Sudden aggresive behaviour from entire group

[Fourrlittlepiggies]

I have three guinea pigs that I’ve had for awhile, koko and sparrow I’ve had for 8 months and panda I’ve had for 2, all of whom I house in the same cage and have for months without issue but tonight suddenly there’s been fur ripping, fights, squealing, chasing and even 3 instances of bloodshed.





The usual nighttime setup involves koko and panda sharing the large portion of the cage and sparrow having the smaller portion closed off just for her because she gets extremely grouchy and sour and causes a big uproar all night if her siblings don’t leave her alone and they get playtime together during the day when they have some supervision.


Koko and panda have been housed together for 2 months without problem and they’ve all been in the new cage for almost a month together without issue. Beforehand sparrow was housed alone due to me having smaller cages that couldn’t fit all 3 pigs. And because she obviously isn’t too fond of her siblings.





Nothing changed tonight but suddenly panda got very aggressive and has been the instigator in everything going on when she’s usually very submissive and avoids the older pigs little dominance squabbles as much as possible.


But now she’s been ripping kokos fur out, caused bloodshed 3 times (minor. Both other pigs are fine luckily) and is still currently being very aggressive to both koko and sparrow even though all three have been separated for the night. I tried to separate her and koko and let her and sparrow sleep together but that was an immediate fur ripping fight.


Koko is the dominant pig usually so she’s just not having it and is retaliating, although not as aggressively and is mainly doing usual dominance stuff until panda takes a chunk of fur out, then it’s a free for all. Sparrow is so much more touchy than usual and if panda tries to be aggressive or koko does her usual dominance stuff she responds aggressively. So panda and sparrow can’t even be beside each other right now as they’re trying to fight through the bars. And panda has made a complete personality switch from her sweet and quiet self to even biting me if I try and touch her. I needed to use a towel to move her to a separate part of the cage.





I’m hoping someone can shed some light on what might have upset the whole group this much and this quickly? They were all playing fine together this afternoon and have been sleeping for most of the night up until now. There’s never been this much aggression even when sparrow and koko shared a cage when I first got them and I’m hoping it’s something easy to solve as I would hate to have to separate them all at night as panda and koko usually snuggle every night and are usually very fond of each other.
Thanks in advance

 

[DMS260820]

@Wiebke @PigglePuggle . Two members I can think of who will have a good idea of what's happening

 

[Piggies&buns]

Unfortunately now there’s has been this kind of fight, bloodshed, it is unlikely that they will be able to live together again and a permanent separation is going to have to happen. Once they decide they can’t get on, there isn’t a lot you can do to change their minds. It is such a shame when it happens, but you can’t risk fights.
I don’t have sows, so I don’t have personal experience of their dynamics, so hopefully somebody with experience of them will be able to give you some idea of why, but for now, it would be best to keep the ones that can’t get along apart from each other.

 

[PigglePuggle]

This doesnt sound good and to be honest my piggy relationships have all been mostly like marmite- either they get on, or its clear from the outset that they wont!
Just to be clear, can you confirm that these are all girls, and what size cage they have?
If you are routinely shutting one away from the others at night this rings alarm bells- firstly that you would need to, and secondly that piggies should not be seperated then reintroduced like this. If they are a herd they need to be a herd 24/7 and if they are not well bonded and need seperating then you need to do a formal reintroduction on neutral ground then watch and wait for a few hours and if it looks good they need leaving together all the time after that to work out their herd hierarchy.
If you have a trio of girls, and are shutting one away at night, this suggests that either the piggies have decided or you yourself thinking it is in their best interests have created an "outsider" situation where you have a pair, and an odd one out.
I think at this point you need to think about permanently seperating and getting a new cage and a new friend for the one who is left out, or if you really want to try and rebond then waiting a few weeks until the dust has settled and expanding and completely changing your cage set up to try house them together again after a formal reintroduction on neutral territory- and if you do that you would need to stick with it and watch very closely, but if you needed to seperate again then really that would be settled!
Piggies are much more opinionated and aggressive little than one might imagine from their cuddly sausage appearance, and you can't force mutual liking and bonding anymore that you can by forcing randomly selected people to share a house together! Best of luck, hopefully @Wiebke will be along later to give you the expert view

 

[Wiebke]

I have three guinea pigs that I’ve had for awhile, koko and sparrow I’ve had for 8 months and panda I’ve had for 2, all of whom I house in the same cage and have for months without issue but tonight suddenly there’s been fur ripping, fights, squealing, chasing and even 3 instances of bloodshed.





The usual nighttime setup involves koko and panda sharing the large portion of the cage and sparrow having the smaller portion closed off just for her because she gets extremely grouchy and sour and causes a big uproar all night if her siblings don’t leave her alone and they get playtime together during the day when they have some supervision.


Koko and panda have been housed together for 2 months without problem and they’ve all been in the new cage for almost a month together without issue. Beforehand sparrow was housed alone due to me having smaller cages that couldn’t fit all 3 pigs. And because she obviously isn’t too fond of her siblings.





Nothing changed tonight but suddenly panda got very aggressive and has been the instigator in everything going on when she’s usually very submissive and avoids the older pigs little dominance squabbles as much as possible.


But now she’s been ripping kokos fur out, caused bloodshed 3 times (minor. Both other pigs are fine luckily) and is still currently being very aggressive to both koko and sparrow even though all three have been separated for the night. I tried to separate her and koko and let her and sparrow sleep together but that was an immediate fur ripping fight.


Koko is the dominant pig usually so she’s just not having it and is retaliating, although not as aggressively and is mainly doing usual dominance stuff until panda takes a chunk of fur out, then it’s a free for all. Sparrow is so much more touchy than usual and if panda tries to be aggressive or koko does her usual dominance stuff she responds aggressively. So panda and sparrow can’t even be beside each other right now as they’re trying to fight through the bars. And panda has made a complete personality switch from her sweet and quiet self to even biting me if I try and touch her. I needed to use a towel to move her to a separate part of the cage.





I’m hoping someone can shed some light on what might have upset the whole group this much and this quickly? They were all playing fine together this afternoon and have been sleeping for most of the night up until now. There’s never been this much aggression even when sparrow and koko shared a cage when I first got them and I’m hoping it’s something easy to solve as I would hate to have to separate them all at night as panda and koko usually snuggle every night and are usually very fond of each other.
Thanks in advance

Hi!

Please have your aggressive sow checked for ovarian cysts, which are very often at the bottom of a sudden acrimonious fall-out.

However, it sounds like they have fallen out with each other. it is sadly a myth that sows won't and definitely a myth that sisters will always stick together - I have several 'divorced' sister pairs myself! Unfortunately, once sows make up their mind that another one is no longer part of 'us', then you've basically had it. They are not going to change their mind for the next few years.

Give the girls two days out-time and then see who is still getting on with who - Panda and Sparrow may not be going back together if there have been full-on bites and there is too much grudge between them. Don't bother with re-intros if there is still plenty of teeth chattering through the bars; it is never going to work out. Also have oven gloves and a quick divider at the ready if you want to try and see whether at least two of your girls will accept each other once tempers have settled down.

If you are unlucky, none will go back with each other. It has happened with sows of mine and was a real headache at the time...
Unfortunately, while the odd temporary separation can help to work out whether a bond is still functioning or not daily separations are very destabilising for a bond as they always trigger an initial dominance display which can blow up into a fight if the group dynamic has shifted towards perceiving the off-on companion as no longer being group member.

I wish I had better news, but from my own experiences it is more proficient to accept the facts and concentrate on finding a workable solution.

Here is more information on ovarian cysts and working out whether a bond is dysfunctional or not:
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
Bonds In Trouble