Two boars fighting

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AnneElliot

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Hello. We got two boars in Jan. We were planning to get two females in March from a rescue centre but while I was away with work my daughter wore down my partner and I came home to find we had two boars living in my living room. For the last few months they have been a delight and got on very well. They love being handled. They are in an indoor hutch that meets the RSPCA guidelines for space. But on Tuesday they had a terrible fight and blood was drawn. (The submissive pig has decided not to be submissive any more). I have followed the very helpful bonding and behaviour posts and threads here but reintroductions all end badly. I have a horrible feeling they won’t be able to live together again. My daughter is distraught. I am taking them to the vets on Monday to make sure one isn’t unwell and to get their advice, though I am aware neutering won’t help. We don’t have space for two indoor cages. So we are considering giving one up to a rescue (which makes me cry every time I contemplate it) and neutering the other and in time introducing a young sow. I am so upset about this but want them to be happy and safe. Is there anything I am not thinking of?
 
I’m afraid once blood is drawn they won’t be happy together. Please don’t do any more reintroductions, they just don’t get along. Is the hutch a two floor where they could live on separate floors? Or could you sell and get two cages to sit side by side so they can interact through the bars? If none of those is feasible then I guess you would have to give one up...If you can manage two (stacked) cages, you could neuter them both and get them each a girlfriend.
 
Thank you for your response. We definitely couldn’t have two cages side by side for space reasons. We might be able to do stacked cages but would have to get rid of some furniture. But I am nervous about having four pigs. I would want to be sure we have the time and resources to look after them all well as they deserve.
 
piggieminder said:
Have a read through these guides for lots of useful information.
Behaviour, Bonding & Bereavement Guides
Sadly the recommended 120 x 60 cm minimum space recommended by the RSPCA is rarely enough for two young boars going into their teenage hormone spike dominance phase.
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Thank you. I have read this and it is useful. I can see they might need more space than we have provided, though their cage is a bit bigger than 120 x 60...
 
Welcome to the forum
Sorry that your boys have fallen out so badly.
It’s put you in a difficult situation.
Glad the forum threads have helped.
We’re here to support you whatever you decide to do
 
AnneElliot said:
Hello. We got two boars in Jan. We were planning to get two females in March from a rescue centre but while I was away with work my daughter wore down my partner and I came home to find we had two boars living in my living room. For the last few months they have been a delight and got on very well. They love being handled. They are in an indoor hutch that meets the RSPCA guidelines for space. But on Tuesday they had a terrible fight and blood was drawn. (The submissive pig has decided not to be submissive any more). I have followed the very helpful bonding and behaviour posts and threads here but reintroductions all end badly. I have a horrible feeling they won’t be able to live together again. My daughter is distraught. I am taking them to the vets on Monday to make sure one isn’t unwell and to get their advice, though I am aware neutering won’t help. We don’t have space for two indoor cages. So we are considering giving one up to a rescue (which makes me cry every time I contemplate it) and neutering the other and in time introducing a young sow. I am so upset about this but want them to be happy and safe. Is there anything I am not thinking of?
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Hi and welcome!

Unfortunately, once there has been a full-on fight with deep bites, this is the end of the road. They will never go back together again.

Would it be possible for you to have two cages on top of each other, so both boys can be neutered and in due time (i.e. 6 weeks after the neutering operation) paired up with a sow each? That means that each has got their own companion, so they do not need to be next to each other. In order to adopt from a rescue, the cages should be 2x4 ft minimum.
Here is a picture of my own set-up, which uses Ikea 75x150 cm linnmon tables that fit into the footprint of a 2x4 C&C grid cage which is the preferred rehoming size for a mixed gender pair, just to give you an idea for a possible solution for your dilemma; my own layout is catering for a lot more guinea pigs of course.
You would need to cable-tie the upper cage grids, but this gives you easy access to both pairs with no larger footprint than a single cage. I clean the lower cages by lifting the table slightly with my shoulder to remove, clean and replace any bedding.
There are of course other options for stacking cages. As I am not the youngest, fairly easy access is important for me, as is flexibility for the layout to accommodate my guinea pigs in their changing constellations.

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Going by my own experiences, giving any piggy of yours away is the most heart-wrenching experience and will leave you with massive feelings of guilt even when you know that you have absolutely done the best for your piggy. If you can work out a solution that allows you to hang onto both boys, I would urge you to go for it!
I really feel for you. Teenage boys that are hit by a sudden hormone spike when you are not around and you come onto the scene too late can be totally upsetting!
 
Merab's Slave said:
Welcome to the forum
Sorry that your boys have fallen out so badly.
It’s put you in a difficult situation.
Glad the forum threads have helped.
We’re here to support you whatever you decide to do
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Thank you. We are all very sad.
 
Wiebke said:
Hi and welcome!

Unfortunately, once there has been a full-on fight with deep bites, this is the end of the road. They will never go back together again.

Would it be possible for you to have two cages on top of each other, so both boys can be neutered and in due time (i.e. 6 weeks after the neutering operation) paired up with a sow each? That means that each has got their own companion, so they do not need to be next to each other. In order to adopt from a rescue, the cages should be 2x4 ft minimum.
Here is a picture of my own set-up, which uses Ikea 75x150 cm linnmon tables that fit into the footprint of a 2x4 C&C grid cage which is the preferred rehoming size for a mixed gender pair, just to give you an idea for a possible solution for your dilemma; my own layout is catering for a lot more guinea pigs of course.
You would need to cable-tie the upper cage grids, but this gives you easy access to both pairs with no larger footprint than a single cage. I clean the lower cages by lifting the table slightly with my shoulder to remove, clean and replace any bedding.
There are of course other options for stacking cages. As I am not the youngest, fairly easy access is important for me, as is flexibility for the layout to accommodate my guinea pigs in their changing constellations.

View attachment 109019


Going by my own experiences, giving any piggy of yours away is the most heart-wrenching experience and will leave you with massive feelings of guilt even when you know that you have absolutely done the best for your piggy. If you can work out a solution that allows you to hang onto both boys, I would urge you to go for it!
I really feel for you. Teenage boys that are hit by a sudden hormone spike when you are not around and you come onto the scene too late can be totally upsetting!
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Thank you so much for this. I haven’t got my head round c and c cages and we would have to get rid of some furniture to accommodate this kind of set up. But will think about it. We have a 2 x 4 hutch at the moment.
 
AnneElliot said:
Thank you so much for this. I haven’t got my head round c and c cages and we would have to get rid of some furniture to accommodate this kind of set up. But will think about it. We have a 2 x 4 hutch at the moment.
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You can stack hutches as well! ;)
 
I suppose one of my concerns about having two more pigs is bonding the new sows. Having seen bonding go so wrong a couple of months down the line with these two, I feel nervous. Plus I would want to be sure we could look after 4 and give them as much time and attention as they deserve.
 
I think sow and boar pairing are overall better. You could always see about taking them dating to a local rescue. It’s much better for them to pick their own friend.

I understand your worries about not being sure if you can give them the time and attention they all need. I’m not sure what to advise, but you know what’s in the best interest for both your piggies and yourselves. Good luck deciding, and sorry for the position you find yourself in.
 
AnneElliot said:
I suppose one of my concerns about having two more pigs is bonding the new sows. Having seen bonding gone so wrong months down the line with these two, I feel nervous. Plus I would want to be sure we could look after 4 and give them as much time and attention as they deserve.
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You will end up with two pairs that will have to stay separate. There is now way around that!

For the dating problem: Most of our recommended rescues offer rescue dating to allow character compatibility and mutual liking, which are key to any successful bond, to come into play. You will return with a new mate only if acceptance has happened and you will have the rescue to fall back on at any time you run into a problem with the bond. Any of our recommended rescues is conducting a full pregnancy watch for incoming sows (on top of a mandatory quarantine and any necessary vet care), so you do not have to worry about adopting a potentially mis-sexed or already pregnant sow as an added bonus. Adopted guinea pigs from a good standard rescue also don't come with hidden guests and problems. they are perfectly healthy when they are put up for adoption.

The big difference between mixed and boar bonds is that that mixed pairs once they have made up their mind that they want to be together hardly ever fall out. Acceptance of neutered boars by younger sows of ideal pup bearing age is very high; you totally have the social and biological instincts on your side! :)
Boars, sows or mixed pairs; babies or adults?

As long as your guinea pigs are happily paired up, you do not have to worry about the attention. Cage cleaning is less than double the time, and so is feeding etc.

PS: Because of my set-up I only have neutered boars, mostly living with 1-13 sows (at the moment with 1-3 sows) plus one boar pair. A fair number of the 'husboars' are fallen out no longer wanted children's pets that are living a very happy boar life indeed! Once you have seen a boar around sows, you will find that it gives their life a whole new dimension. But this is something you need to experience yourself when a boy discovers that heaven exists on earth... :)
 
Hello and welcome,

Hope you can sort out the problem with your naughty boys, please let us all know how you get on x Boar relationships with one another are very complex, I’m still learning and I’ve had my Bill and Ted for 4 years! Luckily their odd spats have never brought blood, feel so sorry for you, not an easy position to be in, do what’s best for you and your family x
 
Bill & Ted said:
Hello and welcome,

Hope you can sort out the problem with your naughty boys, please let us all know how you get on x Boar relationships with one another are very complex, I’m still learning and I’ve had my Bill and Ted for 4 years! Luckily their odd spats have never brought blood, feel so sorry for you, not an easy position to be in, do what’s best for you and your family x
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Thank you. Don’t know the vet visit tomorrow will much help but good to get them checked over, then we will have to decide what to do :-(
 
Welcome to the forum and I am sorry to read your predicament. I can see you are an extremely caring owner who is putting the pigs needs first and when that involves the potential of handing one to rescue that can be an extremely difficult thing to do. I have only ever handed one piggy back and she was only with me for 2 weeks but refused to bond with any of mine yet I did find it so hard to hand her back as I had already formed an emotional attachment and just couldn't have a further cage and a 6th pig to keep her company.

Whilst time with the pigs, cleaning and feeding doesn't take much longer when you have 4 there is always the cost. Daily costs again don't increase dramatically but vet costs can mount up and for me it feels like we can't have a point where just one of them gets ill. If I end up going to the vets with one you can almost guarantee another will come down with something else shortly after and it can become expensive.

Take your time in making any decisions because you need to be able to do what is right for your piggy and for your family and that is different for all of us.
 
Lady Kelly said:
Welcome to the forum and I am sorry to read your predicament. I can see you are an extremely caring owner who is putting the pigs needs first and when that involves the potential of handing one to rescue that can be an extremely difficult thing to do. I have only ever handed one piggy back and she was only with me for 2 weeks but refused to bond with any of mine yet I did find it so hard to hand her back as I had already formed an emotional attachment and just couldn't have a further cage and a 6th pig to keep her company.

Whilst time with the pigs, cleaning and feeding doesn't take much longer when you have 4 there is always the cost. Daily costs again don't increase dramatically but vet costs can mount up and for me it feels like we can't have a point where just one of them gets ill. If I end up going to the vets with one you can almost guarantee another will come down with something else shortly after and it can become expensive.

Take your time in making any decisions because you need to be able to do what is right for your piggy and for your family and that is different for all of us.
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Thank you and thanks everyone for being so understanding. The potential vets bills for 4 pets is a big consideration for us as I have a disabled child and he requires a lot of costly equipment and therapy.
 
AnneElliot said:
Thank you and thanks everyone for being so understanding. The potential vets bills for 4 pets is a big consideration for us as I have a disabled child and he requires a lot of costly equipment and therapy.
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I find it's not just the vets bills themselves that are the issue but the time and emotional energy linked. I have to say that once when I was at 2 pigs and ended up syringe feeding one for over 2 weeks with numerous vets visits for her to still pass away I was ready to give up pigs because I was exhausted. Obviously I didn't give up on piggies and now am back up to a group of four but it can take it's emotional toll too.
 
Lady Kelly said:
I find it's not just the vets bills themselves that are the issue but the time and emotional energy linked. I have to say that once when I was at 2 pigs and ended up syringe feeding one for over 2 weeks with numerous vets visits for her to still pass away I was ready to give up pigs because I was exhausted. Obviously I didn't give up on piggies and now am back up to a group of four but it can take it's emotional toll too.
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I can totally understand this. I have never had guinea pigs before but have had dogs, birds, rabbits and hamsters and when they are ill it is the absolute pits...
 
Thank you everyone. I haven’t attempted any more introductions and have them in two separate play pens next to each other in the living room in the day so they can exercise and see each other. Will see what the vet says today. I fear we will have to part with one and get a sow in the course of time to bond with the remaining pig. Thanks for the advice. All very sad...
 
Keep in touch and let’s us know how you get on, bear in mind that whatever decision you make it’s the right one for you x
 
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