Sow query (LONG. I am sorry!)

[n3ss]

Hello everyone

It's been a while since i've been here! If any of you remember me, I have the little cream and white sow called Fudge who recently (June and July '12) lost her two cage mates (one male one female).
After some advice from everyone I looked into getting a male for my Fudge but despite thinking this was a good step forward I couldn't really bring myself to get another male after my previous boar. Snowy was so special to me that the idea of another male was too much for me. So we decided to look for a female.

We decided to not go down the pet shop route, because we thought that after adopting Snowy and how beautiful he was it would be kinder to adopt an older guinea pig who needed a new home or a younger one that needed one. After a little while of looking we gave up and funnily enough that's when we found Florrie. She was absolutely perfect and her nature was so gentle and timid that we thought for bossy Fudge she'd be a perfect match. Florrie had just had a litter of babies and when we came to take her home we realised one of her babies would be on her own. As we had the space in the cage (separate to Fudge) we decided we would take her with us too and give them a new start together.

We got them home and kept the two in a different cage but in the same room as Fudge. After a day or so of quarantine we let them meet each other in a playpen in another room that Fudge rarely went into. We put a pile of food in the middle and just stood in the doorway to observe. For the first half an hour they played and popcorned, cuddled up, everything was PERFECT. Then Fudge got a bit 'cosy' with the baby and Florrie went mental. Then they refused to get on again.
After a week or so if hard work and trying. Fudge really hurt the baby and gave her a nasty bite on her neck. We noticed that the behaviour of the other two had become nervous and scared towards us too and as guinea pig lovers this really upset us. It became a horrible decision of what was best for us and what was best for them.
Either we kept them separately because we loved them even though they were anxious towards us because of meeting Fudge. Or we let them go together to another home where they would be together and loved as a pair.
So we went for their best interests which was heartbreaking for my whole family - a few days were spent in tears I can admit

Anyway, I know this post is getting long (I am so sorry everyone! I just wanted to give some background insight!) but basically Fudge has been alone now for a near two months. She's very content by herself she was always fiercely independent, but she calls out sometimes by herself and always seems to 'look' for her old friends. This breaks my heart because they really are like my children. I love my guinea pigs so much it hurts xoxo .

But yes, I was at work one day waiting for my Mum to come and pick me up
(22 and still don't drive...) and about half an hour before she arrived a woman came in with some younger children carrying a tuppleware lunchbox. She handed it to my colleague and said 'We don't want this anymore, her friend died at 3 days old and we want new ones. Take it.' and before we knew what had happened she ran out of the shop. For a shop next to the local pet shop we found this strange as on inspection of the tuppleware box inside was a small guinea pig. I'd say roughly about 4 months old.
My friend took her straight to the vets and she's all fine, just very shaky. They presumed 3-4 months of age too and she's a beautiful dark reddish girl. Anyway, when my mum arrived she immediately adored her.

We went home and we discussed it and weighed up the pros and cons of taking her with us and decided that we'd have a week to sort things at home (new cage, new everything) and then we'd take her. In the meantime my colleague took her with her. Now we have her and we've given her a week of extra quarantine, but she's the most lovely little pig. She's clearly been hurt as she's pulled the fur off her legs (no fungal infection, no mites!) and she's terrified of denim skirts, hands and men. This is upsetting but she's very fond of me now and comes up to say hello.

She met Fudge two nights ago, when I had her on my lap and Fudge was with my Dad. They were chatting and cuddling then suddenly Fudge went for her. Now they don't like even looking at each other.

My problem is I don't want to part with this little one as she's clearly so happy here with us but i'd love the two of them to be together and get along. We've tried segmenting the one cage and Fudge has literally charged at it, and got to Honey.
I heard about bathing them together? Would that help things? Or how far do i let them fight/growl at each other before I intervene? I just don't want either of them to get hurt badly.

Just so everyone can see my special babies (any advice on their breed or what colours they come under would be amazing!)

Above is Honey, my recent adopted baby girl <3

^ And that is my little Fudge, her hair is longer at the back towards her bottom also!

I'm sorry for the length of this, i get a bit carried away about my wiggles

Any advice would be so helpful and appreciated
xxxxx

 

[Lil-Ninnibig]

Personally if fudge keeps attacking every piggy you introduce her to she ia obviously to dominant to live safely with another pig. Why not keep both pigs, but in seperate indoor cages next to eachother so they both have eachothers company as in they can see smell hear and squeek at eachother but fudge cant attack your new baby. As for breeds id say they are both smoothcoat not sure if there colours have any specific name however your new baby does have markings similiar to a dutch markings. As for fudge i think shes one on her own. They are lovely though. They always say to not seperate pigs unless blood is drawn and it seems fudge has badly bitten your previous baby piggy and will be capable of doing it again. Id keep them seperate but close to eachother and enjoy your piggys :-)

 

[PAMELAKT]

What an absolute shame ;( and what beautiful little girls xx

I wonder if maybe Fudge is now a bit defensive after the experience with the other piggy. If it were me I wouldn't want to risk it. I don't think the lap is necessarily the best place to introduce as its a bit unnatural for them & Fudge sees you as hers maybe, did you say you had tried them in a pen together?

Its a bit of a dilemma isn't it, if you have the room I would probably keep them separated but next to each other so they can socially interact but have their own space. If you really love this girl which I'm sure you do, it may be the only way.

I think once they have a big fall out like this it's very risky & unlikely to change...

 

[SpinningNickel]

They are GORGEOUS. Fudge is beeeautiful but she sounds a little monster! (Please don't be offended, I say that with complete affection because I'm in love just looking at her!)

I don't have any experience with sows, personally, but from what I've read it doesn't seem likely that Fudge is going to change her mind on living with Honey. The idea with bathing them together is that it makes them both smell the same. This is often done with boars but can help females too. However, I think that really assumes they haven't already fallen out, which it looks like yours have, so I wouldn't expect it to help much.

I'd second putting them next to each other, but separated. Do you have a C&C set-up you can easily divide down the middle? Maybe in time they'd get used to each other through the bars and you could house them together down the line -- maybe Fudge just needs more time. How old is Fudge? They both look young, but considering she went after a baby before, if Honey is a lot smaller than her I'm wondering if she just bullies those a lot smaller than her? It doesn't sound reading your post like she went for the mum last time, just the baby, which is interesting. Maybe once Honey is bigger, as well, that could help.

I definitely wouldn't force the issue right now though, especially if Honey show signs of previous abuse. She needs to feel as secure as possible, and Fudge obviously isn't prepared to give her that right now!

And I repeat: BEYOND gorgeous! drool

 

[n3ss]

They are GORGEOUS. Fudge is beeeautiful but she sounds a little monster! (Please don't be offended, I say that with complete affection because I'm in love just looking at her!)

I don't have any experience with sows, personally, but from what I've read it doesn't seem likely that Fudge is going to change her mind on living with Honey. The idea with bathing them together is that it makes them both smell the same. This is often done with boars but can help females too. However, I think that really assumes they haven't already fallen out, which it looks like yours have, so I wouldn't expect it to help much.

I'd second putting them next to each other, but separated. Do you have a C&C set-up you can easily divide down the middle? Maybe in time they'd get used to each other through the bars and you could house them together down the line -- maybe Fudge just needs more time. How old is Fudge? They both look young, but considering she went after a baby before, if Honey is a lot smaller than her I'm wondering if she just bullies those a lot smaller than her? It doesn't sound reading your post like she went for the mum last time, just the baby, which is interesting. Maybe once Honey is bigger, as well, that could help.

I definitely wouldn't force the issue right now though, especially if Honey show signs of previous abuse. She needs to feel as secure as possible, and Fudge obviously isn't prepared to give her that right now!

And I repeat: BEYOND gorgeous! drool

Thank you
Haha don't worry she is an absolute little minx, but i think that's why she coped so well after losing her friends. Her sister and boy were so calm, she was the little bit of spice in the cage!
I have two large cages but nothing I can divide them with. We did a makeshift one using parts of a playpen to separate but Fudge knocked through it (little madam).
Last time she did 'start on' Florrie (Mum) but she left it when Florrie was stroppy back towards her!

I wish they'd get along but i think she probably is just going to be a little lone ranger <3 x

 

[n3ss]

What an absolute shame ;( and what beautiful little girls xx

I wonder if maybe Fudge is now a bit defensive after the experience with the other piggy. If it were me I wouldn't want to risk it. I don't think the lap is necessarily the best place to introduce as its a bit unnatural for them & Fudge sees you as hers maybe, did you say you had tried them in a pen together?

Its a bit of a dilemma isn't it, if you have the room I would probably keep them separated but next to each other so they can socially interact but have their own space. If you really love this girl which I'm sure you do, it may be the only way.

I think once they have a big fall out like this it's very risky & unlikely to change...

They were tried briefly in a cage set up, but Fudge knocked the barrier middle down. I want to try them again but so they can really try and figure out who is boss.
I just don't want any upset or injury. It's so hard

 

[PAMELAKT]

Yes it is hard, I just got a new boy & I'm watching like a hawk.
You could try them in a pen so they can wander & try & work out who is boss but I don't know what the chances of success would be...

Why can't they all just get along! Little monkeys!

 

[n3ss]

Yes it is hard, I just got a new boy & I'm watching like a hawk.
You could try them in a pen so they can wander & try & work out who is boss but I don't know what the chances of success would be...

Why can't they all just get along! Little monkeys!

I agree!
I just brought Fudge inside (she's been playing in her cage in the sunshine! popcorning and bouncing about) and she's all shaky and keeps wheeking at me in her "mummy wheek" which she only does for me! My Mum and I decided that it seems cruel to keep putting them through this drama of bonding, when really Fudge is getting upset and baby Honey is just nervous of the whole thing. We're going to keep Honey though she's been through too much to move house again now, but she'll live in my bedroom in one corner and Fudge can remain in her conservatory. They will go in a split run in the garden in the summertime and can see each other during 'lap time' but never actually be face to face.
I think this is safest and nicer for both piglets x

 

[Wiebke]

Hi! Sorry for your problems; finding a new mate of a piggy's liking can be quite tricky!

Do you know that there are good rescues that offer piggy dating (bonding) with a character compatible rescue piggy under expert supervision at the rescue? That way, both girls can find a new friend of their own liking and don't have to be alone, but you are not running the risk of ending up with a pair that won't go together. Neither should be kept alone - especially not little Honey!

The RSPCA Walsall and RNGP Welfare in Rugby also have neutered boars and offer to date them. I think that that is probably the best way forward with Fudge; she'll probably accept a boar much more easily than another sow. Honeybunnies in Leicester also often have neutered boars.
Here is our map of recommendable (vetted) guinea pig rescues with links to the rescue websites: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=209994852075231951564.0004b8fd9391b4257d8eb&msa=0

 

[PAMELAKT]

Sounds like a great plan Honey sounds adorable xx

 

[n3ss]

Hi! Sorry for your problems; finding a new mate of a piggy's liking can be quite tricky!

Do you know that there are good rescues that offer piggy dating (bonding) with a character compatible rescue piggy under expert supervision at the rescue? That way, both girls can find a new friend of their own liking and don't have to be alone, but you are not running the risk of ending up with a pair that won't go together. Neither should be kept alone - especially not little Honey!

The RSPCA Walsall and RNGP Welfare in Rugby also have neutered boars and offer to date them. I think that that is probably the best way forward with Fudge; she'll probably accept a boar much more easily than another sow. Honeybunnies in Leicester also often have neutered boars.
Here is our map of recommendable (vetted) guinea pig rescues with links to the rescue websites: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=209994852075231951564.0004b8fd9391b4257d8eb&msa=0

The piggy bonding sounds brilliant, my only problem is I am unable to get there because I don't drive and it's a bit of my way in birmingham as is rugby

 

[hazeyg]

The piggy bonding sounds brilliant, my only problem is I am unable to get there because I don't drive and it's a bit of my way in birmingham as is rugby

I drove from. Edinburgh in Scotland to rugby to get my boy Theo some wifepigs. Some may say I'm mad, but these animals are herd animals and in the wild would never choose to be alone. A divide is usually a good idea when two pigs done get on. Then they cans till swear across the bars lol. My alvin and theo used to lie beside each other at the divide but face to face would lounge and draw blood. Piggie dating is wonderful to see, why not make a wee trip of it. Thats what I did and i took a friend for company.
X

 

[MishImpossible]

I drove from. Edinburgh in Scotland to rugby to get my boy Theo some wifepigs. Some may say I'm mad, but these animals are herd animals and in the wild would never choose to be alone. A divide is usually a good idea when two pigs done get on. Then they cans till swear across the bars lol. My alvin and theo used to lie beside each other at the divide but face to face would lounge and draw blood. Piggie dating is wonderful to see, why not make a wee trip of it. Thats what I did and i took a friend for company.
X

I don't think that's mad at all Especially since rescues are few and far between here. I know when the time comes and plan to extend my piggie family I might have to drive down to Englandshire to find some guineas in need of a home. Sorry, it's off topic but had to say something

 

[n3ss]

Hi! Sorry for your problems; finding a new mate of a piggy's liking can be quite tricky!

Do you know that there are good rescues that offer piggy dating (bonding) with a character compatible rescue piggy under expert supervision at the rescue? That way, both girls can find a new friend of their own liking and don't have to be alone, but you are not running the risk of ending up with a pair that won't go together. Neither should be kept alone - especially not little Honey!

The RSPCA Walsall and RNGP Welfare in Rugby also have neutered boars and offer to date them. I think that that is probably the best way forward with Fudge; she'll probably accept a boar much more easily than another sow. Honeybunnies in Leicester also often have neutered boars.
Here is our map of recommendable (vetted) guinea pig rescues with links to the rescue websites: https://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=209994852075231951564.0004b8fd9391b4257d8eb&msa=0

hey everyone
thank you all for all your advice and suggestions regarding my little babies. Fudge is still currently in her conservatory, manning her domain and bum wiggling everywhere! Such a cheeky xoxo
Little Honey is upstairs in our spare room in her cage and she's loving every second and is being completely spoilt. It's really nice to see her coming up to us as in her first few days she'd run away and hide in her hay.
We've decided to get a much larger cage for Fudge and take her boar dating (I hope that's right!?) to get her a boyfriend/companion. Does everyone think this is a good idea? Any tips?

And as for little Honey we're going to keep her on her own for a few weeks so she's settled and secure in her environment and then hopefully do the same with her, or find her a little lady friend through dating.

We really want the best for these two
We're even talking about Spring 2013 and hand building a summer run for them, completely blocked off so there is just one little bit at the end where they can see and smell each other. I'm ever so excited about the future with them both now

 

[hazeyg]

I think you sound like a truly wonderful owner and the boar dating for a piggie husband sounds just the right thing for her. And I think your doing the right thing by your baby too. Its so nice to see really caring owners x

 

[meganhannaford]

hey everyone
thank you all for all your advice and suggestions regarding my little babies. Fudge is still currently in her conservatory, manning her domain and bum wiggling everywhere! Such a cheeky xoxo
Little Honey is upstairs in our spare room in her cage and she's loving every second and is being completely spoilt. It's really nice to see her coming up to us as in her first few days she'd run away and hide in her hay.
We've decided to get a much larger cage for Fudge and take her boar dating (I hope that's right!?) to get her a boyfriend/companion. Does everyone think this is a good idea? Any tips?

And as for little Honey we're going to keep her on her own for a few weeks so she's settled and secure in her environment and then hopefully do the same with her, or find her a little lady friend through dating.

We really want the best for these two
We're even talking about Spring 2013 and hand building a summer run for them, completely blocked off so there is just one little bit at the end where they can see and smell each other. I'm ever so excited about the future with them both now

aww so ** going to get a desexed male for ** bossy girl heheh maybe she wont boss a man around