Symptoms of back teeth issues, or diabetes ?

[oxtinamona]

Hi all,

One of my boys doesn’t seem himself ...we are taking him to the vet first thing in the morning tomorrow of course ... but just wanted to see what you think based on your experience...over last couple of weeks he’s been throwing his weight about and been a bit more snappy/overly dominant with Momoko his pig-wife...he appeared bright and eating and drinking as per usual, just bit more ‘ snappy ‘ with her... then I’ve noticed he got a bit thinner( although he was always a petite pig always around 900g, he never get proper nutrition before we adopted him at nearly 1 year old, so was always a smaller pig) ... he has always been very keen on water and he drank the most of our pigs, but this never caused any issues. Although lately I have been wondering if it’s diabetes perhaps? He was eating ok, doing his usual cage inspections & rumbling Momoko as telling her off when she tried to Nick his food but yesterday he appeared a bit more ... subdued I guess ? So we kept an eye on him
And I syringe fed him, which he literally almost inhaled - he was starving evidently and had 1.5 syringe full of critical care food. He has never stopped eating may I add.. he just got a bit pickier if that makes sense but still shows interest in food the minute he hears us preparing it etc... he comes over for treats etc...
however I’ve noticed that perhaps harder foods he is more selective with if that makes sense ?
He also hasn’t been eating much hay yesterday and overnight ... we gave him readigrass he loves and he dove in but I noticed he is eating a bit slower ...? Perhaps it’s just my imagination as it’s easily to be subjective . He also has intermittently watering eye 👁 on one side ... so now I’m wondering is it his back teeth playing up? Front teeth look absolutely ok. I did think he may be diabetic as he’s so petite and he always drank tons of water ... he always loved water ... but did anyone have any experiences with back teeth issues ?

 

[oxtinamona]

I forgot to add that I saw him chew on his wooden hay rack and access ramp to the loft on last few days, which is new ...

 

[Bill & Ted]

I would start weighing him daily to see if he is actually losing weight. The vet should check his back teeth for spurs. dental piggies often start to choose softer food and avoid eating hay when they feel pain around their teeth and gums.
typical actions of dental piggies:

Dropping food out of their mouth
Moving their heads to juggle food in their mouths
Avoiding hard food and hay
Gagging on food
Weight loss, unable to eat although keen to eat at first, then loose interest

Step in with syringe feeding if he is loosing weight, hope you can get to the root of his problem

 

[oxtinamona]

I would start weighing him daily to see if he is actually losing weight. The vet should check his back teeth for spurs. dental piggies often start to choose softer food and avoid eating hay when they feel pain around their teeth and gums.
typical actions of dental piggies:

Dropping food out of their mouth
Moving their heads to juggle food in their mouths
Avoiding hard food and hay
Gagging on food
Weight loss, unable to eat although keen to eat at first, then loose interest

Step in with syringe feeding if he is loosing weight, hope you can get to the root of his problem

He’s lost approx 60g in 2-3 weeks so I’m guessing whatever it is it’s progressing... we have syringe fed him since yesterday PM, he has been very keen on syringe feed. We gave him some grass today and he was interested and tried eating some, but soon lost interest ... I’m only assuming it’s because it’s causes him pain. He’s sitting up in his cage in one spot and not Moving too much today I checked him for lumps all over his body but there aren’t any. I can only guess it’s the teeth. I cannot think of anything else. Bless his heart, vet first thing in the morning.

 

[oxtinamona]

I would start weighing him daily to see if he is actually losing weight. The vet should check his back teeth for spurs. dental piggies often start to choose softer food and avoid eating hay when they feel pain around their teeth and gums.
typical actions of dental piggies:

Dropping food out of their mouth
Moving their heads to juggle food in their mouths
Avoiding hard food and hay
Gagging on food
Weight loss, unable to eat although keen to eat at first, then loose interest

Step in with syringe feeding if he is loosing weight, hope you can get to the root of his problem

What exactly causes spurs on the back teeth?

 

[Lorcan]

What exactly causes spurs on the back teeth?

I think a good part of it is genetics. Overbreeding, inbreeding (scarily easy to accidentally let happen, too, never mind the deliberate attempts). Hay and grass contain the silica guinea pigs need to wear their teeth down and avoid spurs, but it's not always a done deal. Comet loved his hay above all else and was known for abandoning the yummy fresh food in order to go back to his hay...he still ended up with spurs.

 

[oxtinamona]

I think a good part of it is genetics. Overbreeding, inbreeding (scarily easy to accidentally let happen, too, never mind the deliberate attempts). Hay and grass contain the silica guinea pigs need to wear their teeth down and avoid spurs, but it's not always a done deal. Comet loved his hay above all else and was known for abandoning the yummy fresh food in order to go back to his hay...he still ended up with spurs.

He always ate tons of hay, but he was rescued from a place where he didn’t get the right food... he always had hay in a reacue, but not sure about before... seems we can’t win with genetics sadly I hope vet will have good news for me and that it’s treatable

 

[Bill & Ted]

My Ted has a doggy pre molar that grows spurs that grow out across into his gum and over towards the tongue. A spur is a sharp point on the tooth that stops the teeth moving over and against each other properly, this will stop a piggie eating properly. The longer the spur the more the jaws become out of line and don’t move easily over each other and keep worn down. They can cause sore gums, cheeks and tongue.
There are all manner of reasons why spurs happen, illness, in-breeding, injury, broken teeth, abscesses and reasons that are unknown to us.

 

[oxtinamona]

My Ted has a doggy pre molar that grows spurs that grow out across into his gum and over towards the tongue. A spur is a sharp point on the tooth that stops the teeth moving over and against each other properly, this will stop a piggie eating properly. The longer the spur the more the jaws become out of line and don’t move easily over each other and keep worn down. They can cause sore gums, cheeks and tongue.
There are all manner of reasons why spurs happen, illness, in-breeding, injury, broken teeth, abscesses and reasons that are unknown to us.

If this is what it is, is it easy to rectify ? Will a dental procedure be fairly straightforward ? I’ve had loads of pigs over the years and was fortunate enough not to have any with dental issues... mind you had cancer pigs etc so it is just matter of genetic lottery I gather breaks my heart to see his usual perky self so quiet and poorly

 

[Lorcan]

Comet's was easy enough, a small whiff of gas and they were filed while he was under. Someone else was kind enough to keep an eye on him overnight (because I couldn't) but apparently he was his usual self very quickly.
Simon Maddock at the Cat and Rabbit Clinic is the best vet for dentals in the country, though, and he has a massive success rate without any use of anaesthetics, since those are the biggest risk.

 

[Bill & Ted]

Sadly it very much depends on how experienced your vet is at dental procedures with Guinea Pigs (not cats and dogs or rabbits) because piggies have sloping teeth and if they are not done perfectly then the pig will not eat properly or at all sometimes.
I go, along with many others from all over the UK to see Simon Maddock at the Cat and Rabbit Clinic In Northampton. He can do conscious dentals that take about 10 minutes, he’s very reasonably priced and he does the job properly. He does around 20 conscious dentals a week and is probably the most skilled dental vet for piggies in the country. I had a disastrous dental first from a local vet under GA which made Ted worse than ever. After finding out about Simon we take Ted and his brother about every 3 months for a tidy up and he’s been absolutely fine since last July.
I would recommend you go there if you can he’s amazing with dental piggies

 

[oxtinamona]

Sadly it very much depends on how experienced your vet is at dental procedures with Guinea Pigs (not cats and dogs or rabbits) because piggies have sloping teeth and if they are not done perfectly then the pig will not eat properly or at all sometimes.
I go, along with many others from all over the UK to see Simon Maddock at the Cat and Rabbit Clinic In Northampton. He can do conscious dentals that take about 10 minutes, he’s very reasonably priced and he does the job properly. He does around 20 conscious dentals a week and is probably the most skilled dental vet for piggies in the country. I had a disastrous dental first from a local vet under GA which made Ted worse than ever. After finding out about Simon we take Ted and his brother about every 3 months for a tidy up and he’s been absolutely fine since last July.
I would recommend you go there if you can he’s amazing with dental piggies

We are in Norfolk so can’t make it to see Simon sadly...he helped me out once with the same piggie when he had abscess in 2016, by giving advice which I relayed onto my vet and he made it...
we have a good exotics vet in North Walsham, loads of people recommended them... I usually go else where and they are great and although they have good experience with exotics, dentals are definitely not something they do, so we are heading straight to North Walsham tomorrow and we shall see what they say...

 

[Bill & Ted]

We are in Norfolk so can’t make it to see Simon sadly...he helped me out once with the same piggie when he had abscess in 2016, by giving advice which I relayed onto my vet and he made it...
we have a good exotics vet in North Walsham, loads of people recommended them... I usually go else where and they are great and although they have good experience with exotics, dentals are definitely not something they do, so we are heading straight to North Walsham tomorrow and we shall see what they say...

Lovely part of the world! Saw some Common Cranes near there some years back. Hope all goes well for your little man and they find out what’s the problem x

 

[oxtinamona]

Lovely part of the world! Saw some Common Cranes near there some years back. Hope all goes well for your little man and they find out what’s the problem x

Thank you, morning couldn’t come soon enough

 

[oxtinamona]

Thank you, morning couldn’t come soon enough

So he is eating on his own but only softest foods, below pic represents all that’s left of butterhead lettuce... I suppose that’s a massive clue that whatever is bothering him is in his mouth

 

[Bill & Ted]

So he is eating on his own but only softest foods, below pic represents all that’s left of butterhead lettuce... I suppose that’s a massive clue that whatever is bothering him is in his mouth

Have the vet check for fungal mouth condition too x

 

[oxtinamona]

Thank you, morning couldn’t come soon enough

Have the vet check for fungal mouth condition too x

Ok will do, thank you

 

[oxtinamona]

Ok will do, thank you

We have said goodbye to our beautiful Presley. He had two large kidney stones. I’ve no idea how he managed to act and eat as normal even trying yesterday and eating soft lettuce this morning... in my wildest dreams I didn’t expect to hear he had two kidney stones... i was ready for dental, I was ready for diabetes, infection... but his little body got too weak for a kidney removal surgery with no guarantee that they won’t return he was on law calcium diet and it still got him ... clearly law calcium diet had absolutely zero effect and it’s all about genetics at the end of the day ;( rest in peace my gorgeous cheeky purring monkey x

 

[Lorcan]

I am so, so sorry, you must be devastated. Please don't blame yourself, you did everything you could and more.

 

[Gem789]

I'm so sorry to hear this xx

 

[oxtinamona]

I'm so sorry to hear this xx

Thank you all

 

[Bill & Ted]

So sorry that you have lost Presley. You did everything you could have done, sending you big hugs x
Sleep tight little one x