Sudden fight, resulting in torn ear - not sure what to do now...

JLB455

JLB455

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Good afternoon all, I have just witnessed a huge fight between our two girls, where one has caught the other's ear - quite significantly.

We have had them for 5 weeks, and they seem to be the best of friends most of the time. This is sudden and dramatic behavour, they were flying through the air, and all around the cage, screaming!

We have separated them, I have treated the ear tear with diluted antiseptic, and used some antiseptic powder from the pet shop - which I had luckily.

My concern is now - what to do now. We have a large run, that we litterally introduced yesterday. They could go in there, to be reintroduced. I can separate them each on a different level of the hutch overnight if necessary, but going into tomorrow, when I am back at work, that is less than ideal.

Please advise - why might this be happening?

How do I best handle it in the short term.

Many thanks
 
Very difficult to say without witnessing what happened, and even then a tough call!
You need to think about a few things I guess:
1) what triggered the fight? Was it brewing for days or was it about something specific like 1 particular hidey or food bowl or cage space that you can duplicate or take away?
2) was it a deliberate bite intended to harm or just a misjudged nip in a heated family quarrel?
3) is one girl in season and did that trigger the fight, some ladies in season are very unpredictably hormonal- our Piggle used to brawl with her cousin Puggle when she was in season or tried to fight imaginary things too! She could be horrible, she's mellowed with age a bit now she's 16 months old but from 4 months to 10 months she was just plain evil when in season.
4) if you've separated the girls, how do they seem- happy to be apart and ignoring each other? Still teeth chattering and lunging trying to fight more? Very sorry and submissive and sad to be separated?
I think the forum behaviour expert Wiebke is still away, usually blood drawn is the end of any possible piggy relationship but it does also depend on how, why, did they mean it, is it likely to happen again etc.
 
It is very strange that this suddenly happened after 5 weeks - either it happens immediately, within the first 2 weeks or so whilst they sort dominance or not at all. Perhaps one of them is in season.

Given there was a very serious fight, that usually means they will not get on again in the future (sorry to be the bearer of bad news). For now I would keep them separate until all wounds healed etc, you could try again in a few weeks but I’m afraid it’s not going to go well again in the future.

Keep an eye on the ear. Any hotness, pus or redness means an infection so trip to the vet required for antibiotics. Do NOT pick the scabs. When mine had a small nip out of her ear it took a good 2-3 weeks for the scab to heal and fall off naturally.

I’ve never heard of antiseptic powder, and usually don’t trust stuff sold by pet shops but any saline or diluted hibiscrub should do if needed.
 
JLB455 said:
Good afternoon all, I have just witnessed a huge fight between our two girls, where one has caught the other's ear - quite significantly.

We have had them for 5 weeks, and they seem to be the best of friends most of the time. This is sudden and dramatic behavour, they were flying through the air, and all around the cage, screaming!

We have separated them, I have treated the ear tear with diluted antiseptic, and used some antiseptic powder from the pet shop - which I had luckily.

My concern is now - what to do now. We have a large run, that we litterally introduced yesterday. They could go in there, to be reintroduced. I can separate them each on a different level of the hutch overnight if necessary, but going into tomorrow, when I am back at work, that is less than ideal.

Please advise - why might this be happening?

How do I best handle it in the short term.

Many thanks
Click to expand...

Hi and welcome!

How large is your cage and how old are your boys?
Introducing new territory can cause a new hierarchy sort-out and can lead to fights if there are underlying issues with the relationship or your boys are coming close to the teenage months. New territory is also one of the biggest reasons for fall-outs in adult boars (which are generally rather rare).

You may find these guides here helpful in working out what is going on and whether the bond is still viable:
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

Please see your asap if you notice signs of infection on the ear (hotness, redness etc)
 
Wiebke said:
Hi and welcome!

How large is your cage and how old are your boys?
Introducing new territory can cause a new hierarchy sort-out and can lead to fights if there are underlying issues with the relationship or your boys are coming close to the teenage months. New territory is also one of the biggest reasons for fall-outs in adult boars (which are generally rather rare).

You may find these guides here helpful in working out what is going on and whether the bond is still viable:
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Click to expand...
Thank you for coming back to me.

They are two Sows. They have a two storey 180cm x 70cm hutch with larger run attached, which they have free access to during the daytime !

We figured it might be hormones?

They have been in the hutch together for 5 weeks, and they came from the same litter. No problems that we are aware of until today.

We separated them for a few hours, letting the one with the injured ear (which I cleaned up & treated with appropriate antiseptic powder) recover for a while. We thoroughly cleaned their hutch, which was due to be done today, and then re-introduced them in their separate run - without any toys or food to distract them, closely supervised. They were a little be agressive towards each other for a little bit, with some pop-corning which seemed like dominating behaviour - then they settled down, to eat the grass. Once we were happy they had had plenty of time without issue, we reintroduced them to the hutch, but on separate floors - with the hatch closed. They then both cried out to each other, seeminly distressed they were not together - so reopened the hatch and they joined each other.

They had a while together before we tucked them in for the night. There are two sleeping spaces, so fingers crossed in the morning - there will have been no further incidents.

If you or anyone has any further advice, or reasons why this would be happening, or how to prevent it, I would be eternally grateful... :-(
 
Elthysia said:
It is very strange that this suddenly happened after 5 weeks - either it happens immediately, within the first 2 weeks or so whilst they sort dominance or not at all. Perhaps one of them is in season.

Given there was a very serious fight, that usually means they will not get on again in the future (sorry to be the bearer of bad news). For now I would keep them separate until all wounds healed etc, you could try again in a few weeks but I’m afraid it’s not going to go well again in the future.

Keep an eye on the ear. Any hotness, pus or redness means an infection so trip to the vet required for antibiotics. Do NOT pick the scabs. When mine had a small nip out of her ear it took a good 2-3 weeks for the scab to heal and fall off naturally.

I’ve never heard of antiseptic powder, and usually don’t trust stuff sold by pet shops but any saline or diluted hibiscrub should do if needed.
Click to expand...
Thank you, it will be so sad if they cannot be reconciled, but I hear what you are saying. Thank you for the advice about the ear too.
 
PigglePuggle said:
Very difficult to say without witnessing what happened, and even then a tough call!
You need to think about a few things I guess:
1) what triggered the fight? Was it brewing for days or was it about something specific like 1 particular hidey or food bowl or cage space that you can duplicate or take away?
2) was it a deliberate bite intended to harm or just a misjudged nip in a heated family quarrel?
3) is one girl in season and did that trigger the fight, some ladies in season are very unpredictably hormonal- our Piggle used to brawl with her cousin Puggle when she was in season or tried to fight imaginary things too! She could be horrible, she's mellowed with age a bit now she's 16 months old but from 4 months to 10 months she was just plain evil when in season.
4) if you've separated the girls, how do they seem- happy to be apart and ignoring each other? Still teeth chattering and lunging trying to fight more? Very sorry and submissive and sad to be separated?
I think the forum behaviour expert Wiebke is still away, usually blood drawn is the end of any possible piggy relationship but it does also depend on how, why, did they mean it, is it likely to happen again etc.
Click to expand...
Thank you for coming back to me.

There was no sign of it brewing until today, the injured one was very very sad and quiet when we separated them. The other was normal ! It was only when we re-introduced them to the hutch (see my reply to Wiebke for all the details of what action we took today) they cried out until they were back together.

We wondered about being in season... what did you do with Piggle when she was in season and so "evil"? I do need some practical guidance, as I am a complete novice.

Thank you
 
It’s a tricky one and one where you’ll probably have to go with your gut (aka difficult to advise over the internet). Seasons last 2-3 days every 2 weeks or so. Usually the pig in season is a complete pest rather than the one instigating the aggression - I find it is usually the innocent pig being pestered that fights because she’s had enough of the season pig.

I only use separation in very rare circumstances as it can permanently mess up the bond. Perhaps if it’s possible to separate by a divider where they can still hear and talk to eachother is the best way if the pig has very strong seasons, but not completely separated where they can’t see eachother.

When sows have very strong seasons there is usually an underlying health issue related to hormones, eg ovarian cysts or adrenal gland issues. May be worth investigating. There are some good articles on the forum about that but I can’t get to the links at the moment.

However, if it is a case of them actually not liking eachother (anymore) then you’re in a no win situation as you can move heaven and earth but once they’ve made up their mind they won’t go back to liking eachother (although they may tolerate eachother by lack of other pigs in the herd)
 
When we first saw how Piggle behaved when in season and it happened regularly we decided to get a neutered husboar to divert a bit of the hormonal tension, actually we ended up adopting a pair of extra ladies too, and expanding the cage a lot- this diluted the amount of mad Piggle any other piggy was exposed to!
That may not be an option for everyone though and might not work, if your girls really are still very good friends an extra piggy might stress their bond, and if they arent and really dont like each other another piggy wont help solve that...
 
Thank you for all your responses, it is so helpful to have advice from those with experience. Surprising they settled back in with each other last night, and when I went out check on them before I headed to bed, they had chosen to sleep in together !

After a very bad nights sleep (me not them!) my worrying seems to have been unnecessary, as they seem fine this morning - thank goodness. Hopefully it will last! Thanks again.
 
JLB455 said:
Thank you for coming back to me.

They are two Sows. They have a two storey 180cm x 70cm hutch with larger run attached, which they have free access to during the daytime !

We figured it might be hormones?

They have been in the hutch together for 5 weeks, and they came from the same litter. No problems that we are aware of until today.

We separated them for a few hours, letting the one with the injured ear (which I cleaned up & treated with appropriate antiseptic powder) recover for a while. We thoroughly cleaned their hutch, which was due to be done today, and then re-introduced them in their separate run - without any toys or food to distract them, closely supervised. They were a little be agressive towards each other for a little bit, with some pop-corning which seemed like dominating behaviour - then they settled down, to eat the grass. Once we were happy they had had plenty of time without issue, we reintroduced them to the hutch, but on separate floors - with the hatch closed. They then both cried out to each other, seeminly distressed they were not together - so reopened the hatch and they joined each other.

They had a while together before we tucked them in for the night. There are two sleeping spaces, so fingers crossed in the morning - there will have been no further incidents.

If you or anyone has any further advice, or reasons why this would be happening, or how to prevent it, I would be eternally grateful... :-(
Click to expand...

Follow the tips on making sure that there are no hideys woth just one exit or corners that the undersow can be trapped in.

In sows, a tear to the ear comes most likely from a misjudged back foot swipe and is perceived as an accident and not a fight. A swipe is a milder 'stay off me' gesture and pretty normal. I see it lots in my sow groups. Occasionally it can cause a little scratch or catch the other piggy's ear.
 
Wiebke said:
Follow the tips on making sure that there are no hideys woth just one exit or corners that the undersow can be trapped in.

In sows, a tear to the ear comes most likely from a misjudged back foot swipe and is perceived as an accident and not a fight. A swipe is a milder 'stay off me' gesture and pretty normal. I see it lots in my sow groups. Occasionally it can cause a little scratch or catch the other piggy's ear.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the pointers on hidey's - that's all fine. It may well be a swipe from a foot. Thankfully they seemed so much better after a "time-out", they were unhappy not to be in together, which I guess is a good sign. The sight of blood was horrifying though.

Hopefully this will be the only incident! Thanks again for your help.
 
Update .... pleased to report that all seems to be harmonious in the hutch again this week! The dominance seems to have shifted though, which is very interesting to observe - especially around the food bowl, but both seem to be getting their fair share, and they seem to be friends again. It's certainly a quick learning curve having these two around! Thanks again for all the great advice.
 
JLB455 said:
Update .... pleased to report that all seems to be harmonious in the hutch again this week! The dominance seems to have shifted though, which is very interesting to observe - especially around the food bowl, but both seem to be getting their fair share, and they seem to be friends again. It's certainly a quick learning curve having these two around! Thanks again for all the great advice.
Click to expand...
I would make sure there are 2 food bowls from now on, just to be sure everyone is getting their fair share of food, and one piggy can't use this resource to bully the other.
 
JLB455 said:
Update .... pleased to report that all seems to be harmonious in the hutch again this week! The dominance seems to have shifted though, which is very interesting to observe - especially around the food bowl, but both seem to be getting their fair share, and they seem to be friends again. It's certainly a quick learning curve having these two around! Thanks again for all the great advice.
Click to expand...

I would recommend to feed in two separate bowls and only as much as can be eaten in one go before you remove the bowls.
Adult piggies should not eat more than 50g veg and 1 tablespoon of pellets in a day. Sprinkle feeding around can also help with dominance issues. Removing the bowls between meals will encourage eating hay, which should make over 80% of the daily food intake and which can make a real difference in life span and overall health. ;)
 
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