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Stripe and Chesney

I've got two 3.5 week old sisters (and mum) one went running at full speed, popcorned then full speed back. When she popcorned she booted her poor sister who toppled over and hit the cage grid ( she's okay! ) she jumped up and looked so puzzled momentarily, I don't think she knew what hit her. I could watch piggies all day long🥰
 
Piggies&buns said:
Hay is expensive!
I'm lucky to able buy in bulk bales from a local farm as have the storage space for a bale. It works out considerably less and each bale lasts six weeks for five animals (four enclosures) with cages fully filled. (You’re paying around £11 per week whereas my bale is £7 per six weeks).

They will be fine in the carrier. They’ve been together long enough now and they seek comfort from each other. When I had bonded pairs, they were never ever separated
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I called around some farms to see and someone had a 50 pound bale for $7 but that's just way too big! I can't keep it in my garage because of mice and oil from the car.

What is the trick of touching the ears when you want to tell your guinea pig no? Chez has taken to nibbling every time my hand comes near. Not sure if he just wants food or what. But if I'm going to start handling the boys I have to make sure Chez isn't biting.
 
Ramia said:
I called around some farms to see and someone had a 50 pound bale for $7 but that's just way too big! I can't keep it in my garage because of mice and oil from the car.

Yesterday at 7:36 AM
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#34
TAMING AND TRAINING PIGGIES

Guinea Pigs are prey animals, so they're naturally frightened of everything. They also have good memories!
Soft gentle approach, they do not respond to punishment at all. Never punish a pig unless you want it to dislike you. Food gets them everytime, I lure mine into a carry cage and from there pick them up. They prefer to be held on a bed or something so they feel secure, and your less likely to hurt them accidentally.
One of my very very friendly and tame pigs got a wound under his chin, I think from another pig (the suspect is no longer with us) I had to clean it twice daily and apply a cream. After 2 days he began running away and teeth chattering at me as he HATED having his wound cleaned and tended too. He would even attempt to kick my hands away. It's been 4 months since his wound healed and he still doesn't trust me completely and hates being picked up.

But the lure into the smaller cage and or onto a bed rather than picking them up works wonders for their confidence!
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Basically, punishment does not work on rabbits or guinea pigs and should never be used on an animal unless they have been trained correctly first. It's very unfair to punish anyone or thing for doing the wrong thing if they haven't even been shown the right thing
 
I guess Chez is both nibbling for a snack and doing some tweaking. I will lift his chin like the guide says. He was letting me pet his head but lately every time I try he nibbles me. Maybe he decided he doesn't like it even though he used to popcorn when I did it.
 
doosnska said:
Basically, punishment does not work on rabbits or guinea pigs and should never be used on an animal unless they have been trained correctly first. It's very unfair to punish anyone or thing for doing the wrong thing if they haven't even been shown the right thing
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Yes, I agree that they don't understand punishment. But the guide says you can gently lift their chin to let them know not to do something.
 
Ramia said:
Yes, I agree that they don't understand punishment. But the guide says you can gently lift their chin to let them know not to do something.
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Do whatever works for you and your pigs, we're all different. I'm not saying not to, just passing on my education.

I believe in strong bonds with your pets, it's not hard to do and you will enjoy your pet more for its entire life, and in return, they will also enjoy your company and unless a unavoidable health concern arrises, I believe it will also extend an animals life span, you're their will to live if the bonds there, and it's never to late to begin trying!

I'm just saying in my studies, which are up to date. I do a refresher course every year. Punishment does not work on guinea pigs and rabbits. Positive reinforcement does. Their brains physically do not understand it and they're likely to be confused, become depressed and more stressed/ anxious.
If they're doing something you don't want them to do, show them what to do instead.
Example: cage biting, I got fruit tree branches and weaved them through the lower grids. They chew the branches instead, good for their teeth also. If they continue for attention. Turn your back and ignore, as soon as they stop reward with a treat. Ideally clicker training first would be super useful here. I'm halfway through clicker training one of my pigs, maybe I'll do a thread on it once completed!

Example of positive reinforcement vs Punishment (I'm using a dog as an example sorry!)
PUNISHMENT: If a dog jumps on you, and you punish each time, they will learn. But depending on the dog and the punishment you're using (and their reason for jumping) you will need to punish successfully eveytime (can't be tired and lazy one day and let them get away with it or you're back to square one and have a super confused dog) they will need a minimum of 30 repetitions or more before they even BEGIN to understand, then more reps until they finally do. Usually 10, sometimes more. This will weaken the bond between you and your pet and you will need to do other extra fun activities to try and restore / maintain it (more work)
Summary: it takes longer and is more stressful for all involved.

POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT: If your dog jumps on you and you ignore it until it has all 4 paws on the ground then quickly reward, you'll only have to do this 10 times in a row each time the dog jumps. Once the dog learns to keep his feet on the ground.. you can introduce the sit.
If you introduce the sit first here.. some dogs will get it.. some dogs will not. You will accidentally teach them that sit is a 2 step command. Part one: jump on human. Part 2: sit. Part 3: human should give me reward. This is much harder to fix than the jumping itself as you've accidentally taught them a command.. that they liked doing anyway!
Summary: positive reinforcement is faster and strengthens your bond AT THE SAME TIME, what a bonus. Less work!

I'm not telling anyone what to do, just laying out some stat's and facts and free information that my clients pay for 😅

I met a chihuahua once, when you said sit, he leaped at your thigh, nipped it, then bounced into a sit. It was very hard to keep a straight face in that consultation 😂

Happy training
 
doosnska said:
If you have taught your guinea pig that lifting the chin means no.. then it should work but I honestly.. I don't know how you would even do that with a piggie but I am curious and going to do some brainstorming, discuss with my vet and trainer friends see what we come up with, I'll let you know what we find
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T
Ramia said:
I guess Chez is both nibbling for a snack and doing some tweaking. I will lift his chin like the guide says. He was letting me pet his head but lately every time I try he nibbles me. Maybe he decided he doesn't like it even though he used to popcorn when I did it.
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Start with offering a snack, while his eating,
Try going under the chin or lower cheeks, a lot of animals find it intimidating when you come from above. Once his comfortable again, I'm sure you'll be back to head scratches. I always start under or the cheeks, then work my way to the head. Except for one of my pigs who his head to the side and closes his eyes like a dog when you tickle behind his ears the back of his neck 🥰
 
Piggies&buns said:
@Ramia
This is the guide which will help you - Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering and Cuddling Tips
It’s just speaking to them in their language. Nothing to do with any punishment
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That guide is good, however those theories were debunked years ago yet they still circle. Like the old wives tail that a daddy long legs spider in super poisonous but their teeth are too small to bite humans so we don't have to worry.

I'm not a pig, so I do not want to be " top pig" they don't look at us as pigs. I want to be their leader, a leader who guides them in the right directions of life, keeps them safe, clean and supplies the food.

How do you think piggies would react to us if we all started rumble strutting 😂

Anyway, that's just my education and experience and one thing I've disagreed with so far on here, can't please everyone and by all means.. if it's working for you, don't stop.

I'm just a loving gal who prefers positive reinforcement and strong bonds with 15 years experience training cats, dogs, horses, rabbits, guinea pigs, rats, mice, even a few lizards and one snake.

I'm not against punishment when necessary, but before you do: have you taught the animal what it's supposed to do instead? If not, then punishment is cruel.
Have you positively reinforced good behaviours before punishing bad ones? If you start rewarding the good stuff.. they're going to do that more and less likely to be naughty.
Are they getting enough exercise, attention and mental stimulation? If not, this is likely the reason and again, punishment would be cruel.
 
I know dogs respond to dog whispering with some things an alpha would do, such as taking your finger and poking their neck. My friend is a dog groomer and she taught me that. So I wouldn't be surprised if guinea pigs responded to some cues in the guinea pig whispering guide.
 
Ramia said:
I know dogs respond to dog whispering with some things an alpha would do, such as taking your finger and poking their neck. My friend is a dog groomer and she taught me that. So I wouldn't be surprised if guinea pigs responded to some cues in the guinea pig whispering guide.
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I know for a fact that's been disproven, I've been training dogs for 15 years. Not trying to be rude, but science has proved that incorrect. A lot of that comes from studies done on wolves, wolves that were put into captivity and studied. They did not display normal behaviour. Wolves are pack animals, dogs live in social groups, so they behave differently anyway and have now been studied separately. Dogs may come and go from their groups as they please, there is never one "Alpha". One dog might be the alpha when it comes to food, where as another dog in the group might be the alpha over a sleeping space etc.
Wolves live in packs of mum, dad, offspring and sometimes an aunt or uncle or offspring from previous years may stick around while searching for their own pack. Their family.

If you want, google all this and google the definition of "pack" and read noun 2.
attached is an image of one of the best books I've ever read (and I read A LOT) it's a super easy read.

What your groomer showed you will work on some dogs, but one day they'll get bitten if not already. If it works, it's because they're too scared to be naughty. Do you really want that relationship with your or any dog? I don't but that's just me. I've also been grooming dogs on and off for 15 years. I've never used a muzzle, I've never had to poke in neck etc and ive never been bitten. I've even managed to groom dogs that were so aggressive no groomers would take them and they had to be anthitised. The key is a positive good bond, build trust, and patience. I don't groom an aggressive dog in an hour and half like some of my chilled dogs. It takes as long as it takes. We go at the dogs pace.
One of my dogs takes me an hour now, She used to take me 3.5 hours. 6 sessions, 6 weeks apart is all it took to achieve these results with my proven science based methods. She loves coming to be groomed.

Cesar Millan has been bitten many times, and badly and is definitely not someone I would take advice from or aspire to be like. But that's just me!
 

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doosnska said:
I know for a fact that's been disproven, I've been training dogs for 15 years. Not trying to be rude, but science has proved that incorrect. A lot of that comes from studies done on wolves, wolves that were put into captivity and studied. They did not display normal behaviour. Wolves are pack animals, dogs live in social groups, so they behave differently anyway and have now been studied separately. Dogs may come and go from their groups as they please, there is never one "Alpha". One dog might be the alpha when it comes to food, where as another dog in the group might be the alpha over a sleeping space etc.
Wolves live in packs of mum, dad, offspring and sometimes an aunt or uncle or offspring from previous years may stick around while searching for their own pack. Their family.

If you want, google all this and google the definition of "pack" and read noun 2.
attached is an image of one of the best books I've ever read (and I read A LOT) it's a super easy read.

What your groomer showed you will work on some dogs, but one day they'll get bitten if not already. If it works, it's because they're too scared to be naughty. Do you really want that relationship with your or any dog? I don't but that's just me. I've also been grooming dogs on and off for 15 years. I've never used a muzzle, I've never had to poke in neck etc and ive never been bitten. I've even managed to groom dogs that were so aggressive no groomers would take them and they had to be anthitised. The key is a positive good bond, build trust, and patience. I don't groom an aggressive dog in an hour and half like some of my chilled dogs. It takes as long as it takes. We go at the dogs pace.
One of my dogs takes me an hour now, She used to take me 3.5 hours. 6 sessions, 6 weeks apart is all it took to achieve these results with my proven science based methods. She loves coming to be groomed.

Cesar Millan has been bitten many times, and badly and is definitely not someone I would take advice from or aspire to be like. But that's just me!
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And sorry, rodents and canines are very different and do not think alike, but good thought. Some things can be transferred. But hunter and prey.. not the same lol

We don't have to agree, just go and do some actual research. And then decide. Or do a certificate in animal behaviour, training and nutrition. If you're interested in pets, it's great and very interesting!
 
Ramia said:
The boys had their spot clean, Chesney is no longer scared of it in fact he crawled on the dust pan.

He is currently munching his herbs while Stripe lays down in the middle of the hay pile munching away with an arrogant look on his face.

Next Wednesday is their vet check up, I'm nervous about transporting them. I have two large storage containers and two snuggle sacks. I cut holes in the lids. Hopefully I can get them both in the back of the car. I'll test it out.

Any tips on getting Stripe out for cage cleaning? I try cornering him with the snuggle sack but he just doesn't want to go in and runs away.
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I lure mine into their carry cases then handle from their. They run straight to it, super easy and helps with the trust
 
Ramia said:
So is it ok to put them in a storage container then for cage cleaning as well? I've been putting them in separate containers. It would be so much easier. I'm going to change their fleece tomorrow.

Chesney is my sweet boy. He's the popcorn boy and chutter. Stripe is more serious although he will occasionally do those things, too. Seems like his main concern is holding up the law and laying down to munch.

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Absolutely put them in the transport cage for cleaning, then they won't associate it with vet visits
 
Not a lot of action this morning, just Chesney chutting and the boys eating their hay. Chesney finally started eating the pellets, it's the first time I'd seen him do it. Only four more days till their vet visit!

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doosnska said:
That guide is good, however those theories were debunked years ago yet they still circle. Like the old wives tail that a daddy long legs spider in super poisonous but their teeth are too small to bite humans so we don't have to worry.

I'm not a pig, so I do not want to be " top pig" they don't look at us as pigs. I want to be their leader, a leader who guides them in the right directions of life, keeps them safe, clean and supplies the food.

How do you think piggies would react to us if we all started rumble strutting 😂

Anyway, that's just my education and experience and one thing I've disagreed with so far on here, can't please everyone and by all means.. if it's working for you, don't stop.

I'm just a loving gal who prefers positive reinforcement and strong bonds with 15 years experience training cats, dogs, horses, rabbits, guinea pigs, rats, mice, even a few lizards and one snake.

I'm not against punishment when necessary, but before you do: have you taught the animal what it's supposed to do instead? If not, then punishment is cruel.
Have you positively reinforced good behaviours before punishing bad ones? If you start rewarding the good stuff.. they're going to do that more and less likely to be naughty.
Are they getting enough exercise, attention and mental stimulation? If not, this is likely the reason and again, punishment would be cruel.
Click to expand...

The guides on our forum were written by one of our most experienced and trusted staff members based on many years of experience. She also publishes in Guinea Pig Magazine. Whilst you may choose to disagree with the content, it’s rather a bold and disrespectful statement to say “the theories were debunked years ago” . As a new member you may be finding your way with our forum and we do operate differently from the keyboard warrior style of social media platforms. Please could you be more respectful of the forum resources. If they aren’t for you, then please by all means pass them by, but don’t make disparaging comments about them to other members who’ve found them incredibly helpful over many years.
 
Chez and Stripe are in this pic eating endive. I topped off their hay and Chez jumped in the pile and is now popcorning and chutting. Even serious Stripe is doing some popcorning.

Three more days till their vet visit. I'm hoping to get some hands on help learning to handle them.

Now Chez is zooming and zooming. He better watch out for Stripe because he's gonna get mad!

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Mischievous Master Boris used to be quite nippy. He didn't ever hurt us, it was more of a tweak. I used the guides, hubby didn't. I now never get his teeth on me but hubby still does.
So my personal experience is that the guides work.
 
Cait_lin said:
Aww your boys are so sweet 🥰 I hope they get on well at the vet!
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Yes I'm so nervous to have them in the carrier together because when I put them in there for cage cleaning I hear rumbling! But everyone has told me they should be together in the carrier, so I will. Just don't want to see a fight while I'm driving.
 
Ramia said:
Yes I'm so nervous to have them in the carrier together because when I put them in there for cage cleaning I hear rumbling! But everyone has told me they should be together in the carrier, so I will. Just don't want to see a fight while I'm driving.
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Ah I know what you mean. That was my fear when I brought my two boys to the vet because they rumble a lot, but they got along completely fine going to and from the vet and there were no problems. If they just rumble at each other and don't fight while you're cage cleaning, they shouldn't fight on the way to the vet either 🥰 Especially if you put some hay in the carrier, that should distract them and keep them happy during the car ride (although mine were very quiet and unsure on the way there and just huddled up and didn't eat any hay for a while until they had calmed down)
 
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