To separate or not to separate?

[aimz84**]

Hi, sorry apologoes for the long post. Please tell me if its too long. I just dont really know how to explain it without giving the story of the situation.

Ive been reading the bonding and behaviour thread in boars and I'm not really sure on what to do..
Although I'm not a first time owner (30+years) but I've never had rescues younger than 2-3 years, so I'm not really sure how to handle this situation.

I rescued these 2 boys back in November, and was told they were 13 weeks, so theyre approx 9 months old.
And only a couple of days ago, I noticed that one of them, Ziggy, seems a bit withdrawn and quiet, compared to when I first got them. My first thought was that he was poorly and wasn't eating. Hes fine, and is eating, thank goodness. It turns out, Lucias, his brother, has been stopping him from eating anything but hay (i mean its great hes still eating hay, but still).

They have a 6ft double hutch in the shed, and ive been putting food and hay both up and down.
And ive been keeping an eye on them. And Lucias is definitely pushing ziggy away from eating "the good stuff-veg, herbs, grass etc" and each time Lucias goes to the area where Ziggy is, Ziggy just runs off like hes trying to avoid him.

Now I know that information says that you shoukd separate unless blood is drawn and there are no signs of actual fights, no bite would to either of them.
So this is where I'm.not sure what to do.

Do I separate them now because Ziggy is unhappy and unable to be himself around Lucias or do I keep them together and let them work it out?

Any help would be appreciated please.

I feel silly asking after having piggies for so long but as I say, I've e always had boys that are already happy together or ones that have actually had a fight and its obvious they need to be separated.

Thank you and apologoes again for such a long thread.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Please don’t feel silly for asking.
We are always happy to help

There doesn’t have to be a fight before you separate. Bullying or a clearly dysfunctional bond without an actual fight is still a reason to separate. Fights can occur right at the end when the bullied pig finally has enough.
Do note that there is another hormone spike at around 9-10 months. It’s not as big as the one at 4-6 months but it happens nonetheless.

What you can do is carry out a trial temporary separation for a few days to see if ziggy perks up when he is away from Lucias.
If you decide he is then you can leave them apart from then on.
If you aren’t sure then you put the back together on neutral territory and let them decide - and then either keep them together or permanently separate based on what happens in neutral.

The issue is that when separated (either temporarily or permanently), they need to be side by side so they can see each other at all times and unfortunately a hutch doesn’t work for that. You can’t put one at the top and one at the bottom as they then lose all ability to interact and would become lonely. And even two hutches can’t be positioned to allow side by side living.

I have separated boys and they are now in a c&c cage in the shed. It is far from ideal on many aspects given they are in a shed but it’s the only way I can make it work.
I did originally have them both in the bottom part of the hutch, split it in half with grids down the middle and then extended c&c cages out the front of the hutch to make the enclosure for each the right size (for various reasons I found it difficult for long term)

Bonds In Trouble
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

 

[fluffysal]

I also separated my boys without them having a fight. It was actually my dominant who was miserable. Master Boris was constantly getting in his face, but not challenging for dominance. Poor Sir George suffers from sterile cystitis that can be brought on by stress. He perked right up after seperation.

 

[aimz84**]

Please don’t feel silly for asking.
We are always happy to help

There doesn’t have to be a fight before you separate. Bullying or a clearly dysfunctional bond without an actual fight is still a reason to separate. Fights can occur right at the end when the bullied pig finally has enough.
Do note that there is another hormone spike at around 9-10 months. It’s not as big as the one at 4-6 months but it happens nonetheless.

What you can do is carry out a trial temporary separation for a few days to see if ziggy perks up when he is away from Lucias.
If you decide he is then you can leave them apart from then on.
If you aren’t sure then you put the back together on neutral territory and let them decide - and then either keep them together or permanently separate based on what happens in neutral.

The issue is that when separated (either temporarily or permanently), they need to be side by side so they can see each other at all times and unfortunately a hutch doesn’t work for that. You can’t put one at the top and one at the bottom as they then lose all ability to interact and would become lonely. And even two hutches can’t be positioned to allow side by side living.

I have separated boys and they are now in a c&c cage in the shed. It is far from ideal on many aspects given they are in a shed but it’s the only way I can make it work.
I did originally have them both in the bottom part of the hutch, split it in half with grids down the middle and then extended c&c cages out the front of the hutch to make the enclosure for each the right size (for various reasons I found it difficult for long term)

Bonds In Trouble
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

Hi, I'm so sorry I didnt reply sooner.

Ive been keeping an eye on them and they actually seemed to settle down and they would eat and sleep together or separate themselves if they needed to.

So everything was fine until today when I noticed that Ziggy has a bloody ear, only a small cut and a small scratch on the other one and another small scratch on his face but this one cpukd easily be his own claw as they had claw clips yesterday.
Husband said he heard them squeaking, just before I got home from work, but thought they heard him getting food (as they do most days)

It looks like Lucias has got Ziggy. So weve separated and are just separating the hutch for tonight. Tomorrow we will be fixing the shed so they can be side by side.

Since separating, Ziggy has literally just started eating and hasnt been too bothered, not looking for Lucias either.
Lucias on the other hand has been chewing the bars of the run trying to get to Ziggy and being very chatty.

Just hoping I'm doing the right thing, as I know they say once blood has been drawn they may never go back.

Will be keeping an eye on them, and hopefully theis works.

Animals ey lol.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Hi, I'm so sorry I didnt reply sooner.

Ive been keeping an eye on them and they actually seemed to settle down and they would eat and sleep together or separate themselves if they needed to.

So everything was fine until today when I noticed that Ziggy has a bloody ear, only a small cut and a small scratch on the other one and another small scratch on his face but this one cpukd easily be his own claw as they had claw clips yesterday.
Husband said he heard them squeaking, just before I got home from work, but thought they heard him getting food (as they do most days)

It looks like Lucias has got Ziggy. So weve separated and are just separating the hutch for tonight. Tomorrow we will be fixing the shed so they can be side by side.

Since separating, Ziggy has literally just started eating and hasnt been too bothered, not looking for Lucias either.
Lucias on the other hand has been chewing the bars of the run trying to get to Ziggy and being very chatty.

Just hoping I'm doing the right thing, as I know they say once blood has been drawn they may never go back.

Will be keeping an eye on them, and hopefully theis works.

Animals ey lol.

Sorry to hear you’ve found wounds.
The fact ziggy has perked up is a very clear sign that you have done right by separating them. Lucias is going to be upset by the separation as he is now unable to bully Ziggy.
Sorry things haven’t worked out between them

 

[aimz84**]

Weve made a temp housing gor now. But any recommendations on bedtime place to get c&c grids please?

First night apart yesterday and they both seem happier although when out in the run Lucias chews the bars to get to Ziggy but soon settled.

Thank you for all the help

 

[fluffysal]

I use songmics grids from amazon. I've had them nearly 4 years with no issues.

 

[aimz84**]

I use songmics grids from amazon. I've had them nearly 4 years with no issues.

Ah thanks. I did see those ones.

I also found these but I'm not sure if the ones with squares or just bars would be better.

What are your thoughts? I need to have a roof on it as I like the idea of extra security, even though I know they are safe lol.

Thanks

 

[Piggies&buns]

Ah thanks. I did see those ones.

I also found these but I'm not sure if the ones with squares or just bars would be better.

What are your thoughts? I need to have a roof on it as I like the idea of extra security, even though I know they are safe lol.

Thanks

Personal preference really - either squares (with 9 holes; anything less then the holes are too big and pose a risk) or bars are fine

 

[aimz84**]

Thank you

 

[aimz84**]

Sorry, you're going to get fed up with me asking questions lol.

Do you guys have any recommendations on being able to raise up their grids so I dont have to bend over for too long while cleaning. And I do t really want to have remove the housing from the shed each time I want to sweep it out.

Any ideas how I can make this easier on ny back lol.

Thanks

 

[fluffysal]

Questions are always welcome so no apologies needed. I bought extra grids and made a stand from them. This doubled up as storage as I put some horizontal. My IKEA folding storage boxes fitted perfectly. Sorry the picture isn't very clear.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Sorry, you're going to get fed up with me asking questions lol.

Do you guys have any recommendations on being able to raise up their grids so I dont have to bend over for too long while cleaning. And I do t really want to have remove the housing from the shed each time I want to sweep it out.

Any ideas how I can make this easier on ny back lol.

Thanks

We are happy to answer questions!
Can you post a picture of your set up?
Are they just in a c&c now and you’re not using the hutch at all?
C&c cages can be put onto stands by using additional grids