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Sundae bladder infection, round two...

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Freela

Freela

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I don't know what has been going on with my pigs over the past few months- we had gone through years with no bladder problems, only to be plagued by infections in both piggies over the past few months. Linney had a UTI diagnosed in early September- she went through three weeks of treatment with Baytril and was fine. In November, we once again found bloody urine in the cage and took both pigs to the vet with separate urine samples- that time Linney was clear, but Sundae had a UTI. She took two weeks of antibiotics and appeared fine, and since the vet was closed over Christmas and we were extremely busy with the holidays, I didn't take a sample back to be tested after the antibiotic course was over. Bad me, I know. This morning my kids woke me up to tell me that someone had bloody urine, and after getting each to pee in a container, it is obviously Sundae again. She is booked to see the vet in the morning (earliest they could see her) and she is acting quite normal- eating, begging, running around, and otherwise completely normal except for the dark, orange/pink colour of her urine. I did have a tiny bit of Baytril left over from her last infection, so I gave her the usual dose and will probably have enough to give her the second usual dose tonight before she sees the vet in the morning. I didn't x-ray for stones last time because I was hoping it was just a one-time thing, but now that we have a recurrence I will x-ray her for stones tomorrow.

Can anyone help me troubleshoot why all of a sudden I am having this problem? We don't give foods too high in calcium. They are on a timothy hay pellet, unlimited timothy hay, and a random assortment of fresh fruits/veggies. We had switched to a cheaper paper bedding over the summer before these issues started, but I switched back to Carefresh which I have never had any problems with after Sundae's last infection. Is there anything I can give them proactively to try to promote bladder health- cranberry juice or anything like that? Any ideas?

Just wanted to pick your brains- please send me some get well vibes for Sundae- I will update after her vet appointment in the morning.
 
Sorry to hear this Freela, we feel like we'd been plagued with bladder issues last year too.

What I would recommend is first ruling out stones this will give you piece of mind and allow you to look at other causes. Hopefully stones can be ruled out and then look at further treatment. *A xray and ultrasound would be able to show you if there is any inflamation to the bladder wall.

I would also recommend getting a urine culture performed, the urine to be cultured would need to be taken before she had any antibiotics so maybe don't get this done this time as you've gave her a dose of baytrill already, but this is something to think about in the future if it occurs again - This can tell you for sure if there is bacteria causing UTI's.
It could possibly be a stubborn UTI, some piggies are more susceptible to them than others, Would your vet would prescribe Septrin? this is widely regarded as the drug of choice against UTI's.

Has she tried any pain killers such as metacam as this is an anti inflammatory So will help with any inflammation in the bladder and also help with the pain.

Lots of healing vibes to Sundae, please let us know how she gets on x
 
So, my Sundae update. Not as good as I was hoping. :( She did indeed have blood in her urine again. After an x-ray, we were able to determine that she does indeed have one stone in the bladder. Not that large, but large enough that the vet said that it would be unlikely to pass on it's own (but, on the bring side, would be unlikely to lodge in the urethra and cause problems that way.) This is the cause of the recurrent UTI.

So... I'm pretty upset. I priced out the surgical option. It is ridiculously expensive for my finances- about three weeks' salary. I also have three kids, a student loan, a mortgage, a car payment, etc. I have money saved for 'vet emergencies' but never expected this sort of price (for comparison, the other surgeries I have had for my piggies have been approximately $200. This would be between $1000-$1500 dollars, paid in full upfront.) I simply do not have that amount in hand right now. The vet seemed to feel that conservative management (treating symptoms as they arise with an eye out for quality of life and deterioration) is a valid option. We would treat UTIs as they come up, and I'm at this point trying to do research about what is the best way to manage her, as guinea pig treatment in Canada seems pretty limited compared to the US, so I want to be knowledgeable/assertive. Right now she is home on Baytril for two weeks. I need info from you about anti-inflammatories that I should ask for, since I understand that is also necessary but is not really prescribed to piggies in Canada (they are more treated as disposable pets who no one gets care for, which is sad and leads to vets not having as much experience with them as with dogs and cats.) In doing my research I read tons of conflicting stuff- everything from info about management to the opinions that her quality of life is so miserable that I'm a cruel owner for not euthanising her on the spot. She doesn't appear miserable- she eats, popcorns, grooms herself, steals food from her sister, runs around, begs for food, etc. Ironically, I have bladder/kidney issues too, and although I am sometimes uncomfortable, I don't wish I was dead instead. But it really makes me doubt myself and makes me feel like I'm torturing her by even trying to manage her symptoms like this. The vet and I did discuss her diet... since she is already on what the vet would recommend, there is not a lot to switch for her. The vet did say that if she developed a stone on this diet, she is probably genetically predisposed to developing stones, though I should still be very mindful about what she eats because it can only help.

At any rate... I said I would update, so there it is. I am really lost here. I will save for surgery, but I can't miss a mortgage payment or a loan payment in order to do it tomorrow. Please, PLEASE don't blast me for this. If money was not an object... but we don't live in that world. So right now I'm just upset... wondering how I should manage care, wondering if I'm being cruel for even wanting to manage her care if she's suffering. She doesn't seem to be suffering, but I know small animals are good at masking pain. She's on two weeks of Baytril right now and then we go back to the vet for a follow-up appt/urinalysis. So I need to have thought this through by then. Any advice on what she should be on to manage the UTI/inflammation and keep her as comfortable and pain-free as possible? Or is this something I should not even be considering, and if I can't afford the surgery immediately is it kinder to put her down even if she seems normal in terms of eating/behaviour? Please be gentle, I'm a little heartbroken right now. :(
 
Oh Freela, sorry you have found little Sundae has a stone.
She will definately benefit from pain killing medication such as Metacam it is often known as Meloxicam, it is available in 2 strengths Dog and Cat strength, it is a painkller and anti inflamatory it is licenced for use within guinea pigs. Please contact your vet about this ASAP. Is she crying when weeing or pooing?

I understand how hard it must be especially as you haven't got the finances to fund Sundae's operation straight away. We take it for granted in the UK how resonable vet prices can be. Would your vet allow you to set up a payment plan for the operation? Unfortunately a operation is the only way to rid Sundae of this bladder stone. Have a big hug and lots of love to Sundae x
 
Thanks! She'll be going back the day after tomorrow to add a painkiller. Unfortunately the vet does not have payment plans (money needs to be paid up front in full.) I could shop around for other vets, but I have done so before and the prices seem to be comparable because you are essentially paying to see a specialist (very, very few vets here treat guinea pigs- or some will, but have no experience doing it. I have already lost one piggie due, at least in part, to a vet who was unfamiliar with guinea pigs but still willing to charge me for treatment that was sub-par, and at the time I was too naive to know.) I have a good exotics vet, and unfortunately this is the price in my area for a good exotics vet.

She really does not appear to be in any discomfort- she doesn't even squeak or hunch to pee. She has lost no weight. Her behaviour is totally normal as far as play and attitude and appetite go. Honestly, if not for the blood in her urine I would not suspect for a moment that she had a health problem. If I had a bedding where I couldn't see the colour of the urine in it, I would think she was totally fine.
 
Just to add, I'm trying to put in as much overtime as I can to add to my vet fund. I have to cost so I know what I would have to save for, and since I'm self-employed and am paid for the amount of work completed, I have some ability to work more time and make more money. Unfortunately things have been slow over Christmas as far as work availability, but I hope that will improve. That way if we can maintain her comfortable for the time being, I will have the option to do the op at some point in the future should she seemed to be deteriorating. I'm also cutting her calcium almost completely (vet suggested having her on timothy hay, timothy pellets, and distilled water only) and will repeat the x-ray in the future. The vet's opinion when I spoke to her was that if she continues to form or increase the size of stones on a restricted diet, she is likely to continue to form stones even post-surgery, which may change my decision in terms of her care if she deteriorates.

Feeling a bit more calm about this today... I just hope that there is lots of work for me over the next couple of weeks so I can work my butt off and save up.
 
There's a good chance that a stone would come back anyway, even after an operation. :( I have a 6 year old, who has had bladder issues of various sorts since she was only one (I won't bore you with all the history unless you need it!) She was recently going to be put to sleep, as she'd really relapsed, was in horrible pain and was incontinent.

Diet-wise, I try to feed things that aren't too high in calcium or phosphorus, and whose magnesium content isn't too low. It isn't possible to be really exacting over this, but the best mineral balanced veggies I've found are savoy cabbage and coriander (cilantro). I don't know if you can get these where you are. She also gets a bit of pepper and cucumber, but that's mainly for enjoyment. The green pepper is the best mineral balanced of the red and green, as I recall. I once read that romaine lettuce can cause bladder issues, and that does seem to be the case with Cassie. The magnesium content is included in the Guinea Lynx chart in another post.

The thing that I have found to be most important is switching to a very low calcium bottled water. Here Deeside is the lowest - the calcium content is about 4 mg/l. This is way lower than something like Evian, or even Volvic. If I can't get Deeside, I get Isklar, which is about 6 mg/l, but she goes really downhill even with a tiny extra bit of calcium.

Her recent turnaround from being ready to be put to sleep is brewing up marshmallow root and cornsilk daily. I must admit, this was all a bit of a last ditch effort to ensure to myself that I'd tried everything, but it really has been quite miraculous. She's now totally dry, as long as I give her a syringe of the brew four times a day (a bit restrictive for going out!) It seems to protect the bladder lining against tears and therefore bleeding and infection. Touch wood, she's really on good form at the moment, although I'm realistic about how much time I've got left with her.

Give me a shout if you want any more information on any of this.
 
Thanks very much for the info! One thing that I never, ever thought of was the calcium content in the water- I just give them tapwater because that's what I drink. I've now purchased a big jug of reverse-osmosis filtered water and will be giving them that. It has a calcium content near zero. I'm not sure what our tapwater's calcium content is, but I bet it's higher than that! It's something that I really never thought about before reading it online. I will try some cilantro- I know it's available here. She hates peppers- both my pigs do! But I'll keep trying. And thanks for the homeopathic remedies as well- I'm doing some research in that area, since I'm pretty sure that veterinary homeopathy is not too advanced where I am, even to vets. And Pelicano, thanks so much for giving me some hope about living a long life with bladder issues. Sundae will be 3 in late April, and I would like to have her with us a lot longer than that, as long as her quality of life is good!
 
Oh yes, you should be fine with reverse osmosis water. You can't buy that here (to my knowledge). I keep my bottled water in the fridge, but boil it up and cool it before filling the bottle, so any bacteria are killed. What is your tap water like there? Ours is classed as 'very hard', and even our regular jug water filter doesn't reduce the calcium content down much.

Feel free to PM if you need to chat about any of this, either now or in the future. :)
 
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