Timing for new companion(s) / neutering

[LMPigs]

Hi there,

We have a lovely and well bonded boar pair, Marshmallow and Toasted Marshmallow. They are two brothers that have just turned four.

Sadly, one of them has a terminal kidney problem. He is currently remaining perky with the various treatment he is getting, but despite our best efforts continues to slowly lose weight (currently 680g down from c.1kg at the beginning of the year) so our expectation is that he will eventually be leaving us, and also leaving Toasty on his own.

There are not a lot of rescues in the immediate area, so while we could go through a process of boar dating it might be quite difficult and I'm also not sure how I'd feel about it if we ending up with a little baby new guy, knowing that then in a couple of years he would also end up alone (taking into account Toasty's age).

Accordingly we were considering getting Toasty neutered and seeing whether we can adopt a pair of girls to make a little mini heard with him. It would be great to get the forum's opinion on this, in particular:

• while I know all bonds / groupings are down to individual character, am I right in thinking that finding a female pair that would work with a single boar *should* be a relatively easy task? I think this is a pretty common grouping?
• what are your thoughts on how to time all this. We are trying to be prepared, since we can, but its all a bit horrible to think about. Part of me wants to just leave it, which would be easier, but then whenever Marshmallow eventually passes we'll have a potentially sad and alone guinea pig to book into surgery, and obviously there is then a waiting period before he could meet any lady friends (although I guess maybe that overlaps with quarantine?).
  • The other option would be to book Toasty's operation now, which has the advantage that we currently know he's healthy, its (hopefully) not going to overlap with his bereavement, and he then can perhaps have a shorter period of being alone. The downside though is that we then have two pigs potentially needing extra care at the same time. Also, I don't know how long they would need to be apart as a result of the operation, because we really wouldn't want to risk the bond at all.
• I don't know whether age is a factor for the neutering surgery. Toasty seems to be in very good shape and in the prime of his life, but at 4 I guess he is not a spring chicken in guinea pig terms

I'd really appreciate some advice.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this.

A boar/sow grouping is the most stable but the sows need to accept the boar. Once you’ve got past acceptance it should be easier but it also comes down to whether a bonded pair of sows will want a boar with them. You’d do best to ensure the sows were young - older sows can be much less accepting. Dating between boars and sows is still the safest method of pairing up piggies. While a bond sounds like it might work out in theory, you don’t ever really know until you try.

Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

He would need to be kept away from sows for six weeks after surgery.
Overlapping with quarantine - not necessarily. If you got sows from a rescue then you would not quarantine because the rescue won’t rehome them until they have quarantined them themselves.
If you were to get one baby sow from a pet shop, then you cannot quarantine her because piggies under four months must not be kept alone. So if you were to have just one sow with him then he would have to be six weeks safe post neuter.
If you got two baby sows, then you can quarantine them and therefore keep them away from him for his post op wait as any youngsters would have each other for company during the quarantine period.

If you neuter him now, then he can be reunited with his companion as soon as he is home from surgery, provided he is eating well enough. You won’t need to keep them apart. The recovery from neuter is usually a straightforward one but obviously nobody can say for sure.
At his age you would want an experienced vet to do the neuter. He isn’t desperately old but he is older in terms of being neutered

You obviously have to be comfortable with whatever decision you make and you can’t let us sway you, but I would probably neuter now (if a vet approves). I know it’s not nice to think about him being alone, but you can make the decisions and get him through surgery with a clearer head and know he wont be alone for long

 

[Merab]

Sorry to hear about Marshmallow.
I can’t add to the advice @Piggies&buns has given but wanted to offer support.
Caring for a terminal piggy can be tiring so look after yourself.
Remember that you are already grieving.
Holding you in my heart

 

[Wiebke]

Hi there,

We have a lovely and well bonded boar pair, Marshmallow and Toasted Marshmallow. They are two brothers that have just turned four.

Sadly, one of them has a terminal kidney problem. He is currently remaining perky with the various treatment he is getting, but despite our best efforts continues to slowly lose weight (currently 680g down from c.1kg at the beginning of the year) so our expectation is that he will eventually be leaving us, and also leaving Toasty on his own.

There are not a lot of rescues in the immediate area, so while we could go through a process of boar dating it might be quite difficult and I'm also not sure how I'd feel about it if we ending up with a little baby new guy, knowing that then in a couple of years he would also end up alone (taking into account Toasty's age).

Accordingly we were considering getting Toasty neutered and seeing whether we can adopt a pair of girls to make a little mini heard with him. It would be great to get the forum's opinion on this, in particular:

• while I know all bonds / groupings are down to individual character, am I right in thinking that finding a female pair that would work with a single boar *should* be a relatively easy task? I think this is a pretty common grouping?
• what are your thoughts on how to time all this. We are trying to be prepared, since we can, but its all a bit horrible to think about. Part of me wants to just leave it, which would be easier, but then whenever Marshmallow eventually passes we'll have a potentially sad and alone guinea pig to book into surgery, and obviously there is then a waiting period before he could meet any lady friends (although I guess maybe that overlaps with quarantine?).
  • The other option would be to book Toasty's operation now, which has the advantage that we currently know he's healthy, its (hopefully) not going to overlap with his bereavement, and he then can perhaps have a shorter period of being alone. The downside though is that we then have two pigs potentially needing extra care at the same time. Also, I don't know how long they would need to be apart as a result of the operation, because we really wouldn't want to risk the bond at all.
• I don't know whether age is a factor for the neutering surgery. Toasty seems to be in very good shape and in the prime of his life, but at 4 I guess he is not a spring chicken in guinea pig terms

I'd really appreciate some advice.

Hi!

I am very sorry about Marshmallow, but it speaks for your care to think about the 'after' for Toast and to start your research early.

It is better not to wait with the neutering op since he is not getting younger and since there is a 6 weeks post-op safety wait to make sure that any semen in the tubes leading to the penis (which are not removed) has died off. This means that Toasty will be ready to go whenever the time comes.
Older boars can still be neutered but they will heal that bit more slowly. Most crucial is a good vet with small animal operating experience and a good post-op nursing team to keep the risk of complications low. Not being overweight is also important for boars; it is the biggest operation risk for adults.
With a bonded pair of boars, you do not need to separate. Unless your boy is very poorly and not eating post-op, he can go straight back with his mate.

We have a pretty comprehensive neutering information guide and also a weight guide, which tells you how to check whether your boy is a good weight for his individual size (feeling for the 'heft' or BMI); just weighing a piggy can't tell you whether they are overweight or not because piggies can differ massively in size. I've had piggies who were stout for their small frame at 900g and one very large boy who was verging on skinny at 1400g.
Here are the links for more in-depth information:
Neutered / De-sexed Boars And Neutering Operations: Myths, Facts and Post-op Care
Weight - Monitoring and Management
Tips For Post-operative Care

As to two lady friends: ideally you are looking for a well-bonded pair of young sub-adult sows that will accept a boar. At this age, their biological urges are very much pushing them towards bonding; sub-teenage sows will also see their boar as much as a daddy as a hub at first, looking to him for crucial guidance and protection throughout the formative weeks between weaning and teenage. Teenagers and young adults are at an ideal age for having pups and - unless they have fear-aggression issues - are generally accepting, too; but you can never bank on it completely. We can only give general trends but never predict the actual outcome, which entirely depends on the individual personalities and the interactive dynamics between them.
Older sows, especially those past their ideal pup-bearing age and used to running the pair themselves are much less accepting of a 'husboar' and especially surrendering their leadership, which is in effect a demotion in status.
Here is more helpful and practical information on that aspect:
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
A Closer Look At Pairs (Boars - Sows - Mixed) (the sow chapter will also largely apply to a mixed trio)
Journey through a Lifetime: The Ages of Guinea Pigs

Please take the time to read the links and also take the time to ask your vet how they are feeling about neutering an older boar, and if necessary looking elsewhere. Finding the best vet is well worth it; using a vet who is not confident or happy with an elective operation is something I would recommend to avoid.

PS: I know of a number of successful neutering operations in older boars; even older ones than Toast.

 

[LMPigs]

Thank you @Piggies&buns @Wiebke for your thoughtful and considered advice, and to you both and @Merab's Slave for the sympathy.

I think it makes sense to get Mr. Toast's operation booked in soon rather than waiting. We will ask our usual vet for their track record on Guinea Pig neutering, so we can see whether we are comfortable for them to carry out the surgery.