Toilet Trouble

[Bigsize9fot]

My female guinea is having some trouble in the bladder department I think. When we went to take her out yesterday she was soaked through all her back end and the back part of her tummy/underside. She also smelt really bad. We gave her a wash and I noticed that her toileting "parts" were all swollen and she squeeked when she did a pee which was very white in colour. I suspect some kind of urine infection? She also wont jump up to her platform even when her beloved parsley is up there. We hae a vet appointment later on but you guys are so knowledgable its helpful to have some advice before we go.

Yoshi is 4- possibly 5- they were rescued at age 1/2 and we have had them 3 years. She has had problems with urine crystals before which almost killed her (she stopped eating and had to be hand fed but recovered with antibiotics) Since then we have radically altered her diet and she receives only hay, 1 green bean, a thumb size of celery, a small chunk of pepper and some coriander. They also have a handful of nuggets every day. Is it likely this will keep recurring and how can we help stop this happening? I am worried about the not being able to jump to her platform although she can get in and out of her litter tray where the hay is stored.

Any help appreciated.

 

[Wiebke]

My female guinea is having some trouble in the bladder department I think. When we went to take her out yesterday she was soaked through all her back end and the back part of her tummy/underside. She also smelt really bad. We gave her a wash and I noticed that her toileting "parts" were all swollen and she squeeked when she did a pee which was very white in colour. I suspect some kind of urine infection? She also wont jump up to her platform even when her beloved parsley is up there. We hae a vet appointment later on but you guys are so knowledgable its helpful to have some advice before we go.

Yoshi is 4- possibly 5- they were rescued at age 1/2 and we have had them 3 years. She has had problems with urine crystals before which almost killed her (she stopped eating and had to be hand fed but recovered with antibiotics) Since then we have radically altered her diet and she receives only hay, 1 green bean, a thumb size of celery, a small chunk of pepper and some coriander. They also have a handful of nuggets every day. Is it likely this will keep recurring and how can we help stop this happening? I am worried about the not being able to jump to her platform although she can get in and out of her litter tray where the hay is stored.

Any help appreciated.

Hi!

Please have her vet checked promptly and also make sure that the vet checks her reproductive system. You are dealing with an infection in either the bladder (can be bacterial or sterile) or a fluid-filled womb; the strong stale smell is a typical symptoms for that.

My Cariad developed a grossly fluid-filled womb with a lump in it only months after a bladder stone operation; I took her to the vets because I thought she had a bladder infection from yet another build up of crystals/sludge.
The symptoms could also fit for sterile interstitial cystitis (sterile IC), which doesn't react to/cannot be healed by antibiotics and can usually only be diagnosed by default after any other problems in the urinary or reproductive tract have been eliminated.

Please also keep in mind that a low calcium diet takes some time to kick in and that calcium absorption is complex process. Depending on what is going wrong and whether there is a strong genetic disposition, you may struggle to get on top of it completely if my Cariad is anything to go by. But despite repeated bladder flushes and an emergency spay at 700g (which also caught some rather nasty looking ovarian cysts), she still lived to reach the lower end of the average life span.

All the best! Only a thorough vet check will be able to tell what you are actually dealing with.

 

[Bigsize9fot]

Hi!

Please have her vet checked promptly and also make sure that the vet checks her reproductive system. You are dealing with an infection in either the bladder (can be bacterial or sterile) or a fluid-filled womb; the strong stale smell is a typical symptoms for that.

My Cariad developed a grossly fluid-filled womb with a lump in it only months after a bladder stone operation; I took her to the vets because I thought she had a bladder infection from yet another build up of crystals/sludge.
The symptoms could also fit for sterile interstitial cystitis (sterile IC), which doesn't react to/cannot be healed by antibiotics and can usually only be diagnosed by default after any other problems in the urinary or reproductive tract have been eliminated.

Please also keep in mind that a low calcium diet takes some time to kick in and that calcium absorption is complex process. Depending on what is going wrong and whether there is a strong genetic disposition, you may struggle to get on top of it completely if my Cariad is anything to go by. But despite repeated bladder flushes and an emergency spay at 700g (which also caught some rather nasty looking ovarian cysts), she still lived to reach the lower end of the average life span.

All the best! Only a thorough vet check will be able to tell what you are actually dealing with.

Hi Wiebke,

Thank you. Just back from the vet who thinks it might be cystitis but she did mention the uterus/womb too. She has had a painkiller and started some antibiotics and if no better in a few days needs to go back for an xray/scan. It has been a year since her bladder stones so low calcium diet since then- even the water here is soft- maybe she will just be prone to this.

Worryingly she has lost 100g since her last visit 2 weeks ago for an eye infection (now cleared) She is still eating but I notice not with her usual gusto.

Yoshi is my sons guinea and he is adament he doesn't want her to have any surgery. I tend to agree with this as she is on the older end of the scale. WOuld this be a reasonable decision?

B

 

[Wiebke]

Hi Wiebke,

Thank you. Just back from the vet who thinks it might be cystitis but she did mention the uterus/womb too. She has had a painkiller and started some antibiotics and if no better in a few days needs to go back for an xray/scan. It has been a year since her bladder stones so low calcium diet since then- even the water here is soft- maybe she will just be prone to this.

Worryingly she has lost 100g since her last visit 2 weeks ago for an eye infection (now cleared) She is still eating but I notice not with her usual gusto.

Yoshi is my sons guinea and he is adament he doesn't want her to have any surgery. I tend to agree with this as she is on the older end of the scale. WOuld this be a reasonable decision?

B

Please step in with offering her syringe feed top up, whether it is from a syringe, a spoon or a bowl to help keep her weight up as much as possible. As she is still eating, it is enough to do it 2-3 times a day at this stage - as much as she will take voluntarily.
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

 

[Merab]

Can’t add anything but wanted to offer support.
Holding you in my thoughts

 

[Bigsize9fot]

Please step in with offering her syringe feed top up, whether it is from a syringe, a spoon or a bowl to help keep her weight up as much as possible. As she is still eating, it is enough to do it 2-3 times a day at this stage - as much as she will take voluntarily.
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Hi again Wiebke
Yoshi is a bit brighter today and seems to be eating better. I have weighed her and she has maintained her weight at exactly 1kg so I haven't started the critical care. I gave her another wash today as she was so smelly and wet. Her toileting parts still look very swollen and when she poos, they are very wet and she is secreting some kind of milky white substance.
How long should I give the antibiotics to make an improvement before I take her back to the vet? I don't have a very good feeling about it all. And should I continue to wash her down to make her more comfortable or is this doing more harm than good when she is feeling poorly?
I have taken the platform out of her cage and put in a shoe box with an entrance cut into it. She seemed quite interested in it but I *think* she looks sore around her back legs but I cant be sure its not my imagination. She has had 2 lots of antibiotics and due another one in the morning.

Kind regards
B

 

[Wiebke]

Hi again Wiebke
Yoshi is a bit brighter today and seems to be eating better. I have weighed her and she has maintained her weight at exactly 1kg so I haven't started the critical care. I gave her another wash today as she was so smelly and wet. Her toileting parts still look very swollen and when she poos, they are very wet and she is secreting some kind of milky white substance.
How long should I give the antibiotics to make an improvement before I take her back to the vet? I don't have a very good feeling about it all. And should I continue to wash her down to make her more comfortable or is this doing more harm than good when she is feeling poorly?
I have taken the platform out of her cage and put in a shoe box with an entrance cut into it. She seemed quite interested in it but I *think* she looks sore around her back legs but I cant be sure its not my imagination. She has had 2 lots of antibiotics and due another one in the morning.

Kind regards
B

Give it three days for the antibiotic to kick in and get to work but see a vet asap if her bits swell up even more and don't start swelling down before that.
Pyometra (infection of the womb lining) can be fatal in the advanced stages and so can a burst ovarian cyst. I strongly suspect that something is majorly wrong in her reproductive tract.

Give her gentle washes with water but make sure that she is warm and out of any drafts in the current weather.

 

[Bigsize9fot]

Give it three days for the antibiotic to kick in and get to work but see a vet asap if her bits swell up even more and don't start swelling down before that.
Pyometra (infection of the womb lining) can be fatal in the advanced stages and so can a burst ovarian cyst. I strongly suspect that something is majorly wrong in her reproductive tract.

Give her gentle washes with water but make sure that she is warm and out of any drafts in the current weather.

Thanks Wiebke- I value your advice. It certainly doesn't look the same as the last cystitis/bladder stones she had. I will make a vet appointment for Thursday as we should have a better idea by then. My son is prepared for the worst :-(

 

[Bigsize9fot]

Give it three days for the antibiotic to kick in and get to work but see a vet asap if her bits swell up even more and don't start swelling down before that.
Pyometra (infection of the womb lining) can be fatal in the advanced stages and so can a burst ovarian cyst. I strongly suspect that something is majorly wrong in her reproductive tract.

Give her gentle washes with water but make sure that she is warm and out of any drafts in the current weather.

Hi Wiebke,

Yoshi seems brighter today. No further weight loss and she is not as wet or smelly. Her toileting bits look a bit less gruesome. Eating and moving a bit better I think. See what tomorrow brings.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi Wiebke,

Yoshi seems brighter today. No further weight loss and she is not as wet or smelly. Her toileting bits look a bit less gruesome. Eating and moving a bit better I think. See what tomorrow brings.

Good - that means that the antibiotic is kicking in. Please continue with the course and see your vet as planned as long as the progress continues. It looks like you have stopped whatever it is in its tracks and that is the most important part!

 

[Bigsize9fot]

Good - that means that the antibiotic is kicking in. Please continue with the course and see your vet as planned as long as the progress continues. It looks like you have stopped whatever it is in its tracks and that is the most important part!

Hi again Wiebke,

Good news and bad (I think)

Yoshi is dry this morning and the smell has subsided. She has put on 32g. However- she just doesnt look well to me. Last nigth I saw her doing a weird lying down in her cage- almost trying to roll. It looked like she was uncomfy in some way. I havent seen her doing it this morning but she looks to me like her back legs are sore. She hobbles sometimes when she is running. And she looks tireder than usual- her eyes were closing in her hay tray.

Ive got a vet appointment at 4pm but its just to see what you think about what route I should go down- its weird shes improving in one way but gone downhill in another.

B

 

[Wiebke]

Hi again Wiebke,

Good news and bad (I think)

Yoshi is dry this morning and the smell has subsided. She has put on 32g. However- she just doesnt look well to me. Last nigth I saw her doing a weird lying down in her cage- almost trying to roll. It looked like she was uncomfy in some way. I havent seen her doing it this morning but she looks to me like her back legs are sore. She hobbles sometimes when she is running. And she looks tireder than usual- her eyes were closing in her hay tray.

Ive got a vet appointment at 4pm but its just to see what you think about what route I should go down- its weird shes improving in one way but gone downhill in another.

B

I would recommend an x-ray or scan to see what is going on; the infection is obviously coming under control but whatever has been causing it may be getting worse (womb/ovarian cysts). My bet is still rather on the reproductive tract than the urinary tract.
Pain/major discomfort/swelling etc. in urinary or reproductive tract can impact on the mobility of the back legs and on the gut.

Good that she is being seen this afternoon!

 

[Rivervixen]

healing vibes for yoshi - good luck at the vets xx

 

[Merab]

Hope all has gone well at the vets this afternoon

 

[Bigsize9fot]

I would recommend an x-ray or scan to see what is going on; the infection is obviously coming under control but whatever has been causing it may be getting worse (womb/ovarian cysts). My bet is still rather on the reproductive tract than the urinary tract.
Pain/major discomfort/swelling etc. in urinary or reproductive tract can impact on the mobility of the back legs and on the gut.

Good that she is being seen this afternoon!

Hi Wiebke,

Yoshi has a reprieve. She had a scan of the uterus and it all looks ok. The vet now thinks it might be arthritis in the legs? So she has some Metacam and is to continue with the antibiotics (these are certainly making a difference) She has returned much brighter and has scoffed some coriander and seems to be taking great interest in her new house I bought her. Fingers crossed for some more improvement tomorrow. The vet says there isn't much more that can be done investigation wise so this is our last hope. Thanks for all your help. It really does help to have some other opinions- I find it so hard to know what to do and sometimes I thin the vets don't always get it quite right.

B

 

[Wiebke]

Hi Wiebke,

Yoshi has a reprieve. She had a scan of the uterus and it all looks ok. The vet now thinks it might be arthritis in the legs? So she has some Metacam and is to continue with the antibiotics (these are certainly making a difference) She has returned much brighter and has scoffed some coriander and seems to be taking great interest in her new house I bought her. Fingers crossed for some more improvement tomorrow. The vet says there isn't much more that can be done investigation wise so this is our last hope. Thanks for all your help. It really does help to have some other opinions- I find it so hard to know what to do and sometimes I thin the vets don't always get it quite right.

B

Sometimes it is very difficult to work out what exactly is going on as issues in this part of the body can interact.

You may find the advice in this care guide here helpful for the longer term if you are dealing with arthritis: Looking after guinea pigs with limited or no mobility

Once you have the infection under control (which is your main aim), then you can see whether metacam and glucosamine (which is a food supplement and not a medication) can help the arthritis and see whether that works.

If your girl is dealing with sterile interstitial cystitis (non-bacterial recurring cystitis which cannot be healed by an antibiotic), then metacam and glucosamine are key to managing the symptoms as well. it is a condition that has become more common in the last decade but is not much known by general vets or exotics with not much guinea pig experience.

 

[Bigsize9fot]

Sometimes it is very difficult to work out what exactly is going on as issues in this part of the body can interact.

You may find the advice in this care guide here helpful for the longer term if you are dealing with arthritis: Looking after guinea pigs with limited or no mobility

Once you have the infection under control (which is your main aim), then you can see whether metacam and glucosamine (which is a food supplement and not a medication) can help the arthritis and see whether that works.

If your girl is dealing with sterile interstitial cystitis (non-bacterial recurring cystitis which cannot be healed by an antibiotic), then metacam and glucosamine are key to managing the symptoms as well. it is a condition that has become more common in the last decade but is not much known by general vets or exotics with not much guinea pig experience.

Yoshi seems almost back to normal. Though back legs still seem stiff. You can see her here on the left though on her back legs begging for nuggets :-) Could it be she’s had the arthritis for a while and the illness has brought it out?
she smells much better and is mostly dry. Her toileting parts seem almost back to normal to. Cats have 9 lives. I wonder how many Guineas have?!

 

[Wiebke]

Yoshi seems almost back to normal. Though back legs still seem stiff. You can see her here on the left though on her back legs begging for nuggets :-) Could it be she’s had the arthritis for a while and the illness has brought it out?
she smells much better and is mostly dry. Her toileting parts seem almost back to normal to. Cats have 9 lives. I wonder how many Guineas have?!
View attachment 125227

Glad that she is so much better and happily begging for food. What a cutie!

It can be that arthritis has already been present. You just have to play it by ear.

 

[Bigsize9fot]

Glad that she is so much better and happily begging for food. What a cutie!

It can be that arthritis has already been present. You just have to play it by ear.

Back again :-( The last few days I've noticed Yoshi has started to become wet round her back end again. Tonight I gave her a wash and a dry and within a couple of hours she is wet again. She also doesn't smell too good. Its not as bad as before but it worries me as she is still on antibiotics. She is also still on the Metacam and in all honesty, I cant see its making much difference. She is still kind of hobbling. Its pretty subtle but I can notice it.

The vet said we had reached the end of the line with treatment/investigation other than surgery. Any ideas?

 

[Wiebke]

I am very sorry!

Has your vet considered testing the fluid to see whether it is reacting to any antibiotic?

The other possibility is sterile interstitial cystitis (i.e. a recurring inflammation of the bladder walls rather than a bacterial infection), so antibiotics are useless. It cannot be healed but it can be managed with mainly glucosamine and metacam until it eventually goes away on it own, but that is more of a matter of years than a matter of months. It may take some weeks to get on top of it.
Here is some information: Guinea Lynx :: UTI

I have currently a couple of piggies with active sterile IC, one of which has the smelly pees but antibiotics are not reducting them. I am gradually reducing the frequency of them. But unlike with you, there is no swelling of the genitalia in mine.

Sterile IC has become more common, especially in indoors piggies, over the last decade but it is not much known outside vets who see a fair number of guinea pigs, whether that is exotics or general vets.

However, it may be something for you and your vet to pursue.

 

[Bigsize9fot]

I am very sorry!

Has your vet considered testing the fluid to see whether it is reacting to any antibiotic?

The other possibility is sterile interstitial cystitis (i.e. a recurring inflammation of the bladder walls rather than a bacterial infection), so antibiotics are useless. It cannot be healed but it can be managed with mainly glucosamine and metacam until it eventually goes away on it own, but that is more of a matter of years than a matter of months. It may take some weeks to get on top of it.
Here is some information: Guinea Lynx :: UTI

I have currently a couple of piggies with active sterile IC, one of which has the smelly pees but antibiotics are not reducting them. I am gradually reducing the frequency of them. But unlike with you, there is no swelling of the genitalia in mine.

Sterile IC has become more common, especially in indoors piggies, over the last decade but it is not much known outside vets who see a fair number of guinea pigs, whether that is exotics or general vets.

However, it may be something for you and your vet to pursue.

Yoshi has gone to Rainbow Bridge. She deteriorated quite quickly having lost 50g and obviously in pain in her back legs and soiled at her back end. It's a sad day. I don't know how her companion Mabel will cope. I will read up on what needs to be done to help. Thank you Wiebke for all your helpful advice and support.
B

 

[Gem789]

Yoshi has gone to Rainbow Bridge. She deteriorated quite quickly having lost 50g and obviously in pain in her back legs and soiled at her back end. It's a sad day. I don't know how her companion Mabel will cope. I will read up on what needs to be done to help. Thank you Wiebke for all your helpful advice and support.
B

I'm so sorry to hear this

 

[Wiebke]

Yoshi has gone to Rainbow Bridge. She deteriorated quite quickly having lost 50g and obviously in pain in her back legs and soiled at her back end. It's a sad day. I don't know how her companion Mabel will cope. I will read up on what needs to be done to help. Thank you Wiebke for all your helpful advice and support.
B

BIG HUGS

I am so very sorry! It sounds like something serious was going wrong that medication alone couldn't heal.

Please be sad but don't feel guilty or like you have let Yoshi down - you haven't in any way! Sometimes you come up against issues that you can do only so much and that you are running behind from the start. You have done all the right things in having her seen by a vet, including a scan.
You are welcome to post a tribute to Yoshi in our Rainbow if that feels right for you at any time.
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

Here are our tips on what you can do and what you want to look out for in Mabel in the coming days and weeks: Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig

 

[Bigsize9fot]

BIG HUGS

I am so very sorry! It sounds like something serious was going wrong that medication alone couldn't heal.

Please be sad but don't feel guilty or like you have let Yoshi down - you haven't in any way! Sometimes you come up against issues that you can do only so much and that you are running behind from the start. You have done all the right things in having her seen by a vet, including a scan.
You are welcome to post a tribute to Yoshi in our Rainbow if that feels right for you at any time.
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

Here are our tips on what you can do and what you want to look out for in Mabel in the coming days and weeks: Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig

Thank you. We will shower our love onto Mabel x