VeeAngel
New Born Pup
Hi forum! I'm a first time guinea pig human-companion, and hoping for some advise on surgery recovery.
Some background. My bonded boar pair are rescues from the SPCA and moved into my home at the end of June 2020. They were estimated at 3 years old, but I know from past experience that the SPCA isn't always given accurate information at surrender. Still, they seem like pretty active, adult piggies, with none of the signs of extremely senior pigs. I've made plenty of rookie mistakes since adoption, and am constantly reading more and more, and trying to become a better piggie momma. I'd say it took 2-3 weeks before they were more relaxed being held and less nippy in a cuddle.
Normal cage set up and my pair behaviour
Approx. 6ft x 4ft Run/play space in the middle (fleece lined), with cages on each side that are 3ft x 1.5 ft (paper bedding). I'm been increasing the hidey areas, and doubling everything. My boys, Samson and Deano Beano are pretty happy, although I do see dominance behaviours, but I've never seen wounds or blood from a disagreement.
Samson is the more dominant pig (although Deano is bigger and stronger). Samson is often chasing around Deano and doing his rumble butt until Deano either successfully ignores him, or runs away and chatters. Every now and again, Samson will chase Deano out of a hidey (I have two pods with only one entrance, which normally isn't an issue, but every now and again Sammy is a jerk and will shove in). I've also noticed one or both of the piggies will sometimes sit in front of the water, or food bowl in a power move. They seem to do this regardless of how many options they have, but increasing placement of food and multiple water sources does help. They will often sit and munch hay together from the feeder bag (I now have two, which I will make available going forward). Sometimes there is a "nose-off" at the hay bag or feed bowl, but doesn't generally escalate. I don't see much cuddling between them, unless there is something very stressful going on, but they don't seem to scrap either.
Surgery
Deano Beano had a decent size cyst right of the top of his rump/back. It was checked by the vet and not infected, and we decided to have it surgically removed. I angsted over this a lot, and didn't like the idea of putting him under...since the cyst wasn't infected or seemingly life threatening. Although on hindsight, I'm glad I did, as they cyst went all the way under the muscle layer, and the vet had to so some internal stitching of the muscles. It definitely wasn't going to heal up and go away, and could have introduced infection in the future.
The vet is a guinea pig specialist (actually not Deano Beano's normal vet, who is also a specialist, but she was not available for the initial appointment for several weeks, so we went with their recommendation of another vet in the area who is even more seasoned with piggies).
They sent me home with recovery formula (Oxbow), antibiotics (30mg Enrofloxacin) and some instructions. I have a followup call on Thursday, and will do a week checkup on Nov 14. No painkillers or probiotics provided. I did get some CBD oil, as recommended by the LA Guinea Pig rescue's videos. I got a very low dosage (they use 50mg doses at the rescue. Most shops here sell pet formulations at 200mg/500mg/1000mg for cats and dogs. I did find a pet formulation as my local dispensary of pet CBD oil 20mg dose, so I went with that very small dose and just give a drop on each ear 2-3x/day). It definitely seemed to help with the pain, and Deano Beano is becoming more energetic now that we are 5 days out.
Vet recommend 10+ days separation, so I've split the cage to they can still talk and interact, but not get to each other. I made a silly mistake yesterday, and put Deano Beano into Samson's half to see it they would eat hay together. It was an immediate running in a circle at each others butts, followed by some sulking and chattering in hidey spots and general grumpiness and uphappiness. I don't want to risk Deano Beano getting hurt or his stitches tearing. He's not yet eating normally, although his energy isn't too bad. But he's the less dominant pig normally, and I don't want him getting pestered by Samson, or risk having him fight back seriously if he is hurting or grumpy.
Issues/Concerns
Deano Beano isn't eating normally yet.
He was doing a bit better after 3 days. Poops were almost normal looking, but yesterday, he was eating less again, and poops are back to being less frequent and softer. He's not eating hay consistently, and even his fresh veg he is being very selective. He was refusing parsley until a bit today (which is normally his favourite), he'll eat a bit of celery or carrot, and the only thing he'll eat consistently are plain leaves of lettuce. I can interest him in a hay pod, or some pellets sometimes, but not always.
Strain on the pair bond.
I'm a little worried that the separation will put a big strain on their bond, and they will fight when I put them together. I have the ability to split the cage permanently, but they have much more room to move around if the area is connected for longer runs. I wonder if I made a mistake keeping them apart, as the vet recommended. Dean was very poor and in pain for the first day...I'm not sure if Samson would have helped him or just been aggressive.
Plans for advice?
I'm thinking the low / selective appetite is due to the antibiotics. I started yesterday giving some poop soup from Sammy's very big/healthy poops. I'll plan to do this 2x3 times a day for Deano Beano 2 hours before or 1 hour after antibiotics. And maybe one mid-day. (Of course, the only time Sammy doesn't want to lay some big eggs is when I'm there waiting with a collection bowl!)
I'm starting Deano Beano today on a bit more of the recovery formula, in a more watery dose, with some extra vitamin C. I thought we were done with the syringe feeding after the second day, but if he's not eating properly yet, I think I should supplement a bit until his gut and appetite return to normal. I thought a more liquid mix would be easier, as I can use the smaller syringe to feed, and also make sure he gets plenty of water. (He does seem to do drinking and peeing, so that's good. Just not enough fibers going in!) I'm thinking one reason Beano isn't interested in the kale/parsley/green veg is because they are a bit difficult to digest when the tummy isn't doing well.
Any other advise than just a bit more recovery formula and poop soup?
I'm worried about the reintroduction. I was thinking of following the bonding guidelines from the beginning when they are ready to move back in together. Start on neutral ground in their secondary grid enclosure, that I use when I'm cleaning out the bigger space. I normally cover half with a blanket and put it their bed, a double opening hidey, and one or two pods. That's worked fine when I'm doing a clean and they were together. They normally stay there 5-7 hours, so I can do a big clean/wash and dry. They mostly nap. For this reintroduction (when Deano Beano is a bit more healed) Should I take out all the hideys and just put a hay pile in the middle?
I feel like in normal times they run around more crazily when they don't have a hiding space, but maybe they'll need to re-establish their power structure since they haven't been in the same cage for a while? I'm nervous about this, since I haven't had to do a full bonding/re-bonding.
I'm an over-worrier, and likely to overreact to any sign of piggy distress during a bonding process. And also over-worry about a permanent change to Beano's diet/preferences. It's so strange to see him refuse his favourite snacks. Even the Vitamin C Oxbow cookies, which are normally a welcomed treat, get half eaten and then ignored.
Any additional advise on recovery feeding and post-surgery bonding very welcome
Pictures: Normal enclosure (now split in two halves). There is an upstairs "cage" with paper bedding on each side. One pre-op and post-op picture of Deano Beano's cyst / stitches.
Thanks and apologies for the novel!
Some background. My bonded boar pair are rescues from the SPCA and moved into my home at the end of June 2020. They were estimated at 3 years old, but I know from past experience that the SPCA isn't always given accurate information at surrender. Still, they seem like pretty active, adult piggies, with none of the signs of extremely senior pigs. I've made plenty of rookie mistakes since adoption, and am constantly reading more and more, and trying to become a better piggie momma. I'd say it took 2-3 weeks before they were more relaxed being held and less nippy in a cuddle.
Normal cage set up and my pair behaviour
Approx. 6ft x 4ft Run/play space in the middle (fleece lined), with cages on each side that are 3ft x 1.5 ft (paper bedding). I'm been increasing the hidey areas, and doubling everything. My boys, Samson and Deano Beano are pretty happy, although I do see dominance behaviours, but I've never seen wounds or blood from a disagreement.
Samson is the more dominant pig (although Deano is bigger and stronger). Samson is often chasing around Deano and doing his rumble butt until Deano either successfully ignores him, or runs away and chatters. Every now and again, Samson will chase Deano out of a hidey (I have two pods with only one entrance, which normally isn't an issue, but every now and again Sammy is a jerk and will shove in). I've also noticed one or both of the piggies will sometimes sit in front of the water, or food bowl in a power move. They seem to do this regardless of how many options they have, but increasing placement of food and multiple water sources does help. They will often sit and munch hay together from the feeder bag (I now have two, which I will make available going forward). Sometimes there is a "nose-off" at the hay bag or feed bowl, but doesn't generally escalate. I don't see much cuddling between them, unless there is something very stressful going on, but they don't seem to scrap either.
Surgery
Deano Beano had a decent size cyst right of the top of his rump/back. It was checked by the vet and not infected, and we decided to have it surgically removed. I angsted over this a lot, and didn't like the idea of putting him under...since the cyst wasn't infected or seemingly life threatening. Although on hindsight, I'm glad I did, as they cyst went all the way under the muscle layer, and the vet had to so some internal stitching of the muscles. It definitely wasn't going to heal up and go away, and could have introduced infection in the future.
The vet is a guinea pig specialist (actually not Deano Beano's normal vet, who is also a specialist, but she was not available for the initial appointment for several weeks, so we went with their recommendation of another vet in the area who is even more seasoned with piggies).
They sent me home with recovery formula (Oxbow), antibiotics (30mg Enrofloxacin) and some instructions. I have a followup call on Thursday, and will do a week checkup on Nov 14. No painkillers or probiotics provided. I did get some CBD oil, as recommended by the LA Guinea Pig rescue's videos. I got a very low dosage (they use 50mg doses at the rescue. Most shops here sell pet formulations at 200mg/500mg/1000mg for cats and dogs. I did find a pet formulation as my local dispensary of pet CBD oil 20mg dose, so I went with that very small dose and just give a drop on each ear 2-3x/day). It definitely seemed to help with the pain, and Deano Beano is becoming more energetic now that we are 5 days out.
Vet recommend 10+ days separation, so I've split the cage to they can still talk and interact, but not get to each other. I made a silly mistake yesterday, and put Deano Beano into Samson's half to see it they would eat hay together. It was an immediate running in a circle at each others butts, followed by some sulking and chattering in hidey spots and general grumpiness and uphappiness. I don't want to risk Deano Beano getting hurt or his stitches tearing. He's not yet eating normally, although his energy isn't too bad. But he's the less dominant pig normally, and I don't want him getting pestered by Samson, or risk having him fight back seriously if he is hurting or grumpy.
Issues/Concerns
Deano Beano isn't eating normally yet.
He was doing a bit better after 3 days. Poops were almost normal looking, but yesterday, he was eating less again, and poops are back to being less frequent and softer. He's not eating hay consistently, and even his fresh veg he is being very selective. He was refusing parsley until a bit today (which is normally his favourite), he'll eat a bit of celery or carrot, and the only thing he'll eat consistently are plain leaves of lettuce. I can interest him in a hay pod, or some pellets sometimes, but not always.
Strain on the pair bond.
I'm a little worried that the separation will put a big strain on their bond, and they will fight when I put them together. I have the ability to split the cage permanently, but they have much more room to move around if the area is connected for longer runs. I wonder if I made a mistake keeping them apart, as the vet recommended. Dean was very poor and in pain for the first day...I'm not sure if Samson would have helped him or just been aggressive.
Plans for advice?
I'm thinking the low / selective appetite is due to the antibiotics. I started yesterday giving some poop soup from Sammy's very big/healthy poops. I'll plan to do this 2x3 times a day for Deano Beano 2 hours before or 1 hour after antibiotics. And maybe one mid-day. (Of course, the only time Sammy doesn't want to lay some big eggs is when I'm there waiting with a collection bowl!)
I'm starting Deano Beano today on a bit more of the recovery formula, in a more watery dose, with some extra vitamin C. I thought we were done with the syringe feeding after the second day, but if he's not eating properly yet, I think I should supplement a bit until his gut and appetite return to normal. I thought a more liquid mix would be easier, as I can use the smaller syringe to feed, and also make sure he gets plenty of water. (He does seem to do drinking and peeing, so that's good. Just not enough fibers going in!) I'm thinking one reason Beano isn't interested in the kale/parsley/green veg is because they are a bit difficult to digest when the tummy isn't doing well.
Any other advise than just a bit more recovery formula and poop soup?
I'm worried about the reintroduction. I was thinking of following the bonding guidelines from the beginning when they are ready to move back in together. Start on neutral ground in their secondary grid enclosure, that I use when I'm cleaning out the bigger space. I normally cover half with a blanket and put it their bed, a double opening hidey, and one or two pods. That's worked fine when I'm doing a clean and they were together. They normally stay there 5-7 hours, so I can do a big clean/wash and dry. They mostly nap. For this reintroduction (when Deano Beano is a bit more healed) Should I take out all the hideys and just put a hay pile in the middle?
I feel like in normal times they run around more crazily when they don't have a hiding space, but maybe they'll need to re-establish their power structure since they haven't been in the same cage for a while? I'm nervous about this, since I haven't had to do a full bonding/re-bonding.
I'm an over-worrier, and likely to overreact to any sign of piggy distress during a bonding process. And also over-worry about a permanent change to Beano's diet/preferences. It's so strange to see him refuse his favourite snacks. Even the Vitamin C Oxbow cookies, which are normally a welcomed treat, get half eaten and then ignored.
Any additional advise on recovery feeding and post-surgery bonding very welcome
Pictures: Normal enclosure (now split in two halves). There is an upstairs "cage" with paper bedding on each side. One pre-op and post-op picture of Deano Beano's cyst / stitches.
Thanks and apologies for the novel!
