Suspected liquid bloat and vets visit

[ThePiggyPalace]

Hello,

I am visiting the vets today with my old boy, who is six.

He's not eating apart from being syringed by me, and is drinking very little, mostly when I syringe or offer him the bottle. When I pick him up, his belly sounds like a hot water bottle. I suspect it could be liquid bloat, which is terrifying.

He's much more quieter than his usual self and when he's in his pen, he's very subdued. He sits with his fur puffed and eyes half open.

When I bring him out for cuddles, he perks up a bit, but lets out a bit of a cry when I pick him up aand still isn't his usual lively self, but is a bit more inquisitive.

His poos are so infrequent and I haven't noticed any wee. His poos are more round than pellet-like. He's usually doing both lots of weeing and pooing.

I don't know what the vet will suggest, but I'm really against any surgery because of his age and frailty. The past few days, his quality of life has gone down massively. I really don't want him to suffer, but don't want him to be put to sleep unnecessarily, especially when he perks up from time to time. I just know he's not the same old boy he was a few days ago. He's lost his zest for life.

Please can anyone tell me what to expect from the vet visit? Are they likely to tell me off for not bringing him in earlier because he's lost his muscle mass due to age? He's also got a few lumps and bumps, which I know are normal for older piggies and they've never once bothered him. He's always been the centre of the party, a real party animal until now. I can't stop crying at how unwell he is.

 

[Wiebke]

Hello,

I am visiting the vets today with my old boy, who is six.

He's not eating apart from being syringed by me, and is drinking very little, mostly when I syringe or offer him the bottle. When I pick him up, his belly sounds like a hot water bottle. I suspect it could be liquid bloat, which is terrifying.

He's much more quieter than his usual self and when he's in his pen, he's very subdued. He sits with his fur puffed and eyes half open.

When I bring him out for cuddles, he perks up a bit, but lets out a bit of a cry when I pick him up aand still isn't his usual lively self, but is a bit more inquisitive.

His poos are so infrequent and I haven't noticed any wee. His poos are more round than pellet-like. He's usually doing both lots of weeing and pooing.

I don't know what the vet will suggest, but I'm really against any surgery because of his age and frailty. The past few days, his quality of life has gone down massively. I really don't want him to suffer, but don't want him to be put to sleep unnecessarily, especially when he perks up from time to time. I just know he's not the same old boy he was a few days ago. He's lost his zest for life.

Please can anyone tell me what to expect from the vet visit? Are they likely to tell me off for not bringing him in earlier because he's lost his muscle mass due to age? He's also got a few lumps and bumps, which I know are normal for older piggies and they've never once bothered him. He's always been the centre of the party, a real party animal until now. I can't stop crying at how unwell he is.

Hi

BIG HUGS

No, vets are not going to lose valuable consultation time by raking customers down about waiting with brining their piggies in. Especially as you have been clearly caring for him and you are clearly loving him.

Please be aware that the liquid you hear may be a fluid build up in the body cavity due to heart failure. We do no longer talk about 'liquid bloat' anymore; things have moved on a bit.
Here is an overview over any potential issues: Wiebke's Guide to Tummy Trouble

What you may have to brace yourself for is that there is not necessarily a last minute magic medical wand solution. Vets can do a lot more these days, especially in terms of diagnosis, but once the body has started to close down, they cannot reverse that process. It is however always your own decision - and in sedation, operation and end of life cases not rarely an owner's burden - as to which procedures you want to be done and how far you want to take your boy. As long as you are making any decisions with your boy's wellfare before your own fears and heartaches in mind, you are not going wrong.

He is much loved and has been well looked after to get to the age he is. What none of us has any control about is when the much faster metabolism that guinea pigs have is turning against them and in which way this happens. We can sadly never choose the way, the time and the circumstances. Be strong for him, whatever happens.

My thoughts are with both you.

 

[ThePiggyPalace]

Hello @Wiebke,

Many thanks for your kind reply.

Bill pig went to the vets. The vet was so lovely. She had a through look at him and took him away for scans. His lump may be just a fatty lump. She was totally respectful of my choice for him not to have surgery.

He's come away with critical care and 0.4ml of meloxaid.

I do still think it may be liquid bloat.

He had injections for dehydration yesterday and when he got home he seemed to perk up. We both had a sleep together until early evening and he seemed OK then. That was following his dose of meloxaid and two lots of critical care.

This morning he's very subdued. Obviously a very poorly boy. I can't believe how he's changed from being such an active, happy piggy to this in such a short time. Seeing him like this really breaks my heart. His quality of life isn't really there anymore. The fun in his life has disappeared and he's simply living because he has to, rather than living for each day with all the fun it brings. He hates having his critial care and medication syringed to him. I am very much thinking of helping my boy to the rainbow bridge (via the vets). He doesn't deserve to be in pain. I'm just terrified that this is a temporary illness and he could recover. Given his age though, I don't know. I want him to die knowing he had a good life too. Not a miserable, painful life at the end of his days. I'm so torn.

 

[Wiebke]

Hello @Wiebke,

Many thanks for your kind reply.

Bill pig went to the vets. The vet was so lovely. She had a through look at him and took him away for scans. His lump may be just a fatty lump. She was totally respectful of my choice for him not to have surgery.

He's come away with critical care and 0.4ml of meloxaid.

I do still think it may be liquid bloat.

He had injections for dehydration yesterday and when he got home he seemed to perk up. We both had a sleep together until early evening and he seemed OK then. That was following his dose of meloxaid and two lots of critical care.

This morning he's very subdued. Obviously a very poorly boy. I can't believe how he's changed from being such an active, happy piggy to this in such a short time. Seeing him like this really breaks my heart. His quality of life isn't really there anymore. The fun in his life has disappeared and he's simply living because he has to, rather than living for each day with all the fun it brings. He hates having his critial care and medication syringed to him. I am very much thinking of helping my boy to the rainbow bridge (via the vets). He doesn't deserve to be in pain. I'm just terrified that this is a temporary illness and he could recover. Given his age though, I don't know. I want him to die knowing he had a good life too. Not a miserable, painful life at the end of his days. I'm so torn.

Hi

BIG HUGS

I am very sorry that the perking up has only been very temporary.

What has the vet said about the scans and any liquid build up whether that is in the lungs, the chest, the body or - as you suspect - in the gut? In whichever part of the body it happens, it would have shown up on any scan.

It is never easy for any loving owner when the situation is not quite clear cut and circumstances kind of make it inevitable. Unfortunately, you as the owner are the only one who can make that decision - it is your right but the responsibility can also become a heavy burden when you are totally torn between your love and your desire to get it right for your beloved. But you are well within in what I call the 'grey zone' where there is no right or wrong but a personal variation in weighing up all the factors in play.

You may want to read the chapter relevant chapter about 'When is the right time to say goodbye?' in the section about terminal illness where I have laid out all concerns playing into your decision. Think about how you feel about each aspect in order to work out where you stand, so you can make any decision with a hopefully clearer head if not a less aching heart - because each piggy and each bond is unique. It will also hopefully help you through the inievitable soul-searching that comes with the loss of a beloved pet.
Right now you are additionally grappling with the shock of the realisations that against any hope of yours, your poorly boy is being unlikely to make it and that you will have to make the dreaded decision for him. That usually comes with the huge emotional upset and the feeling torn or even paralysed by the contradictory feelings you are experiencing in the face of having to make any decisions for a loved one that you cannot unmake. The guide link below tries to help you find a way through this emotional thicket so you are able to make any decisions that are right for both you and your piggy - it's something that is different every time because every bond and every situation is different.
Here is the link: A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs

My thoughts are with you.

 

[ThePiggyPalace]

Hello @Wiebke,

Bill is still with us and has been having his Critical Care (with much protest), his Meloxaid and poop soup from one of his healthy brothers (there are four brothers poops to chose from).

The vet said that the scan was very difficult to see anything in his stomach or gut because of his mass, which the vet took a sample of, and it's come back as a fatty lump and not cancerous, which is just brilliant news.

I was all ready to take him to the vets yesterday for help crossing the rainbow bridge, as he had spent the night and morning being very subdued. It's so difficult to see him like this as he's the life and the soul of the party usually. He then perked up a few hours before his appointment and was trying to get down to play on the rug (his favourite thing to do), and although still noy himself, he was half-heartedly headbutting his castle (plastic pigloo). He also showed interest in broccoli and he hadn't willingly eaten since Monday apart from very little hay. I only let him have a tiny bit of broccoli as I know that can interfere with his health issues right now. I was just so glad he was willingly eating something.

I took him to bed with me yesterday. He loves to go under the covers and he did his first wee in days. On my bed, on my sheets, but I was so pleased he weed. He's done a few more big wees since then.

His poos are very few and far between and when they do come out they are very dry and are either extremely thin and short and not the usual shape. More like a blade of grass size and shape, or bigger and rounder, but still very dry. I spoke to the vet yesterday and asked if the Critical Care will help his bowel movements become more regular and she said it would.

I still think he could have liquid bloat from what I heard going on inside of him earlier in the week, which has now stopped apart from the odd gurgle, or gut stasis. I'm concerned that he isn't on any medication for either of these conditions, if any medication exists. Surgery isn't an option as he's so frail, but as the vet couldn't see on the scan I don't know what to do next, other than hope and pray the medication, poop soup and Critical Care works it's magic. If he's still like this on Monday, I will have to make a very difficult decision. I just don't know how long it might take for the Critical Care to work it's magic. Perhaps I am hoping for a miracle.

 

[Wiebke]

Hello @Wiebke,

Bill is still with us and has been having his Critical Care (with much protest), his Meloxaid and poop soup from one of his healthy brothers (there are four brothers poops to chose from).

The vet said that the scan was very difficult to see anything in his stomach or gut because of his mass, which the vet took a sample of, and it's come back as a fatty lump and not cancerous, which is just brilliant news.

I was all ready to take him to the vets yesterday for help crossing the rainbow bridge, as he had spent the night and morning being very subdued. It's so difficult to see him like this as he's the life and the soul of the party usually. He then perked up a few hours before his appointment and was trying to get down to play on the rug (his favourite thing to do), and although still noy himself, he was half-heartedly headbutting his castle (plastic pigloo). He also showed interest in broccoli and he hadn't willingly eaten since Monday apart from very little hay. I only let him have a tiny bit of broccoli as I know that can interfere with his health issues right now. I was just so glad he was willingly eating something.

I took him to bed with me yesterday. He loves to go under the covers and he did his first wee in days. On my bed, on my sheets, but I was so pleased he weed. He's done a few more big wees since then.

His poos are very few and far between and when they do come out they are very dry and are either extremely thin and short and not the usual shape. More like a blade of grass size and shape, or bigger and rounder, but still very dry. I spoke to the vet yesterday and asked if the Critical Care will help his bowel movements become more regular and she said it would.

I still think he could have liquid bloat from what I heard going on inside of him earlier in the week, which has now stopped apart from the odd gurgle, or gut stasis. I'm concerned that he isn't on any medication for either of these conditions, if any medication exists. Surgery isn't an option as he's so frail, but as the vet couldn't see on the scan I don't know what to do next, other than hope and pray the medication, poop soup and Critical Care works it's magic. If he's still like this on Monday, I will have to make a very difficult decision. I just don't know how long it might take for the Critical Care to work it's magic. Perhaps I am hoping for a miracle.

Hi

Great that Bill has perked up again a bit.

Please remind yourself that the poo output is running a day or two behind the intake. Are you offering him extra water by syringe when feeding? Just as much as he is willing to take whenever the chewing is getting drier; about every 3-5 syringefuls, depening on how loose or dry your mix is.

How much feed are you getting into him?

Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

 

[weepweeps]

Sending healing vibes to Bill and hugs to you. I hope he perks up soon

 

[ThePiggyPalace]

Thank you both for your kind replies.

Bill is very lethargic today and is breathing really heavy at the moment.

I think it's time to say goodbye, although I'm terrified incase he might get better. I went to kiss him before and usually he'd move his nose away as he doesn't like his nose kissed. He didn't have the strength this time. I'm terrified of taking him for euthanasia incase he gets better with his Critical Care over the next few days.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you both for your kind replies.

Bill is very lethargic today and is breathing really heavy at the moment.

I think it's time to say goodbye, although I'm terrified incase he might get better. I went to kiss him before and usually he'd move his nose away as he doesn't like his nose kissed. He didn't have the strength this time. I'm terrified of taking him for euthanasia incase he gets better with his Critical Care over the next few days.

Go with your gut feeling; it picks up better on the relevant things than your head. Personally, I think if your round the clock feeding care would have been enough to bring him round you should have seen some signs of improvement and he wouldn't have remained so apathetic and sadly continued to gradually lose strength despite you doing the best you can. You can make that decision with inner surety that you really have tried your very best and you have seen a vet; you have done all the right things any good owner should. You haven't failed Bill in any way because whatever is going on is clearly not in your control.
But I am ever so sorry that after the initial good news after your vet trip things haven't picked up; that makes it all so much more gut-wrenching.

BIG HUGS

Bill and you are in my thoughts in this truly heart-breaking time, whichever way you decide.

PS: This guide here may also help you when you are wrangling with the question of pts or not in order to work out where you truly stand and to help you make whichever decision feels more right for you with more clarity. It is an owner's privilege but often rather a huge emotional burden to be the only one to call the shots in any situation that is not taken out of your hands and where there are no guarantees for the outcomes either way.
Operation or Terminal Care/Euthanasia? - Helpful Questions to Ask Ahead or in Hindsight

 

[ThePiggyPalace]

Hi @Wiebke. Today I made the decision to let Bill go to the rainbow bridge. He was so sleepy and at one point didn't have the strength to lift his head. His dignity, which he had for all of his life until now, was gone with me feeding him by syringe and him fighting it and me cleaning his bum with wet wipes, which I didn't mind doing at all, it was an honour to help him in his final days. He's always been a very clean boy, forever washing himself, especially washing his face with his little paws after his meals. I hope Bill knew how much I loved him.

 

[piggieminder]

Sending you my best wishes at a very difficult time for you.
Bill will definitely know how much you loved him, he was so lucky to have such a caring owner.
Take care of your self as you grieve for your special boy.

 

[ThePiggyPalace]

Thank you very much @piggieminder

 

[weepweeps]

I’m so sorry you had to make this difficult decision. Under these circumstances I would have come to the same conclusion. Not that that will help you now. Sending you massive hugs. Bill knew he was loved every day he was with you and that’s what matters.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi @Wiebke. Today I made the decision to let Bill go to the rainbow bridge. He was so sleepy and at one point didn't have the strength to lift his head. His dignity, which he had for all of his life until now, was gone with me feeding him by syringe and him fighting it and me cleaning his bum with wet wipes, which I didn't mind doing at all, it was an honour to help him in his final days. He's always been a very clean boy, forever washing himself, especially washing his face with his little paws after his meals. I hope Bill knew how much I loved him.

BIG HUGS

If it helps you, it is the decision I would have made as well in your shoes and have made for piggies of mine - always with a very heart. You have not failed him in any way, least in your love - I am sure that Bill will have been carried to the Rainbow Bridge by the wings of your love as he made his final journey.

Be kind with yourself in the coming days and try not to getting stuck in a pernicious guilt/what if mind loop. When and in which form the end comes is always out of our control. All we can do is our best with our piggies' welfare upmost in mind. You have done that.

He will always have his forever place in your heart where his precious memories will remain and he will be available for virtual cuddles when you need one the most.

Human Bereavement: Grieving, Processing and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

 

[Gem789]

I'm so sorry xx

 

[exia]

I'm so sorry for your loss you did a great job caring for your lovely Bill. Its so hard to make that terrible decision, but I'm sure Bill know he was a very loved gentleman. Sleep tight, Bill