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Sudoku - Difficult Post Op Saga

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lauraboara

lauraboara

Adult Guinea Pig
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Having a real battle with Sudoku and just hoping you lot can give me a bit of hope as I am feeling tired and grasping at straws.
He had an unplanned and difficult op nearly 4 weeks ago - a hidden small urethral stone (top end at exit to bladder, just about to go down but wedged....) - as we know from Mr Ted's sad story (VickiA) that is not good news. really no sign before hand other than bit of weight loss and being 'off'. i went straight for xrays and so it all kicked off.
Anyway, after the op he was very poorly but by the 10 day check up he was doing Ok but still lethargic and lots of syringe feeding required to support. But eating himself too and times of being his fiesty self.

since then though he has had a roller coaster - got cystitis which is common I know after ops but that meant he had a couple of crisis days when he was too sore to wee :(. So working with vet we upped his meds to tramadol (he was on that immediately post op too but had stopped), metacam, septrin and cisapride (gut stimulant). That got him over the not weeing crisis but then I think it wrecked his gut so he got gut pain and just stopped eating. Obviously I was still syringe feeding when i could and in night but he lost more weight. We worked out we had to get his gut going again so have weaned him off the various meds so that he is just on metacam now(twice a day) and pearl barley water/syringe food . But he is on a knife edge. Thursday was good - especially evening, eating hay, herbs etc. Friday was awful - fluffed up and not eating at all himself. Today he is more active but wobbly with the weight loss (heartbreaking).
Oh yes and has been rexrayed to check no other stones missed and there were none.

Anyone got any tips on such a long recovery road? Really can't give up on him now but it is such a battle.
 
helen105281 said:
Wow, what a journey bless him. Have you considered anything like Cystease/Cystophan or vegan glucosamine in addition to the Metacam and Barley water?
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Hi yes - I have vegan glucosamine and he has had some but I will keep going. You thinking it is still bladder / urethral pain?
 
It sounds like bladder trauma (inflammation in the wake of all damage that the stone has done to the bladder or urethra). It is not quite rare that this can continue for a while after a bladder stone and it is very painful. Hang on in there - and best of luck!

You could additionally try barley water to the suggestions from @helen105281 . Some people swear on its healing qualities and at least it is not interfering with any other meds. Boil a small amount of pearl barley in a bit of water for 20-40 minutes, then sieve the gloopy fluid into a bowl, let cool and syringe. If it is too gloopy, dilute with a little water. Syringe twice daily as much as Sudoku will take. Piggies generally like it. Store in the fridge and make a new batch regularly.
 
Poppy'sMum said:
It sounds like residual inflammation & swelling now so pain relief will be essential for quite some time. What tyoe of Metacam & what dose is he on? How much does he weugh now? xx
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Hi. Dog metacam 0.35ml twice a day - he is 850g - on a good day :(. My vet is pretty focused on pain relief - it is just the tramadol might have disturbed his guts. The problem is there is probably bladder pain and gut pain. He is normally a lot heavier as he is a big strong boar.
 
Wiebke said:
It sounds like bladder trauma (inflammation in the wake of all damage that the stone has done to the bladder or urethra). It is not quite rare that this can continue for a while after a bladder stone and it is very painful. Hang on in there - and best of luck!

You could additionally try barley water to the suggestions from @helen105281 . Some people swear on its healing qualities and at least it is not interfering with any other meds. Boil a small amount of pearl barley in a bit of water for 20-40 minutes, then sieve the gloopy fluid into a bowl, let cool and syringe. If it is too gloopy, dilute with a little water. Syringe twice daily as much as Sudoku will take. Piggies generally like it. Store in the fridge and make a new batch regularly.
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Hi Wiebke - yes I already have him on the pearl barley water and he loves it thankfully. I will just keep going with all of those things. He has just had a little sticky weed from the garden but the food intake overall is pathetic compared to his usual robust self.
 
lauraboara said:
Hi. Dog metacam 0.35ml twice a day - he is 850g - on a good day :(. My vet is pretty focused on pain relief - it is just the tramadol might have disturbed his guts. The problem is there is probably bladder pain and gut pain. He is normally a lot heavier as he is a big strong boar.
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It can take quite weeks or months after a major operation/slow recovery for the weight to come back on. it is good that your vet is on the ball with the pain relief. Concentrate on keeping him as comfy as you can, topping him up with syringe feed and trying to keep the lower weight as steady as possible. Your boy is still in pain, so is not out of recovery yet. :(
 
Sounds like poor Sudoku is really just recovering from the major trauma of the stone and surgery. It's natural that there would be plenty of inflammation after trauma like that . Your vet is clearly on the ball with the pain relief. I think it's just a long slow process in getting on top of the pain and inflammation and to keep supporting him with top up feeds to help him along.
 
Thanks - yes I will keep going with the pain relief and other ideas. I think the roller coaster of a good and bad days has just been nerve wracking - I was expecting / hoping for a more gradual improvement which I have seen in my other piggies after less complex ops but it hasn't been like that and the low points have been worrying. But he is still going and just trying to eat a green bean!
 
Bumble has had 2 bladder surgeries and has a lot of bladder trauma - he has also had 2 surgeries on his side also near the bladder and has adhesions and some tissue trauma to the wall of the bladder that give him pain - it can take several weeks for the pain to reduce from the bladder op,so as the others say just keep up with it - I too was worried about Bumbles weight so vet told me to feed apple and pears as they are good for helping to put on weight and not as high in sugar as bananas (she has piggies herself) .You could try him on 2ml of fizzy water 3 times a day (this is what Bumble is currently on ) in the hope that it might flush out any small stones or sludge that may be hanging around - Once he is better you might like to try the preventative medicine that Bumble is on that my vet has adapted for use in guineas,as it is used to help prevent stones forming in humans - it costs £10 and lasts for a couple of months - my vet is happy to give your vet the details of how to make it up.Fingers crossed that he feels better soon,but it is a long slow road with the bladder sometimes.
 
I have nothing further to add, just wishing Sudoku well and hoping he turns the corner soon. I really feel for you Laura, it is so emotionally draining when it is unclear what the outcome is likely to be, sometimes its easier if you know they are not going to recover. Its the uncertainty and stress that is so difficult in these situations. What a great piggy carer you are x
 
Aw bless him Laura, I'm so sorry that it's been such a long recovery. Can I ask if he's having difficulty eating, I know when P had bladder problems he also had problems with his teeth. I think they perhaps overgrew when he was poorly.

Pain killer is definitely essential, hopefully things will improve soon. It's nerve wracking when you physically can't see an end. I have had two pig's both stopped eating for 6 weeks both due to underlying illness so I can empathise both recovered well so keep going!

Gentle strokes to your boy.
 
pig in the city said:
I have nothing further to add, just wishing Sudoku well and hoping he turns the corner soon. I really feel for you Laura, it is so emotionally draining when it is unclear what the outcome is likely to be, sometimes its easier if you know they are not going to recover. Its the uncertainty and stress that is so difficult in these situations. What a great piggy carer you are x
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Thanks B and for your 'behind the scenes support' as usual. Don't say anything nice to me tho or I might blub - v tired! He is very much the same this morning.
 
flintstones said:
Aw bless him Laura, I'm so sorry that it's been such a long recovery. Can I ask if he's having difficulty eating, I know when P had bladder problems he also had problems with his teeth. I think they perhaps overgrew when he was poorly.

Pain killer is definitely essential, hopefully things will improve soon. It's nerve wracking when you physically can't see an end. I have had two pig's both stopped eating for 6 weeks both due to underlying illness so I can empathise both recovered well so keep going!

Gentle strokes to your boy.
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Hi. Yes I am keeping an eye out for teeth signs and he vet had a look when he had a second set of xrays and looked ok for now. He is eating some hay and cardboard but all his normal veg eg cucumber, peppers, celery, spring greens, lettuce he is rejecting. Even grass he is nibbles at then leaves. But the poohs and wees are still happening so that is something. Will pass on the strokes!
 
So sorry to read Sudoku is causing you such concern. I cannot offer any advice as Rupert hasn't had any stone issues (fingers crossed).
But you are taking him to a vet who can give you the best support and treatment.
Sending healing vibes through the Yorkshire airwaves.
 
Sudoku is still battling on but painfully thin. But tiny bits of appetite returning - has tried some grass, herbs and some bits of veg. Very poorly still but just hoping he can start to eat more normally now - preferably before I crack up;)
 
Ugh, was too soon to be positive - tiny bits of veg and he has gone a bit bloaty -I suppose it is because he has had so little for 4 weeks?
 
lauraboara said:
Ugh, was too soon to be positive - tiny bits of veg and he has gone a bit bloaty -I suppose it is because he has had so little for 4 weeks?
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Just stop the veg for the moment and things will hopefully right themselves. Between the pain and his meds, his digestive system is a bit impacted, poor boy!
 
Hi Particularly @flintstones and @Wiebke any thoughts about whether quite a lot of pearl barley water could be contributing to Sudoku's ongoing stomach gripes? I am observing him pretty much endlessly and I would say that he is quite comfortable weeing now but his gut is not comfortable. It is so hard to pin point cause and effect and I don't really want to stop the pearl barley water because of bladder issues but just wondering if the grain element is adding to gut imbalance? He is eating hay OK by the way but still needs quite a lot of syringe feeding too.
 
lauraboara said:
Hi Particularly @flintstones and @Wiebke any thoughts about whether quite a lot of pearl barley water could be contributing to Sudoku's ongoing stomach gripes? I am observing him pretty much endlessly and I would say that he is quite comfortable weeing now but his gut is not comfortable. It is so hard to pin point cause and effect and I don't really want to stop the pearl barley water because of bladder issues but just wondering if the grain element is adding to gut imbalance? He is eating hay OK by the way but still needs quite a lot of syringe feeding too.
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It is hard to say - if in doubt, I would stop with the pearl barley and see whether it makes any change.
 
He is such a fighter. Maybe he is swallowing a lot of air with the syringe feeding as well? They can't burp it up like we can, but he obviously needs feeding. What a dilemma. Poor little boy. Sending you a hug Laura, it seems endless doesn't it, but at least his bladder has improved x
 
pig in the city said:
He is such a fighter. Maybe he is swallowing a lot of air with the syringe feeding as well? They can't burp it up like we can, but he obviously needs feeding. What a dilemma. Poor little boy. Sending you a hug Laura, it seems endless doesn't it, but at least his bladder has improved x
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Yes I wondering whether it was a physical thing rather than a chemical digestion thing. The syringe feeds are getting calmer because it is becoming routine so hopefully that will reduce the air going in - maybe. Thanks for hug.
 
Both Sudoku and I are struggling :(. I can't get him to 'turn the corner' and eat more independently and we are nearly at six weeks post op. If I slightly reduce syringe feeding from several lots of day then he loses whatever tiny bit of weight he might have put on the day before....
Is this pointless now and am i prolonging death rather than life? Which I really don't want to do.
+ves = he does walk around, drink from bottle, weeing fine, talk to me a bit, he is not fluffed up or hunched, is eating hay (some)
-ves = can't get his weight to move up and it can drop in a few hours of no syringe feeds, won't eat veg or dry food - tiny nibble and gives up, looks uncomfortable when pooing, poohs small but still being produced, not happy and mainly sits in a nest of hay, tummy 'rumbly'.

I could reintroduce bigger painkillers eg Tramadol for a trial this weekend and see what happens? He is on Metacam and Glucosamine only at mo. So tired of worrying - any ideas please, please, please?
PS Syringe feeds are not stressing him - he is pretty chilled during them now
 
Sorry Laura just seen this!

I would definitely introduce stronger pain killer, ie Tramadol. With the Tramadol it took a couple of days to get the dosage right. We gave it twice daily 0.02 but ended up going up to three times per day 0.06ml's it made a huge difference. With Tramadol the dosage range is massive so trial and error with your vet is necessary.

When my Penfold was terminally Tramadol was able to give him quality of life. I kept him on Tramadol until it wouldn't stop the pain and then decided to let him go.

I have had two pig's in the past stop eating for 6 weeks both needed constant syringe feeding. Wilma just didn't move and she looked space this went on for sometime we just could not find the cause. We did every test going, and then decided as a last ditch attempt we would try antibiotics. I was seriously considering PTS as she was just so miserable. I couldn't believe it, she recovered - turns out she had a Urine infection, Fred had a throat infection and dental issues but he did recover and both piggies are still here.
 
flintstones said:
Sorry Laura just seen this!

I would definitely introduce stronger pain killer, ie Tramadol. With the Tramadol it took a couple of days to get the dosage right. We gave it twice daily 0.02 but ended up going up to three times per day 0.06ml's it made a huge difference. With Tramadol the dosage range is massive so trial and error with your vet is necessary.

When my Penfold was terminally Tramadol was able to give him quality of life. I kept him on Tramadol until it wouldn't stop the pain and then decided to let him go.

I have had two pig's in the past stop eating for 6 weeks both needed constant syringe feeding. Wilma just didn't move and she looked space this went on for sometime we just could not find the cause. We did every test going, and then decided as a last ditch attempt we would try antibiotics. I was seriously considering PTS as she was just so miserable. I couldn't believe it, she recovered - turns out she had a Urine infection, Fred had a throat infection and dental issues but he did recover and both piggies are still here.
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Thanks Jo - appreciate the reply - feeling rather on my own with this because the vet cover is not the vet I know because it is Easter weekend.
I was thinking that I would have to take him to be PTS today but then he keeps defying me and is just eating a bit of banana skin and hay! Vet has gone at 0.1ml Tramadol twice day when it was dispensed to me after his op (100mg/ml) and I have reintroduced that yesterday eve when he looked cr*p. Good to know that you have had 2 pigs that needed such a long period of intensive feeding (not good for you or them at the time tho..) He is on the edge though and if he goes further downhill, I will have to think about PTS descison :(. I will see what the tramadol does over the day.
 
Mine was also dispensed at 100mg/ml - do you mean 0.01ml or 0.1ml on a 1ml syringe? 0.1ml is a big dose so pain should not be an issue for him on that dose but may make him a bit dopey!
 
flintstones said:
Mine was also dispensed at 100mg/ml - do you mean 0.01ml or 0.1ml on a 1ml syringe? 0.1ml is a big dose so pain should not be an issue for him on that dose but may make him a bit dopey!
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Yes I do mean the bigger dose - and yes it does make him a bit dopey so I will reduce a bit if I get him over this latest low point. He is just eating some grass - he rejected that yesterday so maybe tramadol already helping? exhausting amounts of worry!
 
It's very possible I seen a huge change in Penfold when he had it. Good he's eating grass, well he's eating and pottering I wouldn't say it's his time but only you know him and how he is acting.
 
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