failed bonding now or would it be safe/possible to try again at a later date?
Also, do you reckon she’ll need vet attention for her nose? I’ve never had a guinea pig attack another one before so this is completely new territory for me.

Hi

I am very sorry.

This is a classic defence bite from a fear-aggressive piggy very much on edge that feels trapped or cornered and that is instinctively reacting to movement.

Please see a vet as this is a very sensitive area. Defence bites are full-on deep bites and can do considerable damage (including lasting damage to a human hand).

The bonding has unfortunately failed.

Here is more information:
On defence bites:
- Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering and Cuddling Tips
- " Biting" And What You Can Do (Biting, Tweaking, Nibbling and Nipping)

On fear-aggression and fear-aggressive behaviours:
- Guinea Pig Behaviours in their Context (see chapter 7)
- Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated Bonding Dynamics and Behaviours (see chapter 6)

 

[Mrs Tiggy Winkle]

I'm sorry this has happened and I think it's good you rescued your sow for the moment.

I have a good number of sow and neutered boar bondings in my pig history and an injury like your sow has is something I've never experienced. It's a question of character-compatibility, I must have always been lucky plus some of my boars were neutered very early but that's not available in the UK.

Personally I'd want to be on the safe side and see a vet with sow's injured nostril, but there are others on the forum whose opinion will be fact-based, so do listen to them!

ETA good that Wiebke is up and about and answering rather than asleep in bed. She's given you all you need to know.

 

[Claire W]

I am very sorry that the bonding has failed I hope you can come up with a solution going forward x

 

[thewheakybeans]

Hi

I am very sorry.

This is a classic defence bite from a fear-aggressive piggy very much on edge that feels trapped or cornered and that is instinctively reacting to movement.

Please see a vet as this is a very sensitive area. Defence bites are full-on deep bites and can do considerable damage (including lasting damage to a human hand).

The bonding has unfortunately failed.

Here is more information:
On defence bites:
- Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering and Cuddling Tips
- " Biting" And What You Can Do (Biting, Tweaking, Nibbling and Nipping)

On fear-aggression and fear-aggressive behaviours:
- Guinea Pig Behaviours in their Context (see chapter 7)
- Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated Bonding Dynamics and Behaviours (see chapter 6)

Thanks for this advice, I’ll make a vet appointment for her first thing in the morning. I’m gutted it’s not worked out with this foster boy. It all seemed to be great when the bars were up but I don’t want to risk Espresso getting injured again either.

 

[Truffolo]

I'm sorry this has happened and I think it's good you rescued your sow for the moment.

I have a good number of sow and neutered boar bondings in my pig history and an injury like your sow has is something I've never experienced. It's a question of character-compatibility, I must have always been lucky plus some of my boars were neutered very early but that's not available in the UK.

Personally I'd want to be on the safe side and see a vet with sow's injured nostril, but there are others on the forum whose opinion will be fact-based, so do listen to them!

ETA good that Wiebke is up and about and answering rather than asleep in bed. She's given you all you need to know.

It's interesting that in some countries neutering is done early and possibly more routinely than in the UK. Did you find that the boars you had neutered recovered quickly? Also we're they more compatible with other neutered males - if you had pairs of boars or knew of boars paired up?

 

[Truffolo]

I’ve never attempted to bond a sow and neutered boar before. I’ve had my sow Espresso for four years and she’s been living side by side with new boy Martini for a few weeks while he healed from his neuter op.

They were introduced in a pop-up tent this evening with no issues, both quite calm eating together and doing the odd rumblestrutting (Espresso seemed to be chasing and trying to mount him more so I thought she’d be more dominant). I cleaned the entire cage, fresh bedding and bath mats, removed the divider and when they were put in it, Martini started launching at Espresso whenever she wandered to the side of the cage he’d been kept in over the last few weeks. I eventually separated them as she was being cornered, shaking in terror and he wasn’t letting her move. It’s only after I put the divider up, I noticed she has a bite and dry blood on her nose (pictured).

Is this a failed bonding now or would it be safe/possible to try again at a later date?
Also, do you reckon she’ll need vet attention for her nose? I’ve never had a guinea pig attack another one before so this is completely new territory for me.

Poor Espresso. I wonder if she has ovarian cysts and is acting more male as a result. Perhaps they can live side by side. My piggies, both males, do. I leave about 2" between the cages as Truffle has thrown himself against the side in the past. I might try moving the cages closer again to see if he is more tolerant. I think they are both quite relaxed and don't seem to mind being in separate cages. I live in a studio though and I am around alot to keep them company

 

[thewheakybeans]

Poor Espresso. I wonder if she has ovarian cysts and is acting more male as a result. Perhaps they can live side by side. My piggies, both males, do. I leave about 2" between the cages as Truffle has thrown himself against the side in the past. I might try moving the cages closer again to see if he is more tolerant. I think they are both quite relaxed and don't seem to mind being in separate cages. I live in a studio though and I am around alot to keep them company

It’s such a shame! Espresso has been spayed and only showed aggression with him when he started cornering her and lunging at her!

He comes from a very stressful background where he was sold by a pet shop and lived with three young males all fighting with each other which is why the rescue took them in. It explains his fear-aggression. I’ve contacted the rescue to see what the next steps might be. I was fostering him so not sure what they’ll suggest now.

 

[Mrs Tiggy Winkle]

It's interesting that in some countries neutering is done

RSBM

I’ll get back to you on this when on my computer next, tho possibly transferring it to one of my own threads so as not to derail here.

 

[Wiebke]

It's always hugely upsetting when a bonding goes totally pear-shaped.

Unfortunately, it takes experience and learning mistakes to pick up on the more subtle signs of body language in order to know that a bonding is not going to work out very early on. You are never get it all right because bonding is by no means as textbook as it looks like.

You can learn to recognise the various bonding stages but it is mostly about reading the piggies and understanding the subtleties of body language and the dynamics of their interaction. And learning to spot when things take a wrong turn or never start on the right foot but for that you need to learn what happens when it goes badly wrong so you can then heed the early warning signs and abort before it blows up. It's not something you can teach by textbook.

It takes the experience of failed bondings in order to learn to read the developing dynamics properly. Try not to beat yourself up but understand it as a learning opportunity.
It's not that difficult to become a good weather sailor but it takes some rough seas to make you a seasoned one. You always grow not so much from your successes but from your mistakes and failures. This applies to bondings as much as to any other craft. Every experienced rescue bonder will tell you the same.

You could have them live as next door neighbours (knowing that after that full-on bite they will never become friends) or you/the rescue could consider baby companionship for either - they cannot challenge a fear-aggressive piggy and can bring out the caring side in them after a suitable hiatus.
I have had some wonderful life-long love stories with 'unbondable' neutered boars and their adored little wifelets. The same also goes for fear-aggressive sows. I have had to hand back one or two failed bonders when I was simply out of place for starting up yet another cage due to fear-aggression.

Any baby adoptees of mine have always been in cases where an adult adopted piggy of mine could not gel with any existing Tribe groups or less dominant adult Tribe members and - with the notable exception of a dumped human-orientated ex-single sow - it has always worked. Beryn eventually fell for the squishiest and gentlest old lady survivor of a large group; but even then it took me 3 three weeks and Betsan's patience and sheer good nature to work past Beryn's overload.

Many of my Tribe adoptees have been 'unbondable' stuck in rescue piggies with social issues for who I found a partner for eventually; even if it meant on occasion that I needed to adopt a rescue born baby or sub-teenager for them as a last resort. Beryn (the ex-single) was the one big exception to that rule - she was quite literally scared stiff of a couple of lively babies...

 

[thewheakybeans]

It's always hugely upsetting when a bonding goes totally pear-shaped.

Unfortunately, it takes experience and learning mistakes to pick up on the more subtle signs of body language in order to know that a bonding is not going to work out very early on. You are never get it all right because bonding is by no means as textbook as it looks like.

You can learn to recognise the various bonding stages but it is mostly about reading the piggies and understanding the subtleties of body language and the dynamics of their interaction. And learning to spot when things take a wrong turn or never start on the right foot but for that you need to learn what happens when it goes badly wrong so you can then heed the early warning signs and abort before it blows up. It's not something you can teach by textbook.

It takes the experience of failed bondings in order to learn to read the developing dynamics properly. Try not to beat yourself up but understand it as a learning opportunity.
It's not that difficult to become a good weather sailor but it takes some rough seas to make you a seasoned one. You always grow not so much from your successes but from your mistakes and failures. This applies to bondings as much as to any other craft. Every experienced rescue bonder will tell you the same.

You could have them live as next door neighbours (knowing that after that full-on bite they will never become friends) or you/the rescue could consider baby companionship for either - they cannot challenge a fear-aggressive piggy and can bring out the caring side in them after a suitable hiatus.
I have had some wonderful life-long love stories with 'unbondable' neutered boars and their adored little wifelets. The same also goes for fear-aggressive sows. I have had to hand back one or two failed bonders when I was simply out of place for starting up yet another cage due to fear-aggression.

Any baby adoptees of mine have always been in cases where an adult adopted piggy of mine could not gel with any existing Tribe groups or less dominant adult Tribe members and - with the notable exception of a dumped human-orientated ex-single sow - it has always worked. Beryn eventually fell for the squishiest and gentlest old lady survivor of a large group; but even then it took me 3 three weeks and Betsan's patience and sheer good nature to work past Beryn's overload.

Many of my Tribe adoptees have been 'unbondable' stuck in rescue piggies with social issues for who I found a partner for eventually; even if it meant on occasion that I needed to adopt a rescue born baby or sub-teenager for them as a last resort. Beryn (the ex-single) was the one big exception to that rule - she was quite literally scared stiff of a couple of lively babies...

Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s particularly upsetting as I’ve had him for over three weeks so grown quite attached to him. I’ve spoken to the rescue and since he’s a foster, they’ve offered for me to return him so they can find him the best home possible and try another potential companion for Espresso as they’re obviously an unsuitable match.

Unfortunately I don’t have the space nor emotional bandwidth to take on any more piggies, even adorable babies, as I’m looking to take a break from guinea pig motherhood for a while once my older lady passes.

I’m hoping this will be the best outcome for the two of them rather than resigning them to half a cage each with bars in between. I’m optimistic the right companion is out there for them both!

 

[Truffolo]

Thanks for sharing your experience. It’s particularly upsetting as I’ve had him for over three weeks so grown quite attached to him. I’ve spoken to the rescue and since he’s a foster, they’ve offered for me to return him so they can find him the best home possible and try another potential companion for Espresso as they’re obviously an unsuitable match.

Unfortunately I don’t have the space nor emotional bandwidth to take on any more piggies, even adorable babies, as I’m looking to take a break from guinea pig motherhood for a while once my older lady passes.

I’m hoping this will be the best outcome for the two of them rather than resigning them to half a cage each with bars in between. I’m optimistic the right companion is out there for them both!

Fully understandable. I hope everyone can find happiness, change partners ❤