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Unknow cause of death in whole cage

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tamarindtouch

tamarindtouch

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My daughter went out to her cages before and found 2 mothers, 8 babies and a pregnant guinea pig all dead. She is absolutely devestated as she also lost 2 rabbits yesterday and now has 9 baby rabbits to care for. She said the guinea pigs where fine this morning. The guinea pigs in with her rabbits are fine but all the ones in the other hutch are all dead with no signs of why they have died. The only survivor of the trauma is a one little guinea pig that was born blind in one eye a couple of days ago. Would anyone know of anything that could wipe out so many animals in just a few hours without showing any sort of symptons?
 
Sorry for your losses...

The only thing you can do to indefinitely find out is post-mortems... And I'm warning you now... They get pricey...!
Any diarrhea or blood in the cage...?
Has there been any deterioration in the pigs over the last few days/weeks/months...? Symptoms such as snotty nose, glassy eyes, noisy cheast, diarrhoea or soft stools, blood in urine, squeaking when passing stools or urine, loss of apetite...?
Were any new pigs added to your group recently...? And if so were they quarantined...?
This is something that quite frequently happen in the breeding situation and other set ups...
I've heard of several mysterious deaths of pigs in large groups over the last year...
Really, if you want to find out what's happened you need to get post-mortems done on the bodies. And find what it is for treatment for the babies if it's needed...
x
 
Have you looked at what they were last fed ?
Maybe have a look in there cage, see what bugs or bits and bob's are just laying around, i'm not really sure what to recommend other than go to post-mortum person but then again that's very costly, it depends how much you really want to know.

I noticed you mentioned some of your guinea pigs live in with the rabbits, this is often not recommended due to the high risk of damage that can be 'caused from the rabbit to the guinea pig, so if you could i'd recommend that you move them into a seperate or something.
 
the pigs could have caught bordatella from the rabbits if their hutch was close (it lives in all rabbits and is lethal to pigs but harmless to rabbits) which could explain why theyve all died so suddenly

so sorry for your daughters losses xx it must be absolutely awful to find everyone dead :/
 
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That's what we can't work out. There doesn't seem to be any blood, mucus or anything. It looks like they have just dropped on the spot. My daughter moved them out of the the large pen they where in with the rabbits yesterday to keep them safe as she wasn't sure why the rabbits had died. The 2 rabbits just seem to have dropped on the spot as well. In fact she was cleaning out the pen when one hopped past her into a box. She said when she turned around he had just dropped and she grabbed him in a panic, but he was gone in less than half an hour. This morning she cleaned out the cage and gave them fresh beding, food and water, then about an hour later took her sister down to show her the beautiful new babies, they where still all fine. A few hours later when she went back they where all dead except 1 of the babies who was down the end of the cage by himself.

The 3 guinea pigs that she left with the rabbits seem to be fine. It has only affected the guinea pigs that where moved into a cage by themselves with no rabbits.

I tried to do a search to see if there was anything that would affect both guinea pigs and rabbits to make them die so fast but have come up with nothing.

My daughter is in her late 20's and has 2 children, but her animals are like her babies as well. In fact if you go to visit her 9 times out of 10 you will find her either sitting in the pen with them or virtually in 1 of the cages. They have gotten her through some really hard times in the last year. She is so worried that she is going to loose them all, plus she is now trying to feed 9 2 week old rabbits and a 1 week old guinea pig. So also trying to work out what is best to give them as well.
 
Blimey thats awfull, you must get pm`s done, do NOT have contact with anyone else that keeps rabbits/guineas or you could pass it on to their animals,did anyone else have contact with them?
 
Hand rearing wise... If you pop in to the vets and get some royal canin baby cat milk... That's the best stuff for hand rearing... I've used it several times now...
I find syringe feeding with a small teat on the end works best for me... Some people prefer droppers or soaking it in bread for them to suck it off...
Feeding times for the bunnies... Should be twice a day... Preferably 12 hours appart... Sorry don't know the amounts off the top of my head...
To check the bunnies have had enough food check there tummies are harder and warm... That generally is a good way of telling they have been fed enough:..
Guinea pig feeding... Should be every two hours through out the day and night and let him have as much as he wants to take...
I'm not much help for what caused your piggies losses... But I can hand rear successfully...
If you need anyhelp with the hand rearing side of things I'll pop you my phone number over and you can give me a bell if needed... 07773 940460

Hope everything starts looking up for you...
x
 
Might be an idea to contact a member on here called pebble...
She might be able to talk through why your daughters piggies have passed over... She's very knolegable...
It is terrible when this happens... I really am so sorry it's happened so quick and suddenly...
x
 
I heard that if mice get into the cage and they eat the pellets, that they could die from this by catching diseases from the mice. Not sure how accurate that is though. How strange :/ Sorry about your loss, thats aweful :( x
 
Can recall the previous 24-48 hours.

What veggies were fed - leeks = toxic
Were there fireworks over new year = shock
Were they all fed from the same bag of feed = contaminated feed
A fire anywhere near = toxic smoke
Could rats/mice get into any of the feed or cages = contamination
Any new animals introduced - no quarantine = infection
Were the rabbits and pig living together = pasturella/bordatella infection
Could a dog have got into the garden - barking at them = shock

HTH

Suzy x
 
You should also take the surviving animals to the vet to get them checked out.
I am so sorry to hear about this - very sad and devastating news for your daughter.
RIP little babies
 
claremw92 said:
Hand rearing wise... If you pop in to the vets and get some royal canin baby cat milk... That's the best stuff for hand rearing... I've used it several times now...
Click to expand...


Thanks for the advice. The vets where all closed today, but will be open tomorrow so will go and see them then. I got goats milk for them last night and my daughter just came back from the supermarket with puppy milk to try for them. Hopefully the fact that they are very healthy babies will be an advantage.
 
Suzygpr said:
Can recall the previous 24-48 hours.

What veggies were fed - leeks = toxic
Were there fireworks over new year = shock
Were they all fed from the same bag of feed = contaminated feed
A fire anywhere near = toxic smoke
Could rats/mice get into any of the feed or cages = contamination
Any new animals introduced - no quarantine = infection
Were the rabbits and pig living together = pasturella/bordatella infection
Could a dog have got into the garden - barking at them = shock
Click to expand...

Diet was the same as normal, with feed being kept in sealed containers and vegies kept inside. I think my daughter tends to give them brocolli and carrots, which she keeps inside the house.

Last new animal was introduced around 7 weeks ago. The rabbits and pigs where living together until she moved them into a separate cage yesterday. She had to leave a couple of them in with the rabbits so they weren't to overcrowded. Those ones are still happily running around with no loss of appetite. No stray dogs around either as the yard is fenced.

I even asked her if maybe one of the neighbours could have been spraying weeds to kill them with chemicals but she said she didn't think so.
 
oh how sad, to lose so many pets at once is awful, really hope the cause is found out soon, and the remaining animals are ok x
 
firstly, so sorry to hear you lost all your little friends.
I can't find or remember where the thread was now but I'm sure there was a post from another Australian member recently who had lost her piggies out of the blue? I think people then were speculating varied weather changes might have caused it?
 
Tbag said:
firstly, so sorry to hear you lost all your little friends.
I can't find or remember where the thread was now but I'm sure there was a post from another Australian member recently who had lost her piggies out of the blue? I think people then were speculating varied weather changes might have caused it?
Click to expand...

I think it was meganhanford?
 
Thanks! Excellent detective work :)
 
This must be a terrible shock for you both...my sympathies to you and your daughter having to face what most of us would consider to be the very worst nightmare scenario.

A few points I would like to clarify when trying to shed some light on what may have caused this:
a) All the animals that have passed away suddenly were either pregnant or had recently given birth? That said the baby guinea pigs also passed but the baby rabbits didn't?
b) Were all the pregnant Rabbits and guinea pigs originally kept together in the same hutch or just allowed to share the same run?
c) Are they kept outdoors or in a shed? what is the current temperature as I note you are in Oz.
d) Given there are so many pregant/nursing sows/does - are they any boy rabbits/piggies around and are they affected at all?

Preganacy toxeamia is the first thing that comes to mind - normally from stress however it would be unusual for all the mummy and baby guinea pigs to die on the same day as you would see gradual loss of life over a few days. For such a large loss of life at the same time, one could expect it to be environmental such as carbon monoxide or other gaseous poisoning (heavy dose of fly spray?) or sudden environmental shock (again fireworks? temperature?) - but then that wouldn;t explain why the baby bunnies and one piggie survived.However an alternative source could be contaminated greens (poison or bugs) which would be eaten by newborn baby piggies but not young baby bunnies

There are several infectious diseases that can cause sudden death with no obvious symptoms especially given you have compromised animals (ie pregnant/nursing mothers). The two most obvious are:

Bordetella - normally carried asymptomatically by rabbits but deadly to guinea pigs (hence why pigs and rabbits should never be kept together).

Pasteurella - again carried by rabbits but deadly to guinea pigs.

One new bug recently documented in a case of 35 sudden piggie deaths is Serpelina - a spirochaete that infects the caecum.No idea if this also infects rabbits.

Adenovirus is also known to cause sudden death in guinea pig colonies although again, I am not sure if it also infects rabbits.

However given the speed and lack of syptoms there are two further bugs that need to be considered (contracted from contaminated greens/grass) that CAN ALSO BE SPREAD To HUMANS and it is really important that, if it is not too late, you get post mortems done on a baby and mummy guinea pig, (and a rabbit although this might be too late). The bodies will need to be stored immediately at 4degC in an airtight container and got to a vet for analysis within 48 hours of death if possible. The two bugs are:

Salmonella (very rarely shows as diarrhoea in herbivores and often causes sudden death in pregnant/nursing mums)

Yersinia pseudotuberculosis - can be cultured from faecal samples in live rabbits and guinea pigs as it can be carried asymptomatically but has also been known to cause sudden death with no symptoms. Often associated with rats inhabiting the area


Again please note all these are bugs associated with the UK - in Oz there may be other viruses/bacteria eg hendra virus that may be implicated that can also be contracted by humans.

I also therefore think you should alert your own doctor to what has happened and get yourself and your daughter in for a check-up. Be alert for any signs of fatigue/malaise/swollen glands/temperature rise.

Adopt strict barrier measures (gloves/aprons/protective footwear and masks) and decontaminate anything that has come into contact with the animals with a strong anti-bacterial and viricidal disinfectant...eg trigene/virkon. Do not introduce any new animals and keep the existing ones in strict quarantine for the next 4 weeks, wearing protective clothing when handling them and wash hands etc throughly afterwards.

This is a really sad situation that highlights the potential risks associated with
a)keeping rabbits and piggies together
b) maintaining colonies/herds
c) breeding ...

....and furthermore, the danger to human health of a possible infection outbreak from some of the bugs mentioned above in these types of situations

I'm very sorry this has happened and at the very least please ensure you inform both your vet and your doctor.

HTH
x
 
Not sure if meganhanford is in South Africa or South Australia, but in Oz it is summer now, so there is also the possibility of heatstroke or flystrike maybe if there has been high temperatures recently which could explain so many sudden deaths in both species. Just something else which is a possibility. However as Pebble says the only certain way to find the cause is by PM on 2 or more of the animals.

I am sorry for your loss, it must be an awful shock for you.
 
I cant offer any advice I am sorry, all I can offer is my condolences. RIP little ones...x
 
The lady has Victoria Australia as her location. It could have been heatstroke to loose them all suddenly with so previous symptoms, or alternatively are there and native snakes or spiders that could have attacked them?

Paula
 
I'm very sorry for your loss. I would be horrified to lose so many piggies at once.

Best of luck to the survivers and that none of the others suddenly die. :(
 
Could it have been shock from new year fireworks? sorry for your losses x
 
We had a really hot freak summer one year and my neighbours two guinea pigs suddenly passed away. Has the weather changed recently?

I'm so sorry for your daughter's loss. :(
 
I'm really sorry i cannot be of much advice to you. I'm so sorry for you great loss. I think most people have covered the possible causes. The only best bet is a post mortem to be honest.

x.
 
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