teeth work - hay only diet?

[RachelW]

My little Ben is ill again, and he needed some teeth work. His molars had built a bridge and had trapped his tongue, so the vet had to cut his molars yesterday.
He has been poorly before with pneumonia, and I think when he was poorly, he was not able to eat properly, and this is why he had not used his teeth as he should have (he has never had this problem before - he lost a lower incisor due to an abscess last year, which never grew back, but this did not seem to bother him.)
My three girls get the same food, and their teeth are all ok.

Now the thing is that Ben has lost a lot of weight. He used to weigh 1040-1060 g before his pneunomia, and then he lost a little because of that (but this is cured now), and now since he had problems with his teeth, he is down to only 850g.
Yesterday the vet said I should prevent Ben having regular teeth problems (and regular teeth work with sedation, which must be very stressful for his little body), by feeding him hay only, so he uses his teeth more. I am not supposed to give him dry food, nor veggies, since these would have too many calories, he would be full more quickly and therefore would not eat enough hay which is necessary for his teeth.

Of course the piggies get large amounts of hay anyway, but at the moment, I am a bit confused because he has already lost so much weight, and I really doubt he can put it back on by eating only hay. I thought they get their vitamins and nutritients mainly from veggies, and I am not sure if I should really cut them out!?
And the other thing I am worried about: if he really needs regular teeth work now, how can his little body cope with sedation every 2 or 3 weeks? I hope this won't be necessary, but I also know that this can be a vicious circle.

He has not eaten much today, although he has recovered from the anaesthetic and seems more upbeat today than he was yesterday.

What should I do concerning the hay only diet?
Any suggestions welcome!

 

[alcesterpigs]

There is no need for either a general anesthetic or sedation to either examine or trim the teeth.
You must syringe feed him if he continues to lose weight. A diet of hay and nothing else would have him lose even more weight. Encourage him to eat by giving him fresh grass, most pigs cannot eat enough! The mineral content of grass should be enough to keep his teeth worn down to a proper level.

 

[RachelW]

Yes, I know about the sedation and that many vets in the UK (or rodentologists) do it without sedation.
However, I read so much about teeth work without anaesthetic (also in the book from the CCT), and I wrote a lot about my researches on this topic back then in the Pauline thread last year.
In Germany, there is no vet at all who does teeth work without anaesthetic - none at all. I even contacted a vet who is specialised in piggy teeth problems (he does not live close but last year, I contacted everyone to ask for help so I thought it was worth to give it a shot), and he also said he would never do this without. They don't use gas in order to sedate piggies, they use an injection to help them sleep for the duration of the treatment. And then again an injection to help them wake up.

So I was happy that at least my new vet only uses sedation if she really has to cut or rasp the teeth - my former vet even used sedation whenever she only needed to LOOK at the teeth, because she did not have this little camera that my new vet uses to look into their mouth.
I have also discussed the pros and cons of anaesthetic with my new vet, three weeks ago when Ben needed his first teeth work, and she said she is too afraid that she might hurt the piggy, and also the piggy would suffer fear of death during the treatment, and this is why she always uses sedation.

However, I am of course worried, if this will become a regular treatment, then I don't want Bennie sedated every couple of weeks, since it is not easy for his little body to cope with.
On the other hand, it is better to have it done with sedation, if necessary, than not at all!

I will try to get some fresh grass, which is not easy here in Frankfurt. The grass I may find is polluted by either dog pee or car pollution. I will see if I can find a nice meadow at the weekend where I can cut some grass.

 

[Glynis]

Hi love xxxxxxxxxxxxx
I do agree with AP that just hay is not ideal at all.
I too would start immediately on the feeding with syringe of either CC or equivalent. If you want directions on how to mix or anything else i'm happy to do this thru pm or emails xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
As you know Duke had toofie problems and unfortunately in OZ they will not do this without using sedation........he went for more than 1 1/2yrs having regular toofie trims and in the end for about the last 6 months or so it was 2-3 weekly. So yes they can survive thru them, it's just not really ideal.....but you don't want him to have his molars cross over again and trap his tongue not only does it cause eating problems but they can get ulcers on their tongues as well
I'd still give lots of hay and water, pellets, fresh grass (perhaps you could ask family or friends if they have some?) and i'd do a few veggies as you want a varied diet and you want him to be encouraged to eat.
Give the little guy all our love and healing wheeeeeeeeeks xx>>>xx>>>xx>>>xx>>>

 

[RachelW]

Thanks. I have fed him critical care until yesterday (I am quite experienced with syringe feeding, I had to feed my Pauline for months last year when she was poorly), but now the vet said that I should stop that, too, since he has to eat for himself. On the other hand, I also think that it is not enough and I don't want him to starve.

So you also think the hay only diet is not enough... good to know, since I already thought it might be. I see the vet's point, but Ben is already quite weak, and I think putting on weight is more important at the moment than using his teeth by munching on hay only...

 

[RachelW]

PS what was it that initially caused Duke's teeth problems back then?

 

[Glynis]

No it's a two fold thing, yes he needs to eat by himself but he wont if not feeling well and if they loose weight.....well you're experienced in this already you know the outcome.
I remember when little Pauline was ill 8...
Bennie needs his hay etc. but i'd also do the critical care or mushed up pellets, perhaps alternate them so he's getting variety. I'd still do veggies not heaps and not too much fruit but even broccoli and carrots (small amounts) are good for their toofies !

Duke's orginal problems stem back from when he lost his brother Sully in August 2006. When Sully got sick Duke was quite upset and i could see he was down as well. After he passed away Duke mourned and then he got fussy and it just seemed to escalate, then he got another abscess :p
from then on it was a battle i had to take him off his hay bedding and then only have hay as eating, he gave it up and would only eat veg.....anyways long story.

Go with your gut feeling, Bennie needs variety and to be tempted into eating for himself. Some CC feeding but offer him whilst on your knee lots of little treats, like some parsley or carrot tops and then encourage him to eat off a plate with more veg and some pellets.

 

[RachelW]

I offered Ben his veggies plus his hay today and last night, and he weighed 880g which is a little better than the 850 g he weighed yesterday.
He eats very slowly, and I still think there is no way he can eat enough hay to put on weight. I will have to discuss this with the vet when I phone her later this week.
I might go to my in-laws garden at the weekend to cut some grass. They are the only people I know who own a house with garden (must sound very unusual for British people, I know), and I think their grass is not polluted by dog pee or car exhaust fumes.

 

[RachelW]

just a quick update - I told the vet that I give Ben his veggie as well as his hay, since I was concerned that he might lost even more weight. She said it is ok.
Ben weighs 890g at the moment, so he has not gained a lot, but I hope he will soon.