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Unexplained Loss Of Weight

Florrieberry

Florrieberry

Teenage Guinea Pig
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
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Location
Wirral
Hiya, any ideas please
Harvey, neutered male, maybe 4 years old, (could be more but vet didn't think he looks like an old piggy) lives with 4 sows.
Full of energy and good appetite, losing weight last 6-9 months (was 1080g now 830g)
Had bloods done, stool samples, x-ray, tried anti-thyroid (vidalta) but no benefit.
The only tiny change on x-ray was slightly arthritic hind knees with a tiny calcified spot in a tendon from an old injury. No pain and def no loss of mobility!
Only thing vet could think of was to try 1 week trial of metacam to see if maybe he has achey knees. Just weaning off Vidalta.
Vet is exotic specialist but running out of ideas..?
Thanks

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Florrieberry said:
Hiya, any ideas please
Harvey, neutered male, maybe 4 years old, (could be more but vet didn't think he looks like an old piggy) lives with 4 sows.
Full of energy and good appetite, losing weight last 6-9 months (was 1080g now 830g)
Had bloods done, stool samples, x-ray, tried anti-thyroid (vidalta) but no benefit.
The only tiny change on x-ray was slightly arthritic hind knees with a tiny calcified spot in a tendon from an old injury. No pain and def no loss of mobility!
Only thing vet could think of was to try 1 week trial of metacam to see if maybe he has achey knees. Just weaning off Vidalta.
Vet is exotic specialist but running out of ideas..?
Thanks

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I think you’ve covered all angles.
Some piggies do begin to gradually lose a bit of weight as they age. X
 
Probably because of old age.

That happened to my first piggy. Though we never weighed her (I regret that now, but again she was my first piggy), I noticed she lost weight as she was aging. This started around 6-7 years I think. I think your guinea pig may be older than 4 years, but if he’s that energetic then I don’t know.
 
Dog Cow said:
Probably because of old age.

That happened to my first piggy. Though we never weighed her (I regret that now, but again she was my first piggy), I noticed she lost weight as she was aging. This started around 6-7 years I think. I think your guinea pig may be older than 4 years, but if he’s that energetic then I don’t know.
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I asked the vet that, s we don't really know how old he is exactly but she didn't think he seemed like an old piggy She did say if it continued we could try steroids to keep the weight on Apparently she has known a piggy continue for 2 years with that.
 
What's Vidalta?

Long term use of Metacam for pigs with arthritis is quite common and surprisingly helps alot. As they're prey animals they hide pain signs better then other animals so she might be in a bit of pain despite not showing any signs.

Weight loss is common as they get older. I usually offer them more food, and a varied supply of hay. If they don't suffer with calcium issues then I increase their pellets and offer Readigrass too.
 
Jaycey said:
What's Vidalta?

Long term use of Metacam for pigs with arthritis is quite common and surprisingly helps alot. As they're prey animals they hide pain signs better then other animals so she might be in a bit of pain despite not showing any signs.

Weight loss is common as they get older. I usually offer them more food, and a varied supply of hay. If they don't suffer with calcium issues then I increase their pellets and offer Readigrass too.
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Thanks Vidalta is Carmibazole.
They get fresh veg and pellets 2 x day, and have a variety of pellets so no boredom can set in. There are always a few pellets left over so obviously there are enough available Same with hay, 4 big hay trays always full, emptied and cleaned completely every night, topped up in morning with "special hay" in 2 trays in pen every morning. ( vary btwn.. Readigrass , 5aday, alfalfa King,) He gets extra nibbles a lot of the time I go past pen into kitchen... He runs to end of pen and stands up asking! I just feel quite helpless cos he doesn't behave like an old piggy!
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
So no weight gain whilst being on videlta? If the piggy isn't hyperthyroid, the videlta would push him to being hypothyroid, which would likely cause weight gain. Is his weight stable, or continuing to drop?
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Slowly dropping.
Started with 2.5mg Vidalta (1/4 of 10mg tab) alt days, then increased to daily. At one point it looked like it was slowly starting to creep up, just a few grams per day, but that stopped and started dropping again. So now weaning off.
The only effect it had was when the dose increased to daily he was maybe a bit more laid back and not so active but no apparent change to appetite or begging for food if I went to kitchen.
Do you have any research papers re steroids which support their non use please so I can discuss with vet?
 
Florrieberry said:
Slowly dropping.
Started with 2.5mg Vidalta (1/4 of 10mg tab) alt days, then increased to daily. At one point it looked like it was slowly starting to creep up, just a few grams per day, but that stopped and started dropping again. So now weaning off.
The only effect it had was when the dose increased to daily he was maybe a bit more laid back and not so active but no apparent change to appetite or begging for food if I went to kitchen.
Do you have any research papers re steroids which support their non use please so I can discuss with vet?
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I will ask Simon, when I see him on Friday, if he can point me in the direction of any research papers. Basically the use of steroids causes profound immunosuppressive effects.
 
furryfriends (TEAS) said:
I will ask Simon, when I see him on Friday, if he can point me in the direction of any research papers. Basically the use of steroids causes profound immunosuppressive effects.
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Of course my next question would be.. What else is there left to try? I can't just watch him lose weight until he dies, with no known problem. If he had a tumour I could understand and accept that but there is nothing to find.
 
All tests done as per post at top, plus a tiny spike filed on back teeth.
 
He seems to be eating well, he is def always ready for fresh veg, and extra veggie treats...and of course hay. He comes asking if I pass the pen to go to the fridge! Don't know about pellets as I am out in day so don't know who eats them.
As far as i know it was full faecal screen, don't know exactly what bloods were tested for.
If you could tell me what those things might indicate in piggy I can check with vet. I email over his weights every week.
Thanks
 
I had a trio of piggies lived together for ages, all of a sudden he dropped a lot of weight. We decided to try one more thing before we took him to the vet. We separated him at food time & he piled on the weight. We don't know if it was because he was being slow. Or being pushed out. It could be that Florrie, what have you got to lose.
 
Steroids are a bit of a no no in guinea pigs. I'm afraid I don't know any exotics vet who would advocate using them unless they know exactly what they are treating. I would be suspicious of renal problems in your little piggie. We see a large number of older guinea pigs with unexplained weight loss to have kidney problems, and often blood samples come back as normal. The only way we seem to be able to see how the kidneys are is to ultrasound them. I would really consider this before jumping in with steroids.

Steroids cause a profound amount of immunosuppression and many guinea pigs will already have concurrent lung infections which will easily flare up. They are also known to cause a reduction in white blood cells which will cause more susceptibility to infections etc. It is mentioned in many textbooks and advice from specialist exotics vets.

If I were you I would personally do the following things:
- a full abdominal ultrasound especially looking at the kidney structure to check for kidney issues
- potentially a quick heart scan at the same time to rule out any heart disease
- get your vet to check no lymph nodes are up to rule out things like lymphoma
- get your vet to check for a thyroid in the neck region
- consider a longer course of thyroid medications (and maybe try methimazole instead of carbimazole - tend to see a better result with this)
- get some extra food into your little one, supplemental syringe feeds, barley hoops, oat hays and bran may help put some weight onto him

On a side note knee arthritis is a very common finding in older guinea pigs, if severe then I would consider long term metacam (depending on how the kidneys look)

Hope this helps. Good luck with him.
Abi
 
Abi_nurse said:
Steroids are a bit of a no no in guinea pigs. I'm afraid I don't know any exotics vet who would advocate using them unless they know exactly what they are treating. I would be suspicious of renal problems in your little piggie. We see a large number of older guinea pigs with unexplained weight loss to have kidney problems, and often blood samples come back as normal. The only way we seem to be able to see how the kidneys are is to ultrasound them. I would really consider this before jumping in with steroids.

Steroids cause a profound amount of immunosuppression and many guinea pigs will already have concurrent lung infections which will easily flare up. They are also known to cause a reduction in white blood cells which will cause more susceptibility to infections etc. It is mentioned in many textbooks and advice from specialist exotics vets.

If I were you I would personally do the following things:
- a full abdominal ultrasound especially looking at the kidney structure to check for kidney issues
- potentially a quick heart scan at the same time to rule out any heart disease
- get your vet to check no lymph nodes are up to rule out things like lymphoma
- get your vet to check for a thyroid in the neck region
- consider a longer course of thyroid medications (and maybe try methimazole instead of carbimazole - tend to see a better result with this)
- get some extra food into your little one, supplemental syringe feeds, barley hoops, oat hays and bran may help put some weight onto him

On a side note knee arthritis is a very common finding in older guinea pigs, if severe then I would consider long term metacam (depending on how the kidneys look)

Hope this helps. Good luck with him.
Abi
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Thank you for your reply .
He has been checked for lumps & bumps already. We are going to try B12 which would assist with a possible malabsorption syndrome, as vet has previous experience of this and Harvey is eating well. They also have experience of a piggy who lived for 2 years on Nandrolone (a different group of steroids) They are quite spoiled piggies and get some "special" hay every morning, instead of their usual bale, but I don't have oat hay so will get some of that. What are barley hoops? And why bran?
If no change with B12 will discuss kidney scan.
Thank you
 
Yes nandrolone is an anabolic steroid, still cagey about its use but in the end it is down to you and your vet to decide what to do, he may suffer no ill effects but personally wouldn't go for it.

Barley hoops are simply made of barley, they're higher in energy and carbohydrates as is bran which will help bulk out piggies. They should be fed sparingly but are good to add into the diet if your trying to get some weight gain. You can search online for smaller bags people sell such as eBay.
Barley Rings | Dodson & Horrell

sport_billy said:
@Abi_nurse so lovely to see you back on forum. Hope things are well
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Thanks. Might not get much chance to pop back but will try to. Things are okay, had a bad year for the piggies last year but have quite a few youngsters popcorning about now.

x
 
Abi_nurse said:
Yes nandrolone is an anabolic steroid, still cagey about its use but in the end it is down to you and your vet to decide what to do, he may suffer no ill effects but personally wouldn't go for it.

Barley hoops are simply made of barley, they're higher in energy and carbohydrates as is bran which will help bulk out piggies. They should be fed sparingly but are good to add into the diet if your trying to get some weight gain. You can search online for smaller bags people sell such as eBay.
Barley Rings | Dodson & Horrell



Thanks. Might not get much chance to pop back but will try to. Things are okay, had a bad year for the piggies last year but have quite a few youngsters popcorning about now.

x
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Thank you, had a look for Barley rings locally but non found so will look online. I think there is a local seller with oat hay. Will be trying B12 then maybe look into kidney scan if vet feels it will show more than x-ray Fingers crossed!
 
Abi_nurse said:
Yes nandrolone is an anabolic steroid, still cagey about its use but in the end it is down to you and your vet to decide what to do, he may suffer no ill effects but personally wouldn't go for it.

Barley hoops are simply made of barley, they're higher in energy and carbohydrates as is bran which will help bulk out piggies. They should be fed sparingly but are good to add into the diet if your trying to get some weight gain. You can search online for smaller bags people sell such as eBay.
Barley Rings | Dodson & Horrell



Thanks. Might not get much chance to pop back but will try to. Things are okay, had a bad year for the piggies last year but have quite a few youngsters popcorning about now.

x
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Good to hear you've some youngsters cheering you up!
 
Abi_nurse said:
Good luck with him. Let us know how you get on whatever you choose to do.

x
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We have tried B12 but still continuing to lose weight. His blood sugar is normal. Now trying bio-lapis probiotics (Dont know how I'm going to get that down him.. He wouldn't touch food with it on last night I can syringe at home but the piggies are due to go boarding on Sunday )
Vet said kidney probs would have shown up in blood tests.
Really sad & frustrated now he is 760g and was 1200g.Still eats like a horse and full of energy. Run out of ideas..
 
I’ve just been through this, I’ve got a very similar story. My 3.5 year old sow showed weight loss starting from August last year. Over the course of 6 months she had a dental, xray, ultrasound, urine tests, faecal tests and full blood screen. We tried a couple of long courses of antibiotics (baytril and sulfatrim) and a course of loxicom.The blood test showed anaemia and for a while the loxicom/antibiotic combo seemed to help things, but we never found a cause for the anaemia and her weight just kept dropping until she was hovering between 500-600g.

Eventually my exotic specialist emailed the RVC with the full case, and they replied that there are some types of hyperthyroidism that wouldn’t show on a normal thyroid blood test, but more likely they are seeing increasing numbers of pigs with normal blood screens but fairly advanced renal disease. Apparently there is another more accurate blood test you can do to tell if this is the case that looks at the ratio between two things, but I can’t remember what it was called. I decided not to go ahead with that test because the sedation seemed too risky for a pig who was just skin and bone, and there would be no treatment. Unfortunately shortly afterwards we found one morning that she’d passed away in the night. She’d been bright and happy in herself for the duration of her illness and in the end it was extremely quick.

I’m sorry I don’t have a more positive outcome to tell you, but maybe you could pursue the more accurate thyroid tests?
 
I would still push for an abdominal ultra sound.
Many kidney problems will show up in the standard blood tests, but not all, and an ultrasound will be able to offer a proper view of the kidneys, and may show up issues that are just not detected in blood work.
 
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