Sugar - seeing the vet for IC/UTI

[Scooter Pie]

I want to thank this site for all the amazing info. Ive read countless threads on IC. This is long so thank you for taking the time to read!

Today my 2-3 year old large (1250+g) absynnian mix Sugar is seeing the vet for the second time, for blood/pain when urinating.

I need your help sharing what advice your vets have given. Do they advocate for cystease/extra glucosamine during flares? Do they commonly know IC is a "thing" and recommend the double doses of glucosamine for a few days?

Ive been attempting to get Sugar to take 1 capsule plus one oxbow joint support (90mg glucosamine) and it definitely helps.

My vet is just learning piggie care. My recently departed Buttercup was her first patient! She had major struggles with IC, UTIs, sludge and small stones, plus ovarian cysts (they would not spay her)

I guess what I'm hoping is that she becomes aware of treatments for IC, that it is in fact common, but that noone in the US seems to know about it.

I struggle with home care advice and vet authorized advice. She only recommended to give 1 oxbow a day for glucosamine, and said more was a bleeding risk. She has ok'd .23ml meloxicam once a day as needed for 3-4 days before we start antibiotics. That's what we did for Buttercup. Oh and she was on potassium citrate and hydrochlorothiazide for life too.

The one other time Sugar had blood and pain, she did a urinalysis via cystocentisis and saw lots of sediment but no bacteria, so we did meloxicam for a few days and it cleared up. So it's likely IC flare again.

I just really need her to recommend the extra glucosamine! I'm probably going to do it anyway. What is the real risk?

I wish she could consult with one of your vets!

 

[Claire W]

Aw sugar is beautiful I’m so sorry that she has IC and that your vet isn’t clued up but it sounds like she is trying. With my past piggies who had IC, they had one full capsule of cystease daily and metacam which we increased the dose when they were having a flare and when they were really bad, they were put on a course of antibiotics for a few weeks. Sorry, I’m not much help but I hope you get on ok at the vets x

 

[Scooter Pie]

Aw sugar is beautiful I’m so sorry that she has IC and that your vet isn’t clued up but it sounds like she is trying. With my past piggies who had IC, they had one full capsule of cystease daily and metacam which we increased the dose when they were having a flare and when they were really bad, they were put on a course of antibiotics for a few weeks. Sorry, I’m not much help but I hope you get on ok at the vets x

That is very helpful, thank you! Sugar's a special girl with her backwards fur. She will allow some ear scratches while in her home on occasion!

Have you ever had a piggie who needed to be spayed? I fear that is her future (getting cysts). She's just so naturally fat around the middle. We call her Miss Jiggle

The vet that originally saw Buttercup and trained our new vet/kept in touch with questions did not want to spay her. She said her outcomes were not the best. That seems different outside the US too. Seems you guys do spays and even routine neutering all the time!

 

[Wiebke]

I want to thank this site for all the amazing info. Ive read countless threads on IC. This is long so thank you for taking the time to read!

Today my 2-3 year old large (1250+g) absynnian mix Sugar is seeing the vet for the second time, for blood/pain when urinating.

I need your help sharing what advice your vets have given. Do they advocate for cystease/extra glucosamine during flares? Do they commonly know IC is a "thing" and recommend the double doses of glucosamine for a few days?

Ive been attempting to get Sugar to take 1 capsule plus one oxbow joint support (90mg glucosamine) and it definitely helps.

My vet is just learning piggie care. My recently departed Buttercup was her first patient! She had major struggles with IC, UTIs, sludge and small stones, plus ovarian cysts (they would not spay her)

I guess what I'm hoping is that she becomes aware of treatments for IC, that it is in fact common, but that noone in the US seems to know about it.

I struggle with home care advice and vet authorized advice. She only recommended to give 1 oxbow a day for glucosamine, and said more was a bleeding risk. She has ok'd .23ml meloxicam once a day as needed for 3-4 days before we start antibiotics. That's what we did for Buttercup. Oh and she was on potassium citrate and hydrochlorothiazide for life too.

The one other time Sugar had blood and pain, she did a urinalysis via cystocentisis and saw lots of sediment but no bacteria, so we did meloxicam for a few days and it cleared up. So it's likely IC flare again.

I just really need her to recommend the extra glucosamine! I'm probably going to do it anyway. What is the real risk?

I wish she could consult with one of your vets!
View attachment 190163

IC is all about individual management.
The first stage is basically getting on top of it, which may take a few weeks in mild to medium cases and allowing the glucosamine to build up. During this time, you will need to use a higher dosage of metacam and glucosamine to help ease the symptoms and to replenish the glucosamine layer.

Once the IC settles into a distinct pattern between flares and quiet symptom-free phases, you can then start playing around with how little glucosamine and metacam your piggy needs for maintenance (i.e. without acute symptoms showing) and how much you need to up it to get on top of a flare as quickly as possible. Since IC can individually vary enormously in strength and should be rather seen as a sliding scale rather than a fixed illness, it is generally up to you to figure out what works best for your piggy. When seeing my own vets over a sterile IC piggy or any other long term health issue that can flare up from time to time, I have taken to ask my vet as to what should be the minimal dosage and how much can I give maximally during an acute phase so I have the flexibility to manage the issue optimally but can stay within the correct bandwidth of safe dosages. .

Half a capsule per day is enough for maintenance in milder cases where you can go up to one capsule in a flare.
If you require one capsule a day to keep your piggy symptom free in between flares in the long term, then you want to discuss with your vet how high you can safely go with your piggy during an acute flare.

If these measures turn out to be not enough and you are dealing with a more severe ot very severe form, then please discuss the use of cartrofen.

I hope that this helps you?

 

[Scooter Pie]

IC is all about individual management.
The first stage is basically getting on top of it, which may take a few weeks in mild to medium cases and allowing the glucosamine to build up. During this time, you will need to use a higher dosage of metacam and glucosamine to help ease the symptoms and to replenish the glucosamine layer.

Once the IC settles into a distinct pattern between flares and quiet phases, you can then start playing around with how little glucosamine and metacam your piggy needs for maintenance and how much you need to up it to get on top of a flare as quickly as possible. Since IC can individually vary enormously in strength and should be rather seen as a sliding scale rather than a fixed illness, it is generally up to you to figure out what works best for your piggy. When seeing my own vets over a sterile IC piggy or any other long term health issue that can flare up from time to time, I have taken to ask my vet as to what should be the minimal dosage and how much can I give maximally during an acute phase so I have the flexibility to manage the issue optimally but can stay within the currect bandwidth of safe dosages. .

Half a capsule per day is enough for maintenance in milder cases where you can go up to one capsule in a flare.
If you require one capsule a day to keep your piggy symptom free in between flares in the long term, then you want to discuss with your vet how high you can safely go with your piggy during an acute flare.

If these measures turn out to be not enough and you are dealing with a more severe ot very severe form, then please discuss the use of cartrofen.

I hope that this helps you?

Wonderful. Very helpful! Thank you!

 

[Merab's Slave]

Holding you in my thoughts

 

[Deleted member 147427]

I want to thank this site for all the amazing info. Ive read countless threads on IC. This is long so thank you for taking the time to read!

Today my 2-3 year old large (1250+g) absynnian mix Sugar is seeing the vet for the second time, for blood/pain when urinating.

I need your help sharing what advice your vets have given. Do they advocate for cystease/extra glucosamine during flares? Do they commonly know IC is a "thing" and recommend the double doses of glucosamine for a few days?

Ive been attempting to get Sugar to take 1 capsule plus one oxbow joint support (90mg glucosamine) and it definitely helps.

My vet is just learning piggie care. My recently departed Buttercup was her first patient! She had major struggles with IC, UTIs, sludge and small stones, plus ovarian cysts (they would not spay her)

I guess what I'm hoping is that she becomes aware of treatments for IC, that it is in fact common, but that noone in the US seems to know about it.

I struggle with home care advice and vet authorized advice. She only recommended to give 1 oxbow a day for glucosamine, and said more was a bleeding risk. She has ok'd .23ml meloxicam once a day as needed for 3-4 days before we start antibiotics. That's what we did for Buttercup. Oh and she was on potassium citrate and hydrochlorothiazide for life too.

The one other time Sugar had blood and pain, she did a urinalysis via cystocentisis and saw lots of sediment but no bacteria, so we did meloxicam for a few days and it cleared up. So it's likely IC flare again.

I just really need her to recommend the extra glucosamine! I'm probably going to do it anyway. What is the real risk?

I wish she could consult with one of your vets!
View attachment 190163

Aww sugar is adorable hope she gets better soon

 

[Scooter Pie]

Leaving for the appointment soon. I will let you all know how it goes!

 

[artcasper]

My piggie has IC and after her initial infection was treated and gone she used to cry when weeing all the time... she now gets Cystease every day (i mix capsules in filtered water) and she has 2 syringes every night - about 2ml.. she has been fine ever since.... i made the mistake of giving her a bit of melon when it was HOT and that caused a small flare up so we avoid fruit now.. good luck at the vets

 

[Scooter Pie]

I'm here with her and they took her back to hopefully get a sterile urine sample and see what's going on.

Good news, I told the vet about the cystease and she says it's fine, and getting info here is exactly what she would do as a pet owner

 

[Scooter Pie]

Umm....before they attempted the cysto they looked at her bladder on ultrasound and have found what might be a polyp in her bladder :/ The head vet here is taking a closer look. He's not an exotic vet but experienced with ultrasound.


The good news is that our original exotic vet is coming back for one day next week and may be able to add some insight.

For now it'll be more meloxicam and a course of antibiotics.

 

[Scooter Pie]

Ok nevermind...the other vet didnt see what she saw above. Maybe it was some sediment that had clumped together? She did get a urine sample and is having it tested and then we may do a short course of potassium citrate and hydrochlorothiazide if there are a lot of crystals.

I should know more in a few days and we're going back Monday.

 

[Wiebke]

All the best!

 

[Claire W]

That is very helpful, thank you! Sugar's a special girl with her backwards fur. She will allow some ear scratches while in her home on occasion!

Have you ever had a piggie who needed to be spayed? I fear that is her future (getting cysts). She's just so naturally fat around the middle. We call her Miss Jiggle

The vet that originally saw Buttercup and trained our new vet/kept in touch with questions did not want to spay her. She said her outcomes were not the best. That seems different outside the US too. Seems you guys do spays and even routine neutering all the time!

Sorry, no, I’ve never had a piggy spayed but I know plenty of people on the forum have and had successful outcomes. Of course, there’s always a risk though. My late Emma had an ovarian cyst but as it wasn’t bothering her and she was an elderly pig, my vet just kept an eye on it until she died of something unrelated

All the best with the ultrasound. I’ve no experience of polyps x

 

[Scooter Pie]

Having a nice relaxing thanksgiving, and heard from the vet about her UA. Just crystals, no infection! So we'll be treating for those and IC.

 

[Wiebke]

Having a nice relaxing thanksgiving, and heard from the vet about her UA. Just crystals, no infection! So we'll be treating for those and IC.
View attachment 190270View attachment 190271

All the best!

Please be aware that the largest amount of calcium comes from water (especially in medium to hard water areas) and from pellets. Even no added calcium pellets contain more calcium weight for weight than kale, the veg highest in calcium; which is why we recommend 1 tablespoon per piggy per day.
Our IC diet recommendations also work for bladder stones/sludge.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

 

[Scooter Pie]

All the best!

Please be aware that the largest amount of calcium comes from water (especially in medium to hard water areas) and from pellets. Even no added calcium pellets contain more calcium weight for weight than kale, the veg highest in calcium; which is why we recommend 1 tablespoon per piggy per day.
Our IC diet recommendations also work for bladder stones/sludge.
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Thank you! We only give them Brita filtered water. And actually only 1/2 tbs per pig per day for Sugar and her cage mate. Sometimes I wonder why I even give it to them, other than as a treat and they enjoy foraging for it.

They do get 1 oxbow vitamin C treat day, and Sugar gets an oxbow joint support for the glucosamine...but I also have cystease capsules and liquid vitamin C. Would the latter be better for C and glucosamine daily? The C treats say 1.1% calcium and nothing is listed on the joint support bag.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you! We only give them Brita filtered water. And actually only 1/2 tbs per pig per day for Sugar and her cage mate. Sometimes I wonder why I even give it to them, other than as a treat and they enjoy foraging for it.

They do get 1 oxbow vitamin C treat day, and Sugar gets an oxbow joint support for the glucosamine...but I also have cystease capsules and liquid vitamin C. Would the latter be better for C and glucosamine daily? The C treats say 1.1% calcium and nothing is listed on the joint support bag.

Please don't overdo the vitamin C additive. The vast majority of scurvy cases we see on here are ironically not from piggies with malnutrition issues but from guinea pigs with too much vitamin C in their diet. Their bodies adapt to the high daily levels but as soon as that level drops for some reason, they will react with scurvy symptoms even though the actual vitamin C level is still well above normal. You need to reduce any overfeeding of vitamin C gradually in order to avoid scurvy symptoms. Please keep in mind that vitamin C is in most things that guinea pigs eat - high in fresh growing grass (not so high in hay and winter/summer grass), veg and fresh herbs, pellets, recovery formula etc...
In all honesty, none of our long term members have ever supplemented their piggies with extra vitamin C but none of us ever had a scurvy problem with their piggies. The less highly processed products you feed, the better.