Suspected diabetes

[Maddykins]

Hello, just looking for some advice and perhaps other people's experiences. My boy is about 5 and a half/6 years old but he is a rescue so that's just an estimate. I took him to the vet a few days ago because he hurt his eye with some hay, and when my partner was inspecting his eye before we took him to the vets, he thought he could see cataracts (my partner is a healthcare professional). The vet confirmed he has some mild cataracts in both of his eyes. She said that this could sometimes be a sign of diabetes, and I told her that we had considered that he may have that as for the last year he has been drinking A LOT, and in the last few months even more noticeably so! I told her we assumed it was age-related and that there wouldn't be anything they could do about it - she was honest and said she didn't know and she had never treat a guinea pig for diabetes before, she got a textbook out and showed me and there was only a few lines that said that sometimes guinea pigs get it, and they sometimes go into spontaenous remission, and that was about it. So I figured that was that.

However I have since done some Googling and seen on Guinea Lynx that some people have had their guinea pigs treated for diabetes, can anyone share their experiences? My partner has also noticed that my boy's poos are often more dry and crumbly than they used to be and he thinks that, combined with the huge amount of drinking, along with his age, and some weight loss, could indicate kidney failure. He is his usual bright, noisy, happy self and eating normally.

Our previous vet was an exotics specialist and amazing however he is on an indefinite, potentially permanent career break I don't know whether to go back to the vets that I went to the other day (just the closest one) and ask for testing/medication/whatever you guys recommend or to try and find a vet that is more experienced with this? Any thoughts/recommendations would be appreciated.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi!

In most cases (but the most severe) diet can sort the problem and diabetes will subside in a matter of a few months without any medication.
You can find tips for diabetic piggies in our special diets chapter: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

Diabetes symptoms are usually a sudden and sustained marked increase of water intake together with weight loss, after kidney problems (which can present with the same symptoms) have been excluded. Higher than normal glucose levels are usually tested in a blood sample (not easily obtained in guinea pigs) because they have naturally high levels of glucose in their blood.
There has been a fad some years ago when it became a bit more generally known that guinea pigs can have diabetes and many general vets were thrown by the urine results. Diabetes in guinea pigs can occur but it is not all that common.

@Claire W has a diabetic piggy in remission.

 

[Claire W]

My Ellen was diagnosed with mild diabetes at just 6 months old. She was drinking a lot of water and losing weight rather than gaining it. A urine sample showed levels of glucose in her urine so I took her to the vets.

My vet gave her a simple blood test by cutting a nail too short, not nice but the quickest and safest way. Some vets prefer a quick pin prick behind the ear. When tested, this showed very high levels of glucose in the blood so with that along side the urine sample and her other symptoms, diabetes was diagnosed.

With careful discussions with my vet, we changed her diet feeding a minimal amount of pellets and plenty of hay (which we were doing anyway) and removed fruit including tomatoes and any high sugar / carbohydrate veg from her diet. I’m also careful with what forage mixes she eats. She was living 3 other guinea pigs at the time but my vet said it wouldn’t them all to be on the same diet to make it easier as I didn’t want to feed Ellen separately. I just treated the others when she wasn’t looking.

Within a month, her symptoms had died down, she wasn’t drinking so much water and she was gaining weight. My vet tested her urine again and there was no glucose present she put her in to remission.

Ellen is now 3 years and 8 months old and hasn’t had anymore problems. We’re jusy careful with what we feed her. Her diet consists of 1/8th cupful of pellets, hay, cucumber, peppers, green beans, lettuce (not iceberg) and coriander. She does occasionally get a treat veg.

Please don’t look at google. I did that and scared myself to death. My vet explained that guinea pigs are only treated with insulin in very severe cases which is very very rare in guinea pigs.

The first thing to do is have her urine tested for the presence of glucose but please don’t let your vet diagnose diabetes by that alone as my Edward sometimes has glucose in his urine which my vet has explained can sometimes happen in guinea pigs. Only if there is glucose present should a blood test be followed up but my vet has never done that with Edward as he doesn’t show any other symptoms and like Wiebke has mentioned, diabetes in guinea pigs is rare especially severe diabetes

 

[Maddykins]

Thanks both. The thing is though, I'm struggling to see the point in asking the vet to test him for diabetes if it's going to just be a case of changing his diet. I mean, I can do that without subjecting him to the testing anyway, so is there any point? I think he has a pretty decent diet - unlimited hay, and one cup of veg/fruit split into half a cup in the morning, half a cup in the evening which is mostly veg, he only gets a bit of fruit once a week or even less depending on what we have in, and only gets manufactured guinea pig treats maybe once a month or so and only a tiny amount. He has roughly 8-12 Science Selective pellets each morning and again in the evening, is that too many?

I will have a read of the diet link and happy to improve his diet as it will do no harm and I will be able to see whether he stops drinking as much once I change it and that would give me some idea of whether it may be diabetes or something else. How long on a special diet before you tend to see results?

Regarding ruling out the kidney failure, as I say, my partner is a healthcare professional and he suspects that it could be that. Is there a test the vet can run to check? Our other boy ended up being put to sleep in April after he got seriously ill for a good 6 weeks or so with dental problems but turned out he almost certainly had underlying kidney failure too which is why the vet recommended putting him to sleep, so it is scary that my other boy may have it now too

 

[pig in the city]

Kidney failure is very common in older piggies sadly, as it is with many animals and humans. Unfortunately there is no treatment. In my experience they tend to just get thinner and graduaĺly fade away, but they seem well.
Some thing maybe worth doing is getting the vet to feel his thyroid gland as if it's enlarged it may suggest thyroid disease. This can cause similar symptoms and is treatable.

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks both. The thing is though, I'm struggling to see the point in asking the vet to test him for diabetes if it's going to just be a case of changing his diet. I mean, I can do that without subjecting him to the testing anyway, so is there any point? I think he has a pretty decent diet - unlimited hay, and one cup of veg/fruit split into half a cup in the morning, half a cup in the evening which is mostly veg, he only gets a bit of fruit once a week or even less depending on what we have in, and only gets manufactured guinea pig treats maybe once a month or so and only a tiny amount. He has roughly 8-12 Science Selective pellets each morning and again in the evening, is that too many?

I will have a read of the diet link and happy to improve his diet as it will do no harm and I will be able to see whether he stops drinking as much once I change it and that would give me some idea of whether it may be diabetes or something else. How long on a special diet before you tend to see results?

Regarding ruling out the kidney failure, as I say, my partner is a healthcare professional and he suspects that it could be that. Is there a test the vet can run to check? Our other boy ended up being put to sleep in April after he got seriously ill for a good 6 weeks or so with dental problems but turned out he almost certainly had underlying kidney failure too which is why the vet recommended putting him to sleep, so it is scary that my other boy may have it now too

Only a vet can diagnose kidney failure, which is one of the more common problems and causes of death in older piggies, going by my own long term experience. I currently have a seven year old with this problem and am braced to have her pts whenever her quality of life has gone.
Small pets with a very fast metabolism have sadly much shorter lives and need to die from something - organ failure being the most common cause in otherwise healthy old piggies and humans. You very often end up with a cluster of particular health problems and illnesses as they are not quite evenly spread. Sadly there is nothing your vet can do to prevent kidney failure; any expensive tests and medication can buy you at the best a few more weeks but don't make the end any easier on you or your piggy.

I am very sorry; the realisation that a beloved one may be on borrowed time is always one of the worst moments. If I were you, I'd have your piggy vet checked.

There is one huge redeeming grace in being aware that you are on the ticker: You can do and say everything that needs doing and saying and live the remaining period much more consciously. It is a bitter-sweet time, but when used to the best, also a very fulfilling experience. Love transcends time; you can fill a small moment with a lifetime's worth of love, you know!

 

[Maddykins]

Thanks for the heads-up about the thyroid thing too.

Do you think I should go back to see the vet I saw before and raise this stuff with her and ask for her to test my boy, or should I try and find a more piggy-savvy vet? I'm gutted about my previous vet no longer working as a vet, he was really amazing!

Is there a test for kidney failure that I can ask the vet for, or is it just diagnosed based on symptoms?

My boy is a good age and has a good quality of life and to be honest I'd much rather him have something like kidney failure which I couldn't prevent and have him enjoy his life as much as possible and then have to put him peacefully to sleep than watch him suffer awfully like my other boy did when we nursed him intensively for about 6 weeks when he had awful dental problems before we realised what the underlying problem was and had to put him to sleep anyway, that was really awful and gutting

In your opinion do you think we should keep looking for a friend for him or just leave it now? The girl we got didn't get on with him and we are waiting for the rescue to rehome her, apparently they have found a local home for her so I am just waiting for them to update me on when we will take her to her new home or they will come and get her. I have been looking for a local female for him to be friends with since about May with no luck and I'm not going to try and get one from further afield after this experience as we can't afford the time to have to travel far if it doesn't work out a second time. I'm just not sure whether the upheaval and possible stress is worth it for him now when he seems happy being on his own (his behaviour is the same as when he lived with his brother)? Especially if he is old and probably a bit unwell, as we're unsure whether we would want more guinea pigs after he passes (if is a solo pig then we probably wouldn't get anymore at least not for a few years til our daughter gets a bit older, she's only 5 months). I think he is happy now but I don't want to deprive him of a friend if it could benefit him, and I'm also aware that when I go back to work after in March he will be completely on his own for very long periods of time Mon-Thurs whereas at the moment I am home quite a lot to keep him company.

 

[pig in the city]

Thanks for the heads-up about the thyroid thing too.

Do you think I should go back to see the vet I saw before and raise this stuff with her and ask for her to test my boy, or should I try and find a more piggy-savvy vet? I'm gutted about my previous vet no longer working as a vet, he was really amazing!

Is there a test for kidney failure that I can ask the vet for, or is it just diagnosed based on symptoms?

My boy is a good age and has a good quality of life and to be honest I'd much rather him have something like kidney failure which I couldn't prevent and have him enjoy his life as much as possible and then have to put him peacefully to sleep than watch him suffer awfully like my other boy did when we nursed him intensively for about 6 weeks when he had awful dental problems before we realised what the underlying problem was and had to put him to sleep anyway, that was really awful and gutting

In your opinion do you think we should keep looking for a friend for him or just leave it now? The girl we got didn't get on with him and we are waiting for the rescue to rehome her, apparently they have found a local home for her so I am just waiting for them to update me on when we will take her to her new home or they will come and get her. I have been looking for a local female for him to be friends with since about May with no luck and I'm not going to try and get one from further afield after this experience as we can't afford the time to have to travel far if it doesn't work out a second time. I'm just not sure whether the upheaval and possible stress is worth it for him now when he seems happy being on his own (his behaviour is the same as when he lived with his brother)? Especially if he is old and probably a bit unwell, as we're unsure whether we would want more guinea pigs after he passes (if is a solo pig then we probably wouldn't get anymore at least not for a few years til our daughter gets a bit older, she's only 5 months). I think he is happy now but I don't want to deprive him of a friend if it could benefit him, and I'm also aware that when I go back to work after in March he will be completely on his own for very long periods of time Mon-Thurs whereas at the moment I am home quite a lot to keep him company.

It's tricky deciding in these circumstances as to the best thing to do. I think getting a prognosis from a vet would help you decide about whether or not to look for another friend for him.
There is a blood test for kidney failure but collecting a sample can be tricky. Some vets collect a sample from cutting a nail into the quick. Sounds painful but less risky than accessing a vein.