They’ll Never Get Along?

[schnicksy]

I lost a piggy last year, and after careful consideration, decided to bring my herd back up to four. I adopted Missy in January from the same place my other piggies have been adopted from. After 6 weeks of quarantine, I tried to bond them. It went very wrong, very quickly with Missy and Molly fighting and needing to be separated.

I’ve since divided part of the indoor run for Missy to live in now quarantine is over. She can be near the others but they can’t touch/nip each other. She is interested in Rufus, shows no care for Flynn. But, teeth chatters etc at Molly whenever she comes near and Molly does the same. It’s been 24 hours now and seems no better. When rufus went to see them both, Molly went to nip Rufus who starting chattering at her (they have never had an argument as far as I can remember before).

So I’m thinking this may not be one I can fix and may have to have two pairs moving forwards. Molly, I think, seems jealous of other piggies and has always been one to complain by squeaking (sometimes for no reason). Is it best to keep them as they are and see if it calms down over time, or do I need to start changing my living room and pens around so I will have two pairs of piggies. But separated with enough space to avoid arguments through the bars?

 

[schnicksy]

I should have said, this is the third piggy bonding I have experienced and the only one to fail. I’ve read all about behaviours from the amazing threads on here. As it’s the only time I’ve seen it go so wrong, I don’t know what to do for the best.

 

[rome_italy]

I am not sure from the names if you have one boar and three girls now....
I had big troubles last december when I bonded my new boar with my two sows and one of them started fighting in a very bad way with the new boar. I started preparing myself to the idea of having them separated, but it would have be difficult and very sad. Then the miracle just on Christmas day when the boar managed to mount the other sow and the naughty girl changed attitude all in a sudden! Since that day, after the mounting, the naughty girl accepted the boy!
hence I would advice to wait for the heat of a female, maybe some dinamics can change, who knows?
In the meanwhile I would try to bond them in another room (I noticed that into my daughters' bedroom they did not fight).
Actually I tried also another method: I sit there with them, in the middle of the kitchen, with some towels in hands and I threw the towel over them (gently) when they started grinding teeth too loudly. But the ultimate miracle arrived that day of the mounting...
Between my naughty Calipso and Osvaldo there was blood, hence the situation seemed really hopeless. (Now they are friends, although he is scared of her).
Don't lose hope, maybe something will change. A heat can change a lot of things...

 

[schnicksy]

@rome_italy I had an uncle called Osvaldo

It is two sows fighting. I have one boar (Rufus) and the rest are sows. I did not explain myself very well in my original post (sorry).

I’ll wait it out and see what happens with them next to each other; I might have a miracle too. The next intro would be in the kitchen where they rarely go. I think the hall was too familiar last time.

 

[rome_italy]

@rome_italy I had an uncle called Osvaldo

It is two sows fighting. I have one boar (Rufus) and the rest are sows. I did not explain myself very well in my original post (sorry).

I’ll wait it out and see what happens with them next to each other; I might have a miracle too. The next intro would be in the kitchen where they rarely go. I think the hall was too familiar last time.

and Rufus was the name of a male piggie I was asked to adopt!
You explained everything very well but sometimes I don't understand if your names are for females or males
So the two girls are fighting... I am not expert at all...
just some ideas: what's about taking the two fighting sows and put them together in a neutral territory? or giving them some treat by hand when they are hungry, so that they can approach you for the food without thinking too much of their fight? my two criminals stopped fighting just when the ambient was new and "scary" or interesting for them and it was safer to explore it together. They stopped quarreling even when they were hungry and I offered them some pellets.
Another advice: they "sniff" our stress and our fears. I know two relaxed owner (you know, those people who never see troubles even in tragedies) who were able to bond 3 males and a sow and another crazy mix. Don't ask me what they did, because they did nothing special, but they simply believed in the bonding. Absurd for me, but this is true. Their only secret (they told me when I was in troubles) is: give your whole house to the piggies, one day here and another day there. And keep you calm (they say it is easy!)

 

[Wiebke]

I should have said, this is the third piggy bonding I have experienced and the only one to fail. I’ve read all about behaviours from the amazing threads on here. As it’s the only time I’ve seen it go so wrong, I don’t know what to do for the best.

Hi!

I am very sorry, but personality clashes do happen. Once piggies have made up their mind whether they like somepig or not, they rarely going to change it in my own experience. It is always an upsetting experience!

I have my own fair share of failed bondings as you can never quite predict whether an introduction will come off or not. What looks ideal on paper may turn out completely different in the bonding pen. On the other hand, guinea pigs I never thought would work have become best of friends!

It would be good if you could find Molly a friend of her own liking in the longer run. She is obviously feeling very tense and on the defence right now.

The RSPCA Wallsall often has got neutered single boars and the other rescue within your reach is Honeybunnies by Fosse Park near Leicester. Both rescues offer dating at the rescue, so you will come home with a new piggy only when acceptance has happened. They are the two rescues that are in our area as you are fairly local to me.
Guinea Pig Rescue Centre Locator

 

[Wiebke]

and Rufus was the name of a male piggie I was asked to adopt!
You explained everything very well but sometimes I don't understand if your names are for females or males
So the two girls are fighting... I am not expert at all...
just some ideas: what's about taking the two fighting sows and put them together in a neutral territory? or giving them some treat by hand when they are hungry, so that they can approach you for the food without thinking too much of their fight? my two criminals stopped fighting just when the ambient was new and "scary" or interesting for them and it was safer to explore it together. They stopped quarreling even when they were hungry and I offered them some pellets.
Another advice: they "sniff" our stress and our fears. I know two relaxed owner (you know, those people who never see troubles even in tragedies) who were able to bond 3 males and a sow and another crazy mix. Don't ask me what they did, because they did nothing special, but they simply believed in the bonding. Absurd for me, but this is true. Their only secret (they told me when I was in troubles) is: give your whole house to the piggies, one day here and another day there. And keep you calm (they say it is easy!)

Please do not force a confrontation between the two feuding sows. The problem with a group is that existing dislikes and hidden conflicts will come up again and again and can destabilise the group over years. Twice it has ended with full-on bullying after several years of simmering in the underground and once with a real fight in the case of a leadership takeover for me. Like with human workmates - when you really do not gel with someone but are forced to work with them, then long term issues are inevitable.

 

[schnicksy]

@rome_italy @Wiebke

Thank you both. I’ll see if it calms down Over the next few days and if not, try two pairs. I don’t have space for a fifth but I can make space if it all goes wrong. But try dating first rather than hoping it will all go okay. I want to do right by my little piggies

 

[rome_italy]

yes, there are no rules... but as you are experienced and in the past you had successful bondings, let's hope you will find a good idea now for these two stubborn sows! @Wiebke is right, if they don't bear each others, as they are only instinctive and don't even have the "brain" for understanding that none of them is an enemy, there is nothing we can do.
But few days only means that games are still open...
Luckily the sows can be devided and then bonded again when and if the "winds" change!
Otherwise, is your cage large enough for putting a divider inside?
I don't know why, but I foresee a bonded group, maybe a bit weird like mine (I have three individualists always rumbling, bullying, pestering and showing dominance each others; they become a trio only around midnight when they start exploring forbidden places)

 

[VickiA]

I’ve had my fair share of failed bondings over the years. My experience of sows is that once they have made up their minds they don’t like another sow it doesn’t really matter what you want or try, they won’t live together. It sounds as though Molly is not going to accept Missy. I think I’d be tempted to try them as 2 pairs if you can.

 

[schnicksy]

@VickiA Thanks. I hoped it wasn’t a done deal. I can have them as pairs assuming I can make it work with them. It’s a shame to break up Rufus and Flynn but I may have to.

 

[Piggyluv+2]

I am not sure from the names if you have one boar and three girls now....
I had big troubles last december when I bonded my new boar with my two sows and one of them started fighting in a very bad way with the new boar. I started preparing myself to the idea of having them separated, but it would have be difficult and very sad. Then the miracle just on Christmas day when the boar managed to mount the other sow and the naughty girl changed attitude all in a sudden! Since that day, after the mounting, the naughty girl accepted the boy!
hence I would advice to wait for the heat of a female, maybe some dinamics can change, who knows?
In the meanwhile I would try to bond them in another room (I noticed that into my daughters' bedroom they did not fight).
Actually I tried also another method: I sit there with them, in the middle of the kitchen, with some towels in hands and I threw the towel over them (gently) when they started grinding teeth too loudly. But the ultimate miracle arrived that day of the mounting...
Between my naughty Calipso and Osvaldo there was blood, hence the situation seemed really hopeless. (Now they are friends, although he is scared of her).
Don't lose hope, maybe something will change. A heat can change a lot of things...

I felt that way with our two girls, the little one always bit the bigger one, was never nice, then one day they decided to get along! Lol it was that quick, hopefully yours will too, good luck

 

[rome_italy]

I felt that way with our two girls, the little one always bit the bigger one, was never nice, then one day they decided to get along! Lol it was that quick, hopefully yours will too, good luck

yes, you are right! But my trio has such a weird dominance, that is the problem... when I read here of piggies sniffing and stroking noses and sleeping together and cuddling each other I wonder what kind of animals I have at home!
My piggies want to stay far each others and:
Osvaldo is dominant to Calliope, he spends his day rumbling and moves around the cage with his constant GRRRRRR!!
Calliope is dominant to Calipso, she blocks the passages to her, and takes the food from her mouth, etc.
And Calipso is dominant to Osvaldo; he is scared of her.
At midnight they are good friends and start exploring the house and making damages if I am not ready to block them! Yesterday they nibbled my 4 new breakfast-tableclothes. Today I closed the rubbish bag and when I lifted it all the rubbish fell down on the floor: SOMEONE had nibbled the bag...
For this reason I go to bed late, so that they can be friends for at least one hour...
(but at least Calipso and Osvaldo stopped fighting, they both had scratches on the nose... terrible days!)