Sudden Rise In Aggression - Do I Split?

Fweeper

Fweeper

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Bare facts: pair of boars, been together since birth, around a year old, suddenly hit wanting to kill eachother, have had to be split after injuries. HELP!

In depth info: Suddenly, out of nowhere, the boys are just at eachother with a deathwish for the other one and I've had to split them up for their own safety. They both have wounds (although these appear more accidental than deliberate), they refuse to let the other one be, so the only way I can get them any rest and calm is to separate them. I let them try and share the big cage for 3 hours to make sure, but all they did was go for the other one, constantly.

Currently the top pig is in the big cage and the underpig is in the smaller cage. They seemed to calm immediately when they couldn't see or smell the other one any longer and I can't leave the cages within sniffing distance because they both just CONSTANTLY chew and yank on the bars trying to get to the other one. I am utterly lost, this came from nowhere and now I have no idea what to do. Any advice would be gratefully accepted because I suspect if I split the big cage, they're going to go back to ripping at the bars to get at the other one.

My current plan is essentially to leave them apart overnight, so they can rest and heal, and then tomorrow, strip down the big cage entirely, disinfect and change all the fleece, then put them back in it together to see how they go. Thoughts, anyone?
 
Fweeper said:
Bare facts: pair of boars, been together since birth, around a year old, suddenly hit wanting to kill eachother, have had to be split after injuries. HELP!

In depth info: Suddenly, out of nowhere, the boys are just at eachother with a deathwish for the other one and I've had to split them up for their own safety. They both have wounds (although these appear more accidental than deliberate), they refuse to let the other one be, so the only way I can get them any rest and calm is to separate them. I let them try and share the big cage for 3 hours to make sure, but all they did was go for the other one, constantly.

Currently the top pig is in the big cage and the underpig is in the smaller cage. They seemed to calm immediately when they couldn't see or smell the other one any longer and I can't leave the cages within sniffing distance because they both just CONSTANTLY chew and yank on the bars trying to get to the other one. I am utterly lost, this came from nowhere and now I have no idea what to do. Any advice would be gratefully accepted because I suspect if I split the big cage, they're going to go back to ripping at the bars to get at the other one.

My current plan is essentially to leave them apart overnight, so they can rest and heal, and then tomorrow, strip down the big cage entirely, disinfect and change all the fleece, then put them back in it together to see how they go. Thoughts, anyone?
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Please leave them separated overnight to cool down, or even a day longer. Disinfect any wounds with saline solution (either from a pharmacy or made at a home by mixing one teaspoon of salt into 250 ml ot half a pint of boiled cooled water. If necessary have them checked by a vet.

Please always conduct re-introductions in neutral space and not in a cage. In a pinch, a bathtub or a shower floor with a beach towel for grip will do. Have oven gloves and a carrier ready in case there is another fight. NEVER go between fighting or riled up piggies with bare hands!

If they start fighting again, then you may have to face the fact that they may not get on anymore. Sadly fights can blow up very quickly if the wrong signals are exchanged. :(

Much more information in these very detailed guide in here, which you will find very helpful:
Boars: Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Introducing And Re-introducing Guinea Pigs
Illustrated Bonding / Dominance Behaviours And Dynamics
 
Thank you for that, just hearing I was doing the right thing is lovely after coming home to find them at eachother like that! They've both conked out asleep now, presumably because they're just so exhausted from the bickering, and the wounds are very superficial so there's no need for the vet, I don't think. I'll of course check them again in the morning to make sure, though.

If the rebonding goes alright, do you think they'd be ok to both go back in the massive cage once it's disinfected?
 
Fweeper said:
Thank you for that, just hearing I was doing the right thing is lovely after coming home to find them at eachother like that! They've both conked out asleep now, presumably because they're just so exhausted from the bickering, and the wounds are very superficial so there's no need for the vet, I don't think. I'll of course check them again in the morning to make sure, though.

If the rebonding goes alright, do you think they'd be ok to both go back in the massive cage once it's disinfected?
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Yes, they should be OK. The guides I have linked to in my last post contain all the detailed and practical tips for bonding and when to move and what to avoid etc.
Make sure that you have everything double and no hideys with just one exit.
 
I know it's ridiculous, but listening to them crying for the other one is utterly heartbreaking
 
Fweeper said:
I know it's ridiculous, but listening to them crying for the other one is utterly heartbreaking
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it is always very upsetting but if both are doing it and not just one while the other is happy to be away, then you in with a much better chance of success. If you are lucky, then they will just back with each other. ;)
 
That's true, and basically what I'm clinging to right now! Thank you so much for the help, this place is invaluable to me!
 
Fweeper said:
That's true, and basically what I'm clinging to right now! Thank you so much for the help, this place is invaluable to me!
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Just as long as you stay realistic and look at what your plan B would be, please. ;)
 
Plan B is firmly to split their massive cage and hope they get over chewing the bars, because it's pretty clear they want to be together and this did come out of the blue after a year of basically friendly interaction, so I'm going to try for that.
 
Best of luck. Lots of cooling down vibes followed by smooth forever bonding vibes coming your way!
 
Thanks to you both for the kind words, I'm incredibly relieved to report that after 3 hours sat in my walk in shower (neutral space) with the boys, they reached an accord and happily ate breakfast together! I risked putting them back into the big cage together again after I'd stripped it and disinfected every inch of it, all is calm. I have no idea what suddenly spurred their little kick off, but apparently a night apart was enough to make them realise they missed eachother?! I'm going to see how they both go over the rest of the day, but barring some rumbling and the odd little grumpy huff, they've been fine all day so far!
 
Fweeper said:
Thanks to you both for the kind words, I'm incredibly relieved to report that after 3 hours sat in my walk in shower (neutral space) with the boys, they reached an accord and happily ate breakfast together! I risked putting them back into the big cage together again after I'd stripped it and disinfected every inch of it, all is calm. I have no idea what suddenly spurred their little kick off, but apparently a night apart was enough to make them realise they missed eachother?! I'm going to see how they both go over the rest of the day, but barring some rumbling and the odd little grumpy huff, they've been fine all day so far!
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I would stop worrying; it has likely been a bust-up over something silly. Giving boys time out to calm down and realise that they actually want to be with each other can do the trick if it has not been a serious full-on fight and more in the way of a scuffle.

You must be soooo relieved!
 
Thank goodness they went back together. I'm glad. Here's hoping it continues.
 
Happy to say they're asleep next to eachother like nothing ever happened! Still no idea what caused that, but their wounds were very superficial and easily cleaned, so I'll take it! Seems like they both tore a nail off, and Sundae has a cut lip, but that's it, thankfully. If anything, they appear to have become closer now than they were before so YAY!
 
Little rascals glad they've made up. If they're anything like my boys they can get into arguments about the silliest of things. Lol.

They even fight over the same thing if there's 2 of everything in their cage. :nod::doh:
 
So I just wanted to update this and say I lost the battle to keep them together. They are now in a split cage after getting into the mother of all fights while I was at work today. Praline has a mild concussion and a torn eyelid, Sundae escaped with merely a bitten flank. I've decided enough is enough, I can't keep doing the trial separation thing and letting them cause injury on eachother, so they can still see, smell and talk to eachother, but not get at eachother.
Hopefully over time they'll get over the tugging on the bars and rumbling aspect, but I don't feel I have any other choice. Tbh, I feel like I let them down a lot, and that's a horrible, horrible feeling.
 
You definitely didn't let them down. You did everything you could. They're just boys - full of testosterone and picking fights. You've done your best by them. It's a shame, but it's perfectly normal, so don't be beating yourself up.
 
Fweeper said:
So I just wanted to update this and say I lost the battle to keep them together. They are now in a split cage after getting into the mother of all fights while I was at work today. Tbh, I feel like I let them down a lot, and that's a horrible, horrible feeling.
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You have not let them down - they have decided that they don't want to live together, despite you giving them every opportunity to work things out.
It was their decision, and only a caring and responsible owner would allow them to make it and accept their choice.
Be kind to yourself.
And I do understand where you are coming from.
I had a perfect foursome - 1 boar and 3 sows who lived together for almost a year before they decided that they didn't want a huge cage and to live together - they wanted to be split into pairs, and live in smaller cages (ok, technically still 5 x 2 C&C's but still....).
I tried multiple times to get them back together, but for whatever reason they had made up their minds and my idea of a 'wonderful life' was different to theirs.
Well done for trying, but sometimes splitting them really is the best and safest option.
 
@Swissgreys thank you for that, I know it's really the only decision I can make for them, but listening to them chirping in the split cage is still heartbreaking. I just can't allow them to do damage to eachother anymore, the vet was adamant another concussion could very well be fatal. Pig owning is hard work, I think I just need to remember this is the only safe way they can be together.
 
I had to split my original pair of boys up as they never got along. You've not failed at all. They've just decided they don't want to be friends. They will be ok living along side each other. I covered one half of a C&c grid as my boys were constantly bar chewing that stopped them.
 
@Julie M Thank you for that, I'm trying to tough it out with them, they're actually easing up on the chewing so hopefully in time they'll stop it altogether, but I'll cover the bars as you did if not.
 
I ended up covering one half of the divider and I don't know why but that seemed to work. They still had nearly a full grid where they could see each other.
 
Julie M said:
I ended up covering one half of the divider and I don't know why but that seemed to work. They still had nearly a full grid where they could see each other.
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6 months after separating my lot into pairs I have finally removed the cover from half a grid, and it seems to be going well.
I love the idea of them having a full grid to interact through like your boys, but we aren't there yet.
But having said that they also have their partner to interact with, so it is less critical I suppose.
Well done with your 2 - they are surprisingly complex little things aren't they?
 
Swissgreys said:
6 months after separating my lot into pairs I have finally removed the cover from half a grid, and it seems to be going well.
I love the idea of them having a full grid to interact through like your boys, but we aren't there yet.
But having said that they also have their partner to interact with, so it is less critical I suppose.
Well done with your 2 - they are surprisingly complex little things aren't they?
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I have ended up with my 2 remaining boys together now. After living beside each other for a few months they started to get along.
 
I'm going to live in hope that my two get their act together like yours, @Julie M ! Thus far, they're still in the occasionally rumbling at eachother through the bars stage and sometimes there's a bickering session too, so I can't risk another fight, but the bar chewing has lessened and they have 120cm's of exposed bar between them so they basically still share a cage, but without being able to fight.

I must say that they have both calmed down considerably, I'm allowed to touch Sundae in the cage for the first time ever, and he actually quite likes a stroke now! I can't deny this was the best option for my boys, they can't live apart, but they definitely can't live together without a barrier either. I'm just happy that I now see them popcorning about like crazy FAR more than I ever did when they shared, which is lovely and takes the edge off the horrible feeling I'd failed them. Maybe one day they could go back in together, but that day is a long way off, if it exists for them at all!
 
As long as the boys are happy that's the main thing. My issue was that Peanut was scared of other guinea pigs as he'd been kept alone before I got him from being purchased till he was 8 months old. He used to like hiss at Buddy and that set Buddy off. Lol :doh:
 
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