Underweight, Post Surgery, Diarrhea

[Olivitree]

Hey Folks,

Short version: What can I do to balance fattening up a piggy and stopping her diarrhea recurring?
Food i have at my disposal is hay, pellets, baby food, veg and grass.
I have two healthy pigs I have been giving the poops of to my unhealthy pig along side probiotics.
She is not on anti biotics but is post surgery from a big nasty lump we were trying to prep for surgery for a few months which did bleed some and took quite a bit out of her.

She is 6.5 years old, was about 950 to 900 grams, down to 700 to 750 grams over the course of a number of months and a surgery, not eating much hard food or veg on her own volition, keen on hay and grass, Currently being hand fed mushed pellets (Burgess and tesco brands), plenty of hay and being syringe fed extra water.

HELP! How do I balance this, get her poops right AND get her gaining weight again?

Long version:
So, complicated situation. I have a 6 and a half year old guinea pig, she had a ridiculous sebaceous cyst for a long time, we were trying to reduce it down in size so it wasn't SO massive for surgery, no luck, so she now has a 2 or 3 inch long scar, its healing brilliantly, BUT!

She went done from about 950 to 850 grams over the course of a few months while we were trying to deal with this lump, it was a stressful time for her in more ways than one, constant anti biotics and bleeds because the cystic material was so easily disturbed and she wouldn't stop trying to eat it.

After the surgery, she dropped another 60 or so grams, presumably mostly lump, fluids and food as she was out for a number of hours and didn't start eating properly until she came back into my care, poops started being squishy from that point, first few were basically water but hardened up enough that i wasn't worried.

Anti biotics for about 5 days after that, her poos i noticed weren't quite recovering, I kept it under control with poops from the other piggies and pro biotics but i seem to have now lost controll of it, i can get her roughly back on track but then she just goes straight back to squishy poops if she has anything green. She also isn't keen on food bar hay and a few nibbles of veg (which immediately set her off again) so I'm having to force feed her mushed up Burgess pellets JUST to keep her weight stable.

SO, my issue is, how do i balance this.

The vet suggested organix baby food, but thats fruit (just fruit its the non dairy non anything but fruit version) which is going to upset her gut, I need to fatten her back up again but with her not eating much herself and only really pellets at my disposal, which I also know can cause gut issues, I'm not sure what to do!

We've spent so long fighting this damn lump i'm not prepared to let her go and I dont think she's prepared either, she's a tough old lady, still feisty and chatty as ever, wound is nearly healed up 2 weeks down the line and bar any other food, she's still keen on hay, just seemingly nothing else useful to her weight!

 

[Adelle]

Hi!

Firstly, your girl is elderly so she has done amazingly well so far!

Is her weight continuing on a downward trend, or just staying at that low weight? If its continuing downwards, please step in with syringe feeding to get adequate nutrition into her, and in turn weight. If she is staying at the low weight, you can syringe her just little and often- critical care can be great at boosting the appetite.
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Please stay off all veg at the moment, and continue with the probiotics. You should supplement some vitamin c too.

Does she have pain relief? I would imagine she would still be pretty sore, which can cause a loss of appetite etc.

Has she had her teeth checked? The period of inappetance could have sparked some overgrown molars, which would make her unable to eat pellets etc.

 

[Elwickcavies]

I know you said she doesn't much like hard food, but I have had some success with pea flakes (basically squashed dried peas) for my older boy, who finds it harder to keep weight on these days. He absolutely loves them and they are quite high in calories. If she doesn't take them as is, they are easy to crush up and add to the syringe food. It may be worth a try.

 

[Olivitree]

@Adelle Her weight is fine as long as I keep up the syringe fed food, I don't think its remaining stable at the moment, particularly as i'm having to lay off the veg.
I had her in a separate box with just hay, hard food and a syringe feed before bed over night and her poops are looking a little less soggy and have shape already, I'll keep her quarantined until her poops are perfect so she can't sneak snacks of veg from the other two.
She was on pain relief but the vet was so impressed with her progress at the first check up after surgery (5 days after I believe) that he said she'd only need a further 3 days worth and that seems to have panned out, she's off them at the moment and doesn't seem bothered by the operation site at all, its just a thin indented line with two glued scabby bits at either end now, the rest of the glue/scab was falling off over the past few days. (he did glue and stitches).
I'll look into the critical care, anything to get her appetite up and running again would be fantastic at this point!
Dental wise, I don't think it was that long ago she had her molars checked and weren't seen as an issue, she has had an abscess in her jaw that resulted in a lower front incisor weakening and snapping repeatedly, but that seems to have been resolved and the tooth seems fairly strong currently, she also split an upper incisor some how but like wise, during the surgery they trimmed that right back with the hopes that the split would grow out so that shouldn't be a problem anymore but I'm not sure if the gum is still sore around that point. Molars were not spotted as a problem in the past and I think she was eating fairly normally before the surgery, I may take her back in for another check up soon though so I can get those checked, particularly if her poops don't return to normal in the next day or so/eating doesn't return to normal. Though, I presume she wouldn't be that keen on hay if her molars were over grown either? she's still pretty keen on it and it seems to be her favourite food over anything else at the moment.

@Elwickcavies I'll see if I can find some crushed peas! I presume I wont be able to give them to her while she's unwell though as i'm guessing even dried they might upset her stomach again at this point?

 

[Wiebke]

Have you tried mushed up pellets and enticing her to eat a bit of fresh herbs?

Please do not think about fattening up a post-op guinea pig with diarrhea! It is not going to work. The lost weight will come on sometime on its own on a good normal diet after she is well in herself again and her body has settled down - depending on the severity of the op and post-op complication, that can take months.

What antibiotic is your guinea pig on? Any antibiotic also has an impact on the gut bacteria; some guinea pigs react to it stronger, the same as they can react stronger GA drugs. If the diarrhea is persistent, I would speak to the vet about perhaps changing the AB. Give a pinch of probiotic 1-2 hours after giving the antibiotic. If your guinea pig has got a healthy companion, I would also recommend trying to help re-stock the guts with fresh, moist poos from a healthy companion. soak them in a little bit of water and then syringe the water. This may be a bit gross, but it mimic natural behaviour.

Have you tried fibreplex? that can sometimes help to stabilise a dodgy post-op digestion. It also contains a probiotic.

 

[Adelle]

@Adelle Her weight is fine as long as I keep up the syringe fed food, I don't think its remaining stable at the moment, particularly as i'm having to lay off the veg.
I had her in a separate box with just hay, hard food and a syringe feed before bed over night and her poops are looking a little less soggy and have shape already, I'll keep her quarantined until her poops are perfect so she can't sneak snacks of veg from the other two.
She was on pain relief but the vet was so impressed with her progress at the first check up after surgery (5 days after I believe) that he said she'd only need a further 3 days worth and that seems to have panned out, she's off them at the moment and doesn't seem bothered by the operation site at all, its just a thin indented line with two glued scabby bits at either end now, the rest of the glue/scab was falling off over the past few days. (he did glue and stitches).
I'll look into the critical care, anything to get her appetite up and running again would be fantastic at this point!
Dental wise, I don't think it was that long ago she had her molars checked and weren't seen as an issue, she has had an abscess in her jaw that resulted in a lower front incisor weakening and snapping repeatedly, but that seems to have been resolved and the tooth seems fairly strong currently, she also split an upper incisor some how but like wise, during the surgery they trimmed that right back with the hopes that the split would grow out so that shouldn't be a problem anymore but I'm not sure if the gum is still sore around that point. Molars were not spotted as a problem in the past and I think she was eating fairly normally before the surgery, I may take her back in for another check up soon though so I can get those checked, particularly if her poops don't return to normal in the next day or so/eating doesn't return to normal. Though, I presume she wouldn't be that keen on hay if her molars were over grown either? she's still pretty keen on it and it seems to be her favourite food over anything else at the moment.

@Elwickcavies I'll see if I can find some crushed peas! I presume I wont be able to give them to her while she's unwell though as i'm guessing even dried they might upset her stomach again at this point?

She sounds like she has a wonderful care from a very vigilant owner!

I'd keep her with her companions as this will help recovery. Remove the other pigs for veggy time so she isnt getting any, that way she will have company.

Just a thought, u said your vet clipped her inscisor- is she able to pick up food? Sometimes if the inscisors are too short, picking up pellets can be an issue.

The critical care will help her weight stabilise and often stimulates the appetite too. Your vet should stock this, or recovery sachets which is ulimately the same thing. Opt for the recovery plus, as this contains vitamin c for piggies whereas normal recovery doesnt.

 

[Olivitree]

@Wiebke I suppose its more that I'm concerned she's not eating enough to sustain herself, I think her empty stomach weight (jsut before I hand feed her) is about 700 grams, she looks very tired all the time today and I'm having to keep a hot water bottle in the cage for her or she gets very chilly (she does have an end of the cage that is cool if she needs it also) so I'm feeling her weight just isn't enough to get her through this. She only wants to eat hay at this point or veg, and she cant have veg so i have serious concerns.

She was on baytril, I had her on probiotic while she was on it also. She was mostly ok on the drug it seemed to be the operation that knocked her gut so hard. But at the post op check up afterward the vet said to take her straight off it as she didn't need it anymore and the operation site was all tidy and sealed and healing well.

Ooo that was the name of it! I knew there was something very specific we had used previously for a post opp piggy but I was about 12 at the time so I couldn't remember for the life of me what it was called, I'll look into picking up some fiberplex ASAP, very worried about her having this digestive issue while she's such a low weight!


@Adelle the incisor was split vertically, about a quarter of its width had split away so she still has most of that tooth left, doesn't seem to be the problem, today though I noticed when she was drinking occasionally she'd stop and sort of look like she was trying to get something out of her mouth, think I will get him to check up her molars again just in case.

I'll get her back in with the other piggies I think she will appreciate it, though the other two aren't going to be happy having their veg cut! (they're both a hefty 1250ish grams so they can afford it, little chubsters!)

I've ordered some recovery food it should be here soon.

Thank you for the advice both of you its so helpful having help with this it can feel pretty overwhelming some times not exactly knowing which way to go!

 

[Olivitree]

Poop update! Poops have reformed, they look almost normal again, her weight this morning was 695 (eep!) and shes eating her poops again. They look quite small but I expected that as shes probably only eaten hay and possibly some hard food over night and this morning. They all look kind of sticky and are varying sizes, but they're normal ish shape, bit tear drop shaped but they look fairly smooth, so no yeast problem?

How should I progress? should I keep her off the veg for another day? Recovery feeds and such should be turning up tomorrow.

Edit:

Ok... the first lot were fine and looked normal ish shape and a bit more normal solidity then just now she did a non-shaped poop that looked pretty wet and then kind of ended with a slightly yellowy browny fluid which she seems really keen to eat... I'm stumped now, I have literally fed her nothing so far she's just been doing her own thing. just they hay and the pellets this morning @_@

 

[Olivitree]

Hey folks (sorry for posting many posts but situation changing quite dramatically) She appears to be back to normal poops, I haven't put her back on grass yet but she's eating lettuce and cucumber with out any poor gut reactions so far.

What can I now do to start getting her weight back up? she's now at 690 and still has a fairly low appetite bar hay and just picks at most other foods. Shall I just go with the recovery food or is there anything else gut friendly I can look at to start getting her to a sensible weight as I think fruit or rich veg is probably out of the question, she seems very sensitive to it.
I'm intending to get her slowly back onto grass soon as presumably at this time of year its probably quite good for starting to gain some weight.

 

[Adelle]

The fact the cyst surgery site has healed, her guts are calming down yet shes still not eating properly i'd strongly suggest having her teeth checked. The period of low appetite when she was going through treatment for the cyst, the surgery and the antibiotics etc is enough to cause her to have dental spurs (the weight loss reflects the inappetance).

Teeth can be checked consciously but it isnt always thorough enough. Id stick to the veg shes on just now, dont add in anymore an stay away from baby puree etc. Stick to the syringe feeding, critical care or recovery, and offer her lots of different hays. Keep her on probiotics as this will help the gut.

If it turns out to be a dental issue, which i suspect is a possibility, the cat and rabbit clinic in northamptom can succesfully do conscious dentals- which would be better for your elderly girl.

See what the vet says first. I hope they get to the bottom of it soon x