Two baby sows - advice

Babies are in the bonding pen. 5 mins in .. no drama as of yet 🤞
 

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Had a few chin offs, & short periods of teeth chattering. Doesnt help that they are so jumpy at movements etc when I'm in the room. It seems to be daisy backing down now even though she was the bully previously. Not 100% convinced this will work but hopefully I'll see today.
 
The pigs went on hind legs but both backed off instantly. My nerves can't take this 🫣
 
We lasted 1 hour before I decided to separate. They had a few scuffles I'd call them. Didn't end up in tornados & no hair pulling out etc, but not a happy environment for either pig. The teeth chattering didn't escalate or de escalate, it was just at the same level throughout id say. No raised hackles but a few bouts of standing on hind legs & nipping with no actual bites if that makes sense.
 
larnanoomia said:
We lasted 1 hour before I decided to separate. They had a few scuffles I'd call them. Didn't end up in tornados & no hair pulling out etc, but not a happy environment for either pig. The teeth chattering didn't escalate or de escalate, it was just at the same level throughout id say. No raised hackles but a few bouts of standing on hind legs & nipping with no actual bites if that makes sense.
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Give them another go tomorrow. If stress levels are going straight back up again, then it is likely that the bonding has failed or will need a longer interval before you give it another try. Separate immediately as soon as things take a wrong turn.

If things are a lot calmer, then they have taken the big leadership hurdle and are going to go together. Give them ideally as long as you can - if necessary overnight - in the bonding pen to allow them to work the very roughest bit of the bonding process out. It makes for a much calmer process in the shared cage.

Bonding is always nerve-wracking... :yikes:
 
Wiebke said:
Give them another go tomorrow. If stress levels are going straight back up again, then it is likely that the bonding has failed. If things are a lot calmer, then they have taken the big leadership hurdle and are going to go together. Give them ideally as long as you can ' if necessary
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Will do, thanks. They are side by side now, with the bars in the middle
Neither will back down
Frustrating, I wish they could understand they'd have a lovely life in a massive enclosure with plenty of food If they just behaved 😂
 
larnanoomia said:
Will do, thanks. They are side by side now, with the bars in the middle
Neither will back down
Frustrating, I wish they could understand they'd have a lovely life in a massive enclosure with plenty of food If they just behaved 😂
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Welcome to the world of guinea pigs. It is in its own way as complex as ours and it very much depends on mutual liking and being able to come to an agreement or not; just as much as we humans do.
 
The pigs are back in the bonding pen. I've had to put two open ended log tunnels in as I do think fear plays a part in their aggression. They had 1 bout of teeth chattering, they both held their chins up and daisy the previous bully dropped her chin first. We will see what the rest of the session brings
 
larnanoomia said:
The pigs are back in the bonding pen. I've had to put two open ended log tunnels in as I do think fear plays a part in their aggression. They had 1 bout of teeth chattering, they both held their chins up and daisy the previous bully dropped her chin first. We will see what the rest of the session brings
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Rather place a sheet over the top so they cannot get possessive.
 
Wiebke said:
Rather place a sheet over the top so they cannot get possessive.
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Thanks i did do this in the end but unfortunately I stopped the session. Even though it was less frequent than yesterday it was still very hostile and stressful for both pigs
 
So these piglets never drew blood so I always hoped they'd live side by side without drama and they did.. until this morning
Ive woke up and daisy had pushed into roz' side of the cage! Zero fights, popcorning, sharing a hay tray. I've removed the separation. Daisy had no poos in her cage so she mustve done it as soon as I cleaned it about 8pm last night and I didn't check on them till 9am.
 
It’s good they’ve gone back together, do keep an eye on them over the coming two weeks though as it was essentially a territory invasion, you never know how things will go as they finalise the details of their bond

(Not drawing blood isn’t the benchmark - a bond can be dysfunctional and fail without blood ever being drawn. And that is even more vital to note in sows as it is much rarer for sows to have an actual blood drawing fight (boars tend to have an outright fight, sows tend to argue without injury) but still have a broken bond)
 
Piggies&buns said:
It’s good they’ve gone back together, do keep an eye on them over the coming two weeks though as it was essentially a territory invasion, you never know how things will go as they finalise the details of their bond

(Not drawing blood isn’t the benchmark - a bond can be dysfunctional and fail without blood ever being drawn. And that is even more vital to note in sows as it is much rarer for sows to have an actual blood drawing fight (boars tend to have an outright fight, sows tend to argue without injury) but still have a broken bond)
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Thank you, do you think its worth doing a full cage clean or maybe just swapping out the main noodle mats they slept on?
 
I really wouldn’t. At this moment in time the cage smells of both of them so they can see it at shared territory

If you remove any bedding then you are neutralising it, and while normally ok, if you do it now while they are somewhat settled, you could force them into new rounds of dominance in a new territory which would be best avoided.

When you do need to clean out the cage, don’t change out all bedding in one go. Make sure you leave some soiled bedding so they recognise it as their territory
 
Piggies&buns said:
I really wouldn’t. At this moment in time the cage smells of both of them so they can see it at shared territory

If you remove any bedding then you are neutralising it, and while normally ok, if you do it now while they are somewhat settled, you could force them into new rounds of dominance in a new territory which would be best avoided.

When you do need to clean out the cage, don’t change out all bedding in one go. Make sure you leave some soiled bedding so they recognise it as their territory
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Thanks for the advice x
 
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