Trio bond broken

[Kzj]

Good morning

As expected and advised by all you very wise owners the trio of boars I rescued have broken their bond. Thanks to all of you I was prepared and had a temporary cage set up ready.

I now have two happy boy guinea pigs and one who is not used to being alone. His 4x2 c&c cage arrives Friday so he can be on exactly the same level as the others. His temporary one is right next to them, I just can’t get it quite level with them.

Cookie is not neutered so I can’t introduce a female friend until his is neutered and the six weeks after and given the way he has been with boys I’m not sure about adding a male.

Does anyone have any thoughts on what may be the best option long term? We are not looking to give him up as he is one of the family. We are registered with an exotic vet (cookie already had hay poke so is on meds for that still) and I know the cost to neuter and that’s fine if that’s the route we take. Is there also anything I can do now, other than making sure he can see and hear his ‘brothers’. Given his age (5/6 months)he has never been alone and I want to make this as painless as possible for him.

Note separation only happened last night, there was blood so no chance of reintroduction.

Thanks in advance for any nuggets of info! I’d already have been so underprepared if it wasn’t for all you guys!

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry to hear this.
I’m glad you were able to be prepared.

Your pair will spend the next couple of weeks reestablishing their bond as a pair so you may see some dominance between them over the coming weeks.

Your single boy should be fine being rebonded with another boar (but with any bond, they have to be compatible).
The trio broke due to there being three and it’s usually because there are two dominant boars - they just can’t get on. This does not rule out him being able to have another boar friend though.
If you can get in touch with a rescue and take him dating to find a new boar friend, then that is the safest way to go about getting him a new companion: they can ensure the two boars accept each other and that you aren’t left with another failed bond situation

A caution about getting him neutered and finding a female for him.
While a sow is the most viable option for him*, having a sow in the same room as your other boar pair poses a risk to your bonded boar pair.

* to clarify, getting your single boar another boar friend is definitely a very viable option, but bonding a teenage boar can be tricky due to the hormones so it does make a sow an easier option but not necessarily for the situation as a whole when considering your other pair.

Sows should ideally not be introduced into the room where a boar pair lives.
For the boar pair, simply smelling the sow can cause the two boys to fight with each other and thus risking them having to be separated as well.

If your single boy does need to have a sow friend (eg if several attempts with other boars fail), then the best case scenario is for the two pairs to be kept in two totally separate rooms. Thus removing all risk of the boar pair smelling the sow.
If that isn’t an option; then the cages would need to be stacked with the boar/sow pair at the bottom and the boar pair at the top. This helps minimise sow smells falling onto the boar pair. You would also need to deal with the boar pair first so you don’t accidentally transfer sow scents to the boys.
Another alternative is that the cages have to be as far apart as possible; or with opaque dividers between the cages which are higher and wider than the cages so the boar pair cannot see the sow and helps minimise pheromones from the sow getting to them.
These two alternatives are not guaranteed to prevent the risk to the boar bond, but these steps can help.

So there is no harm in starting the process of getting him neutered (given there is such a time between neutering and even being able to start attempting a sow bond, if he tries boars in the meantime and doesn’t find one then you are already a way down the healing process from a neuter) but don’t rule out another boar as it may end up being the easier option

In terms of now, keeping them side by side so they can see, hear and smell each other between the bars as much as possible.
And ensuring lots of mental stimulation for your single boy - scattering food amongst hay, tunnels, hides - but in reality the biggest stimulation will be from being side by side and still having body language interaction with the others.
You can expect to see dominance and territory marking between the divide (both now but especially when the cages are more level). You will see rumbling between the bars but perhaps also laying together at the bars. This is them securing and marking the boundary, not a sign they want to be together.

They will be fine being side by side.
I have two boys who fell out when young and they have lived side by side for a few years now.
(I did bond one of them with one of my other older boys who was bereaved until the older boy’s passing ).

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

 

[Kzj]

I’m sorry to hear this.
I’m glad you were able to be prepared.

Your pair will spend the next couple of weeks reestablishing their bond as a pair so you may see some dominance between them over the coming weeks.

Your single boy should be fine being rebonded with another boar (but with any bond, they have to be compatible).
The trio broke due to there being three and it’s usually because there are two dominant boars - they just can’t on. This does not rule out him being able to have another boar friend though.
If you can get in touch with a rescue and take him dating to find a new boar friend, then that is the safest way to go about getting him a new companion: they can ensure the two boars accept each other and that you aren’t left with another failed bond situation

A caution about getting him neutered and finding a female for him.
While a sow is the most viable option for him*, having a sow in the same room as your other boar pair poses a risk to your bonded boar pair.

* to clarify, getting your single boar another boar friend is definitely a very viable option, but bonding a teenage boar can be tricky due to the hormones so it does make a sow an easier option but not necessarily the situation as a whole when considering your other pair.

Sows should ideally not be introduced into the room where a boar pair lives.
For the boar pair, simply smelling the sow can cause the two boys to fight with each other and thus risking them having to be separated as well.

If your single boy does need to have a sow friend (eg if several attempts with other boars fail), then the best case scenario is for the two pairs to be kept in two totally separate rooms. Thus removing all risk of the boar pair smelling the sow.
If that isn’t an option; then the cages would need to be stacked with the boar/sow pair at the bottom and the boar pair at the top. This helps minimise sow smells falling onto the boar pair. You would also need to deal with the boar pair first so you don’t accidentally transfer sow scents to the boys.
Another alternative is that the cages have to be as far apart as possible; or with opaque dividers between the cages which are higher and wider than the cages so the boar pair cannot see the sow and helps minimise pheromones from the sow getting to them.
These two alternatives are not guaranteed to prevent the risk to the boar bond, but these steps can help.

So there is no harm in starting the process of getting him neutered (given there is such a time between neutering and even being able to start attempting a sow bond, if he tries boars in the meantime and doesn’t find one then you are already a way down the healing process from a neuter) but don’t rule out another boar as it may end up being the easier option

In terms of now, keeping them side by side so they can see, hear and smell each other between the bars as much as possible.
And ensuring lots of mental stimulation for your single boy - scattering food amongst hay, tunnels, hides - but in reality the biggest stimulation will be from being side by side and still having body language interaction with the others.
You can expect to see dominance and territory marking between the divide (both now but especially when the cages are more level). You will see rumbling between the bars but perhaps also laying together at the bars. This is them securing and marking the boundary, not a sign they want to be together.

They will be fine being side by side.
I have two boys who fell out when young and they have lived side by side for a few years now.
(I did bond one of them with one of my other older boys who was bereaved until the older boy’s passing ).

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

Thank you so much for the advice! I love this forum.

You have raised some fantastic points and addressed some of the worries in my mind about getting him a girlfriend if we neuter him. I thought this may impact the other two. Luckily despite being sold as ‘brother’ one of the pair living together now is definitely older and isn’t bothered by all the dominance stuff, he just enjoys stuffing his face all day! I think he is likely over a year due to his size and the state of his claws when we rescued him.

We are off on holiday for a week in just over a weeks time, so I’ll leave any intros till we get back as I’d want to be around and supervising that not relying on my teenage son and pet pop ins. Cookie might be ok when he is the same height as them! He just looks like he is regretting his life choices today.

We don’t have room to set them up in separate room so if it means we find another boy then I’m fine with that. I’ve been preparing my 6 year old that this split might happen and she’s been telling him before school how it will all work out and we will find him a new friend if he wants one.

I’m popping to pets at home at lunch to get hay so I’m going to give them feedback on them letting us adopt the ‘bonded’ trio. How the cage size wasn’t sufficient and the failure rate.

 

[Piggies&buns]

The dominance may still happen even if he is just out of his teens (teens being until 14 months old) - dominance is lifelong and is about bond and hierarchy formation and maintenance.
The good news is that not all dominance is all raging, mounting and chasing. Some pairs quietly do this stuff and you can find it hard to tell who is dominant because they are both laid back, they know who it is though!

Definitely a good idea to wait - it’s a lot to deal with and you aren’t in a bereavement situation so there isn’t a desperate need to get on rescue waiting lists etc to find a new friend.

It’s a shame this has happened but I’m glad you were able to be prepared and can manage the situation- the boys have found a great home!

 

[Kzj]

The dominance may still happen even if he is just out of his teens (teens being until 14 months old) - dominance is lifelong and is about bond and hierarchy formation and maintenance.
The good news is that not all dominance is all raging, mounting and chasing. Some pairs quietly do this stuff and you can find it hard to tell who is dominant because they are both laid back, they know who it is though!

Definitely a good idea to wait - it’s a lot to deal with and you aren’t in a bereavement situation so there isn’t a desperate need to get on rescue waiting lists etc to find a new friend.

It’s a shame this has happened but I’m glad you were able to be prepared and can manage the situation- the boys have found a great home!

Thanks - Ginger Nut (cookies brother) is tumble strut king, oddly Hobnob (the older one) has never done this while I’ve been with them. He generally ignores them and then gets back to his hay, I’m expecting a bit of an unsettled period, although weirdly the atmosphere in the room with them is calmer already.

Do you have any enrichment tips?Cookie has hides, I’m scattering his food and he loves a toilet roll tube stuffed with hay

 

[Piggies&buns]

I'm glad things are calmer!

This will help you - Enrichment Ideas for Guinea Pigs

 

[Merab]

Sorry that you are having to deal with a broken trio but it sounds as if you’re doing a great job for all 3 to give them the best life.
Mine love a hay stuffed paper bag. It needs to be strong paper owing to the chewing, remodelling, wee and poop. I reckon a maximum of 5 days for my pair to trash the bag but they have great fun.
The only things I buy are hay cubes and carrot cottages which are thoroughly enjoyed too.

 

[exia]

My Harry lost his neighboar a week ago. He have alot of balls to chew, a carrot house and a hay-spa (tray with hay). He also has a guinea pig-safe plant and wooden houses. But this tunnel is what he prefers, both now and when his neighboar was still around. He drags his food in there, sleeps and runs.


Kongo loved his tent and a paperbag with hay


Djingis Kahn loved his hay cube


All my boys loved the Pampersboxes! Especially Kongo.

 

[fluffysal]

My recently bereaved Dignified Sir George has several "humping" buddies. Baby safe cuddly toys from IKEA. For a long time after puberty finished they were just used as pillows. While we are waiting for his new friend, he is 3 1/2 the boy we're getting is 8 weeks, poor bunny has been getting a lot of "attention" and now has hay "glued" on in a couple of places!

 

[Kzj]

View attachment 284252
My Harry lost his neighboar a week ago. He have alot of balls to chew, a carrot house and a hay-spa (tray with hay). He also has a guinea pig-safe plant and wooden houses. But this tunnel is what he prefers, both now and when his neighboar was still around. He drags his food in there, sleeps and runs.
View attachment 284253
View attachment 284254
Kongo loved his tent and a paperbag with hay

View attachment 284255
Djingis Kahn loved his hay cube

View attachment 284257
All my boys loved the Pampersboxes! Especially Kongo.

Oh these look like such fun activities and it’s obvious how much love your lucky guineas have experienced. I think he would like a tunnel - one would fit into his new cage when it arrives. He currently has an old box he is choosing to hide under (ignoring all the lovely bedding).

 

[Kzj]

My recently bereaved Dignified Sir George has several "humping" buddies. Baby safe cuddly toys from IKEA. For a long time after puberty finished they were just used as pillows. While we are waiting for his new friend, he is 3 1/2 the boy we're getting is 8 weeks, poor bunny has been getting a lot of "attention" and now has hay "glued" on in a couple of places!View attachment 284265View attachment 284266View attachment 284267

Ooh I like the idea of Cookie having a friend. My daughter is only 6 so we must have a baby safe toy she would be willing to donate. I know you shouldn’t put human emotions on animals, it’s really hard not to.

 

[Kzj]

They were having a chat through the bars this morning bless them.

Also can I ask are all loud wheel noises happy? Hobnob was out in the run with my daughter and I’m not sure if he was happy or stressed. I’m erring on stressed

 

[Piggies&buns]

They were having a chat through the bars this morning bless them.

Also can I ask are all loud wheel noises happy? Hobnob was out in the run with my daughter and I’m not sure if he was happy or stressed. I’m erring on stressed

So from reading the thread hobnob is one of the pair with gingernut. cookie is the single.
Who was doing the wheeking?

If hobnob is one of the pair, then they both need onto into the run together (hobnob and gingernut should not be separated and particularly during these two weeks while they are establishing as a pair).
If he was in the run without gingernut then his noises could be because he didn’t want to be alone

 

[Kzj]

So from reading the thread hobnob is one of the pair with gingernut. cookie is the single.
Who was doing the wheeking?

If hobnob is one of the pair, then they both need onto into the run together (hobnob and gingernut should not be separated and particularly during these two weeks while they are establishing as a pair).
If he was in the run without gingernut then his noises could be because he didn’t want to be alone

Hobnob has done both, just found his voice yesterday, a little wheek in the cage both together and more wheeks when on his own in the run while i was trying to catch the elusive gingernut (I think he would win a guinea pig olympics race) and whilst I gave the then caught Ginger nut a full once over to check he was healthy.

I actually noticed the pair doing a few popcorns in their cage too and they are now coming out to say hello when I go into their room. I think them being out of the trio has been good for them.

On a positive note - cookie our currently single pig - his cage has arrived and the corroplast base comes tomorrow so he will be in his own guinea pig palace next to his pals by the weekend!

Now onto finding a nearby rescue so I can make enquiries about finding him a buddy of his own when we are back from holiday

 

[Kzj]

The gorgeous Hobnob

 

[Kzj]

Cookies proper cage arrived- I just spent the evening putting it together and he seems much perkier - have had to make sure there is a gap between them as they could just about touch noses through the bars. Lots of chatter between cookie and the others (wish I could speak guinea and know if they were being nice!

One 4x2 all to himself- I have lots of panels leftover so if we can find him a friend we can extend a bit! Feel like I can relax a bit now and try and get into a rhythm with them