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The Whole Anti Petstore Thing.

PiggyOwner said:
You're absolutely right. We have had a few threads on here where it is apparent that a child has come on here asking for advice and I often wonder what their parents are thinking about all these new virtual friends offering advice.
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they simply don't know (and don't care) what their child is doing with his personal I-phone (7? 8? 10? I have a preistorical Nokia, hence also the money for the vet)
 
Eileen's Mum said:
Mine didn't come from a rescue and I couldn't be happier with them. Yes there have been issues but I would not return them or swap them for any other piggies. I love them all and am very happy to have them.

I'll be honest, I have contacted a rescue recently and was not at all happy with them. Rescues are not all the same. There are some amazing ones out there and this forum does list some great ones but there are also places that slap the name 'rescue' on their FB page or website but are really no better than BYBs or pet stores.

There are thousands of guinea pigs out there that are looking for homes be it breeders, pet stores or rescues and all of them deserve a chance. It's not their fault the situation they have been bred into.

If you can rescue then great, fantastic but if you have got your piggies another way, like many of us have, then so be it. I wont judge :)
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Yes I agree with your point that all rescue centres are not the same! I did get a piggy recently from one that had c ages stacked up in a corner with dogs barking in the same room! I thought that situation must be dreadful for small prey animals!
 
I have rescued piggies, rabbits and cats over numerous years but, my last rabbit was a totally impulse buy from Pets at Home. I walked in, I saw him and I bought him.

I never keep rabbits in cages/hutches, they are always free roaming in the house. But, Pets at Home just sold him to me with no questions asked about where he would live!

But I do agree that Pet Shops only sell animals for the profit margin and do see them merely as stock. The selling of all pets in any pet stores should be banned.
 
*kate* said:
I have rescued piggies, rabbits and cats over numerous years but, my last rabbit was a totally impulse buy from Pets at Home. I walked in, I saw him and I bought him.

I never keep rabbits in cages/hutches, they are always free roaming in the house. But, Pets at Home just sold him to me with no questions asked about where he would live!

But I do agree that Pet Shops only sell animals for the profit margin and do see them merely as stock. The selling of all pets in any pet stores should be banned.
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BBM - How about heavily regulated instead of banned ?
 
*kate* said:
Hmmmm, not sure really. Depends on the regulating? but then this wouldn't stop impulse buys by People who haven't the first clue how to look after the pet.
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I think it would , first off it should not be allowed to just stroll in , get the pet and walk out of the door.
You'd have documentation handed to you , you'd have to study it and clear a questionnaire (which can include as many parameters as deemed appropriate, suitable housing conditions , closest vet location , can it be reached , etc etc) . When you have to wait days / a couple of weeks to get clearance, I suspect your average impulse buyer would be discouraged or at very least made to understand what is actually happening with that buy.

Oh , another thing ( as I can hear the chant growing in intensity "who's gonna put that money"?) , instead of charging £20 for a "new" guinea pig , why not charge the buyer an additional 10 for the required paperwork clearance or whatever is put in place .
 
CriLondon said:
I think it would , first off it should not be allowed to just stroll in , get the pet and walk out of the door.
You'd have documentation handed to you , you'd have to study it and clear a questionnaire (which can include as many parameters as deemed appropriate, suitable housing conditions , closest vet location , can it be reached , etc etc) . When you have to wait days / a couple of weeks to get clearance, I suspect your average impulse buyer would be discouraged or at very least made to understand what is actually happening with that buy.

Oh , another thing ( as I can hear the chant growing in intensity "who's gonna put that money"?) , instead of charging £20 for a "new" guinea pig , why not charge the buyer an additional 10 for the required paperwork clearance or whatever is put in place .
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Who would scrutinise the documents? The Pet Store workers? would they also give the clearance? If so, then they would firstly need to be in a postion to decide what constitutes suitable housing as, at present, their hutches, particularly for rabbits, would never meet RSPCA guidelines.

Plus, any potential owners, could just lie to get the pet they want.
 
*kate* said:
Who would scrutinise the documents? The Pet Store workers? would they also give the clearance? If so, then they would firstly need to be in a postion to decide what constitutes suitable housing as, at present, their hutches, particularly for rabbits, would never meet RSPCA guidelines.

Plus, any potential owners, could just lie to get the pet they want.
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Well , like i've put in my previous posts , this would have to be imposed by governments like with any sort of licensing , we cannot expect pet stores to do this.
Hmmmm , maybe the documentation would have to be sent over to a third party for validation? Hence the increased costs for the buyer.

It is important to remember that governments write and pass laws , they are then aided by experts when writing up the regulations.
 
I'm firmly of the opinion that licenses for animal keeping would solve a lot of issues. The government gets it's tax, anyone not keeping animals to the letter of the license they hold can be prosecuted for any wrong doing, pet shops and breeders are forced to abide by health standards by law and most importantly, casually picking up a hamster from a petshop for a fiver becomes impossible, thereby removing the impulse buyers from the situation altogether. Basically, made it HARD for people to obtain the animals in the first place, ensuring that anyone who ends up with a pig or a dog or anything has been through a rigorous testing system designed to weed out those who aren't going to care.

Am I dreaming, probably, would it work, also probably, but we all know it won't happen for political reasons and that's a topic I try and stay clear of in my hobby spaces, so I shall shush!
 
All we can do is educate people about rescues .... it's then up to them.. my girls were from a farm park... I did try and find some in a rescue but the one I found wasn't for me...

We all love the piggies on the forum.. that's very clear...
 
CriLondon said:
Well , like i've put in my previous posts , this would have to be imposed by governments like with any sort of licensing , we cannot expect pet stores to do this.
Hmmmm , maybe the documentation would have to be sent over to a third party for validation? Hence the increased costs for the buyer.

It is important to remember that governments write and pass laws , they are then aided by experts when writing up the regulations.
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But even the RSPCA's accomodation sizes are merely recommendations, not law. The law only states that owners meet their animals needs with no basics set out for what meeting their needs entails.

Too many people still believe that rabbits are fine just stuck in a 3ftx2ft box. Minimum housing sizes need to be made law and I cannot, unfortunately, ever see this happening.

I just cannot ever see the impulse buying of pets ending.
 
*kate* said:
But even the RSPCA's accomodation sizes are merely recommendations, not law. The law only states that owners meet their animals needs with no basics set out for what meeting their needs entails.

Too many people still believe that rabbits are fine just stuck in a 3ftx2ft box. Minimum housing sizes need to be made law and I cannot, unfortunately, ever see this happening.

I just cannot ever see the impulse buying of pets ending.
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RSPCA is not a government agency as I'm sure you know , therefore can only produce recommendations not pass laws.
The laws , as they stand , are insufficient or inappropriate , that i definitely agree with you.
 
Absolutely loving this thread which shows what a diverse group we are. Regardless where people are getting their pets from its really all about education. If we were all educated as a society in the way to look after animals in a manner which they deserved then a lot of the things that we all see would become irrelevant. In essence its a cultural thing. If we could change the culture surrounding pet ownership or companionship or whatever you want to call it there would be no need for laws. Doing the right thing for any animal would be second nature.

This is where the forum is at its best - educating rather than dictating will make every pet on here have a much more fulfilling. happy life.

Lisa & Ali...x
 
flowerfairy said:
We could learn a lot from Switzerland judging by what I have read on this forum.
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CriLondon said:
Meaning ? Someone is writing something stupid (me) ?
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Flowerfairy is referring to a law in switzerland that states it is illegal to own a single guinea pig. They must be housed in pairs or more.
 
CriLondon said:
RSPCA is not a government agency as I'm sure you know , therefore can only produce recommendations not pass laws.
The laws , as they stand , are insufficient or inappropriate , that i definitely agree with you.
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That was the point I was making!
 
I'm really enjoying seeing the diversity in the forum as to how people came to own their piggies. I think it's an interesting read and many out there should hopefully realize they are not in any minority as we seem to have a good mix of variously sourced guinea pigs in the forum population.

I also appreciate that nothing has become too heated and that everyone has so far shared their views quite amicably on this thread ..and some very interesting points are being raised.
 
I wish I could say that education would do it, I wish I could believe for a moment that the concept of animals being easily obtainable and disposable property could be wiped out via education...but I've done a decade in retail and therefore have essentially no faith in human nature anymore, so I stand by the concept of a licensing system being the best bet. Educate where you can, but enforce better laws if you want to see real change.
 
*kate* said:
Too many people still believe that rabbits are fine just stuck in a 3ftx2ft box.
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Just one section of my buns hutch is bigger than that, they have 2 sections measuring 4x2.5ft inside a shed giving them another 8x5.5ft and unlimited access to a garden measuring 35x25ft. ;)
 
rome_italy said:
here a lot of people still get rid of their dogs before going to holidays and it is shameful (and we all judge very badly such owners, with public comments even online, we don't use any polite manners towards them, even journalists use the rudest manners towards them). I don't judge a poor child crying here because his stupid parents have put him in a[you] great psychological sufference[/you] not paying for "his"beloved pet. But I judge those teenagers who feel so brave and so adult and responsible (?) only because they are able to go to the supermarket to buy a salad and some hay. And I judge even worse those parents who let their children [you]surfing free the net[/you] asking strangers for helps they cannot get. Parents who spend money but pretend being poor, letting a child thinking he belongs to a poor family! I have read here incredible lies!
And I judge badly a stupid teenager who, after seeing and realising his parents' behaviour about the pet's bills, what is he doing at the death of his beloved pet? [you]he goes and adopts another one! [/you]And are you telling me it is impolite to judge? shall we be friendly even with those ones who abandon piggies and rabbits on the road for "personal reasons"?
When I was 12 and I used to spend boring months at the village with my nan, I got a kitten and of course I was happy (because I have always preferred pets company rather than human company). Then I realised that nan and parents would not ever call any vet... my cat was only a cat, an animal... no doctors for him. I learnt the lesson and the next pet (a guinea pig) was taken when I was 33. NOT BEFORE.
Here parents don't think a child needs to feel responsible using an animal; a pet comes into a family for other reasons, not for this crazy wish of "deceiving" children feeling adults before time. Many adults buy a pet and do a great mistake and very often they don't think a pet is worth a vet bill. But I don't see any teenager going around vet clinics and saying "this is MY dog" or "this is MY hamster". Luckily here vets don't even speak with children. You need to be an adult for going to a vet. And children are spoiled with toys, holidays, activities and other things.
My daughters (20 and 16) don't even know the road for going to a vet and have no responsability at home for anything. Anyway they both have a credit card linked with the family bank account, they go on holidays abroad with this card, but don't consider themselves ready for adopting a child or a pet or anything else.
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We have in England many problems and society is at a level where basic living is mixed up. I in my world i have a great life and when I extend outside that see life that I struggle with but help when I can. If each day we can make one person smile then soon the world be a better place. :hug:I'm a simple person but happy. xx
 
David Pet Lover said:
We have in England many problems and society is at a level where basic living is mixed up. I in my world i have a great life and when I extend outside that see life that I struggle with but help when I can. If each day we can make one person smile then soon the world be a better place. :hug:I'm a simple person but happy. xx
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I know you have a big heart, you have showed it lots of times:luv:... and I agree with all what you say, but sometimes it is better to make a child disappointed and angry and even crying for one day rather than making him/her smile today and then suffering in a short future. Children need to be educated and when they feel an exaggerated need of having a pet as a personal friend, even when parents don't agree for serious reasons, maybe something is going wrong in their social life and self esteem. And a pet should be never considered a toy (and, sorry but I don't feel interest in making smile a person who prefers spending for an holiday in Rome leaving a piggie/a pet without a vet; of course my heart is not that great...:evil:).
Anyway I am only expressing my opinion, forums should be used also for knowing different points of view, not only for getting support.
 
*kate* said:
Who would scrutinise the documents? The Pet Store workers? would they also give the clearance? If so, then they would firstly need to be in a postion to decide what constitutes suitable housing as, at present, their hutches, particularly for rabbits, would never meet RSPCA guidelines.

Plus, any potential owners, could just lie to get the pet they want.
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Some pet stores are getting there, I work for Pets Corner and we will not sell any animal to housing under the RSPCA recommended guidelines. The RSPCA definitely need to make their guidelines bigger for sure but I'm hoping to change the industry from the inside.

Also we refuse more sales for animals than we make by far, only sell sociable animals in pairs and educate people, make people go away and do research and get the correct equipment. If we feel we're being lied to or the people simply don't care (or buying pets for kids etc) we will not allow the sale. No impulse buying, no pets as presents and we're all small animal trained.

It's not quite as perfect as I would like but I'm hoping to work my way up to being a trainer one day and get a bigger say in things. In fact I'm currently in the process of applying for new products to be sold, my hope is for the Midwest but I'm not sure if we'd be able to due to the way it's already sold online etc.

Either way, I personally think it's easier to change things from the inside and help the company grow in the right way, putting the animals first which they already do.

I personally prefer to rescue but for those who want to go to a pet shop I'll be darn sure that they'll be getting the right information to give their animals a perfect life, that's why I like working here because we share the same values :)
 
rome_italy said:
I know you have a big heart, you have showed it lots of times:luv:... and I agree with all what you say, but sometimes it is better to make a child disappointed and angry and even crying for one day rather than making him/her smile today and then suffering in a short future. Children need to be educated and when they feel an exaggerated need of having a pet as a [you]personal[/you] friend, even when parents don't agree for serious reasons, maybe something is going wrong in their social life and self esteem. And a pet should be never considered a toy (and, sorry but I don't feel interest in making smile a person who prefers spending for an holiday in Rome leaving a piggie/a pet without a vet; of course my heart is not that great...:evil:).
Anyway I am only expressing my opinion, forums should be used also for knowing different points of view, not only for getting support.
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rome_italy said:
I know you have a big heart, you have showed it lots of times:luv:... and I agree with all what you say, but sometimes it is better to make a child disappointed and angry and even crying for one day rather than making him/her smile today and then suffering in a short future. Children need to be educated and when they feel an exaggerated need of having a pet as a [you]personal[/you] friend, even when parents don't agree for serious reasons, maybe something is going wrong in their social life and self esteem. And a pet should be never considered a toy (and, sorry but I don't feel interest in making smile a person who prefers spending for an holiday in Rome leaving a piggie/a pet without a vet; of course my heart is not that great...:evil:).
Anyway I am only expressing my opinion, forums should be used also for knowing different points of view, not only for getting support.
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Your heart is great and you have shown me a lovely side to many things. We all see and act differant to situtations. My concern is for the child given a animal as a pet for whateva reason. Reward. company or to please them is at a stage where the parents who think have done their bit by providing the said pet animal to them are unable to be approached by the child who has grown to love their pet without equal.and knows that " oh it be ok. it's only a piggie" off the parent is not enough when the piggie is ill or not ok. the love a child can give is equal to any adult can give only adults have more opportunity to fix things. Children have to learn but cannot if not teached. On a separate not how are then adorable piggies of yours. we still look at the bath time pictures. Bless. x
 
Cavy Kung-Fu said:
Some pet stores are getting there, I work for Pets Corner and we will not sell any animal to housing under the RSPCA recommended guidelines. The RSPCA definitely need to make their guidelines bigger for sure but I'm hoping to change the industry from the inside.

Also we refuse more sales for animals than we make by far, only sell sociable animals in pairs and educate people, make people go away and do research and get the correct equipment. If we feel we're being lied to or the people simply don't care (or buying pets for kids etc) we will not allow the sale. No impulse buying, no pets as presents and we're all small animal trained.

It's not quite as perfect as I would like but I'm hoping to work my way up to being a trainer one day and get a bigger say in things. In fact I'm currently in the process of applying for new products to be sold, my hope is for the Midwest but I'm not sure if we'd be able to due to the way it's already sold online etc.

Either way, I personally think it's easier to change things from the inside and help the company grow in the right way, putting the animals first which they already do.

I personally prefer to rescue but for those who want to go to a pet shop I'll be darn sure that they'll be getting the right information to give their animals a perfect life, that's why I like working here because we share the same values :)
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My daughter spent two weeks in Fleet and she says she visited a petstore which was just Pets Corner. It did not sell pets and in the department reserved to guinea pigs there were some leaflets and she took one home which I find really well written. It says in block capitals: THINK TWICE! and then there are a lot of questions: are you over 16? do you know... etc. If you are not 100% sure (... a long list follows) please think twice. And then it explains that they sell only piggies coming from certain ethical breeders and at the end it is written: "we will refuse to sell you a pet unless you can assure us that (... another list of dutiesd) ". The leaflet is written in a serious way. At this point I wonder why other shops are not following the same ethical rules.
Another thing: when we strictly condemn a single product sold into a shop (also a pet for example) we should boycopt all the other products sold there... Therefore, if (example!) P@H often sells ill/pregnant guinea pigs and I find its policy disgusting, I should never put a foot again into that shop even for buying hay or for buying Guinea Pig Magazine... and if I was the editor of that magazine (and I recommend the adoption) I should not sell my magazine there...;)
Actually I am not strict that way and I am not customer of anybody, I simply buy goods where they are cheap, that is today here and tomorrow there; but theorically I should not buy hay into a shop which sell (ill) guinea pigs...:roll: especially when nowadays there are a lot of possibilities to buy goods online.
By the way: I told my daughter to NOT buy anything at P@H, considering what I am reading here on this forum and in fact she bought a souvenir for the piggies in that shop which seems to act better. I will not change the world, but I feel better :D.
 
rome_italy said:
My daughter spent two weeks in Fleet and she says she visited a petstore which was just Pets Corner. It did not sell pets and in the department reserved to guinea pigs there were some leaflets and she took one home which I find really well written. It says in block capitals: THINK TWICE! and then there are a lot of questions: are you over 16? do you know... etc. If you are not 100% sure (... a long list follows) please think twice. And then it explains that they sell only piggies coming from certain ethical breeders and at the end it is written: "we will refuse to sell you a pet unless you can assure us that (... another list of dutiesd) ". The leaflet is written in a serious way. At this point I wonder why other shops are not following the same ethical rules.
Another thing: when we strictly condemn a single product sold into a shop (also a pet for example) we should boycopt all the other products sold there... Therefore, if (example!) P@H often sells ill/pregnant guinea pigs and I find its policy disgusting, I should never put a foot again into that shop even for buying hay or for buying Guinea Pig Magazine... and if I was the editor of that magazine (and I recommend the adoption) I should not sell my magazine there...;)
Actually I am not strict that way and I am not customer [you]of anybody[/you], I simply buy goods where they are cheap, that is today here and tomorrow there; but theorically I should not buy hay into a shop which sell (ill) guinea pigs...:roll: especially when nowadays there are a lot of possibilities to buy goods online.
By the way: I told my daughter to NOT buy anything at P@H, considering what I am reading here on this forum and in fact she bought a souvenir for the piggies in that shop which seems to act better. I will not change the world, but I feel better :D.
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Yes there aren't many of our stores that sell animals and we're super strict on who we sell to, that's what I love about it. I wouldn't be here otherwise.

We even refuse to sell fish to people if they don't have adequate equipment/tank size! We get a lot of angry customers, I had one guy shout at me because I wouldn't sell him a goldfish to a tank that was already tiny and over populated as it was. It's hard to reign in my temper sometimes but I just had to ask him to leave.

The company policies PC have are fab, they're behind us 100% when we refuse a sale. They (as a company) also try to get official animal welfare laws/standards sent into parliament all the time and do a lot for animal charities. They do a great deal of behind the scenes stuff, but because the owner hates advertising and bragging nobody really knows about it :))
 
As a fosterer for a rescue l think l know why a lot of people end up buying piggies.
Take today for example a nice man phoned me wanting to adopt a pair of piggies for his daughter. He had a large indoor cage and was knowledgeable about piggies. I offered to send him information about the 2 pairs of boars we have available. But he politely declined as his daughter wanted baby piggies.
This is a common scenario for me, people tend to have fixed ideas about the piggies they want, either wanting a particular sex or breed or as one lady said 'cute', or sometimes they want one similar to a pig they had in the past. Fair enough selecting the sex if they want to pair up a bereaved pig, but if you are getting a pair what difference does it make?
We just have piggies and in my eye they are all special in some way, but people can't get past their preconceived idea of the type of piggies they want.
I absolutely love it when people say 'l don't care what they look like' !
 
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