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Upset stomach not responding to any treatment

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liquidmelancholy

liquidmelancholy

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My piggy Maggie first experienced a poorly tummy back in May after all of my 4 pigs first went out on the grass as the weather was warm. All the other pigs were fine after this, but Maggie started doing "cow-pat" type poos, and were very smelly. I took her to the vets and she was given Baytril and Fibreplex. This seemed to improve her poos so that they were almost back to normal.

However, ever since then she has had her cow-pat poos on and off. She has been particularly bad the last few days, so took her back to the vets and she was merely prescribed Fibreplex and Bio-Lapis again. This hasn't been working, and so I tried her on some old Baytril I had left over, but this also hasn't worked. I'm going to take her back to the vets in the next day or so and see what else can be tried. The vet seemed a bit iffy over whether me taking a sample of her poos and having it tested would be worth it, or even if anything would show up. Surely this is the only next logical step though?

She seems to be occasionally uncomfortable with her stomach, but otherwise is happy, healthy and eating fine. I queried the size of her stomach, as although she is quite a "chubby" pig, the tummy seems to be pretty protruding on both sides. I wondered whether her large tummy could be hiding any internal lumps and bumps/growths etc. The vet felt her tummy and said he couldn't feel anything, and if anything she could just have a bit of wind because of her poorly tummy.

She lives with a cage-mate and his poos have never been affected, so it can't be down to their diet or anything like that. Does anyone have any ideas as to what could be causing this? It's distressing for me, and obviously for her :(
 
Our special piggie Megan has cow pat poo's on and off.

I would recomend getting a poo analysis done just to rule out bugs.

But the thing we found is Megans is caused by certain veg, despite having been fine on that veg before.

We used a food diary and fed one type of veg at a time to check out what upset her system. We found out Cucumber, coriander, celery leaves, toms, broccoli is a no.
but it will vary...
Get a good quality hay in like timothy hay to increase the fiber in their diet.

Are you noticing periods of not pooing like for hours before they are soft?
 
What sort of food do you feed your piggies on a daily basis?

My Jerry suffered a period of bloat over the summer. With the warm weather I started giving him some pieces of melon to keep him hydrated. He had never had them before this summer and I now think it caused the bloat. He looked quite pear shaped and either side of his stomach was firm to touch. He was pooing, but they were soft and very misshapen.

The vet said that sugary foods can contribute to it and melon was the only thing new that I'd introduced.
 
Excellent idea. I would recommend taking fresh food I.e. veg away for a day or two and slowly introduce one type of veg at a time, sorry slightly copying from my learned colleagues here! Lol. But you get the idea. Also if your vet isnt Interested In Doing a poo analysis change your vet!

Good luck x
 
I'm definitely taking a poo sample with me to the vets and insist on having it tested!

Jerrybelly - All my piggies have fresh veggies every day - a little of: pepper, carrot, broccoli, parsnip, baby corn and coriander. They always used to have cucumber and celery as well, but thought I'd see if cutting out "wet veg" would help Maggie's tummy, but obviously it hasn't, so might as well reintroduce those! Then they just have a handful of Burgess Excel pellets each, and plenty of good quality hay (courier delivered from a website that does dust extracted hay, which is 3 times the price of the best pet shop hay!)

Sport_billy - is the list you wrote all of the veggies Megan CAN'T have, or is it just the broccoli she can't have? Maggie does tend to not poo very often and when she does it is a fairly sizeable cow-pat.
 
That was the food she can't have.

Bloaty/colic can mean that poo stops then starts again when the system kicks back in poos can be soft and mucas and pat like.

Megan is on Zantac and Metachlopromide when she has these episodes to keep her tummy ticking through. It is not full bloat like our pig Treacle suffered with but more Colic like.

Megs diet is:

Morning: Pepper
Teas: One of these - Parsley/cabbage/grean beans/spinach/carrot

These are the only foods that don't cause an issue, unfortunately it is not a great diet and I know is calcium high but its all she can eat.

Megan was a very neglected piggie and has special needs so is not like an ordinary piggie at all, she is very interbred. So her system has always been odd...
 
Well that was an interesting, if confusing, trip to the vets. I brought a poo sample with me and the vet said he'd it off to somewhere in Edinburgh or Glasgow to be tested (we're in Essex, is there really nowhere closer that'd test the poo?!) And results for anything like salmonella etc would be in in 3-5 days.

But his feeling is that it sounds very much like inflammatory bowel disease. And I was like...I've never heard of that before in guinea pigs! Does anyone know anything about this occurring in pigs? And the ways to diagnose are either gut biopsy (very intrusive and risky apparently) or blood test. He said the blood test would be straightforward, however finding a facility (again at one of the university testing labs in Scotland) that wouldn't "laugh in his face" for asking to test guinea pig blood would be next to impossible!

Very confused and worried.. and in the meantime I've been given no advice as to how to manage Maggie's symptoms. Although I suppose as there's no clue yet as to what's causing the symptoms, it's difficult to suggest anything in the meantime.

So...inflammatory bowel disease? Any thoughts?
 
Yes...but too rude to repeat!

Firstly - it's good you had a poo sample done...and yo need to await the results to rule out some bugs!

ATM: Take out all veggies. Put her on zantac with the agreement of your vet...4mg/kg should be OK...feed only hay and pellets
Once poos are stabilised, introduce veg one by one and monitor for a reaction.
I have some life pigs here who aren't allowed any veg but herbs, dandlions and grass.
HTH
x
 
I just wanted to offer some support, even if I can't help. Here's hoping you get to the bottom of what's causing her problem.
I would have been very frustrated by some of the comments made so I can understand why you feel confused.

Hugs to you and gentle cuddles for Maggie.
 
Bit shocked by the attitude of the vet. Can I ask for where you live in Essex, someone might be able to suggest a slightly more supportive vet,

Megans poo's were sent away too, but i dont know where to.
 
what a terrible comment from the vet- poor you. I would defiantly suggest finding another vet. Cant believe a vet would say something like that. Hugs to you. Hope all is sorted with your little one soon.
 
I've tried the whole taking out veggies and/or just feeding one veggie to see if the tummy improves, and so far it has not improved her. I'm not sure whether my vet would even have heard of Zantac! I know when I first brought her in in May a vet prescribed Infacol for the bloat she had. I've also tried Buscopan tablets myself, from advice on here from other posters, but to no avail.

I worry she is also now showing signs of a UTI, which would be no surprise as her bottom as often a little dirty, despite my efforts to stay on top of it by washing it. When I get the results from her poo sample I'll try and get some Septrin, just in case she has got a UTI. My feeling is that she doesn't have a bug or anything in her tummy, so I'm expecting the poo results to come back clear. Whatever the results, I am changing vets asap.

I've found a few vets online that claim to do "exotics". I'm in north Essex, so really need a good exotics vet in the Witham, Colchester, Chelmsford area. I've asked on here for recommendations before, but most have been in the south. Essex is a big county to travel that far.. especially as I have to use public transport and rely on my mum (who's attitude to g.pigs could be a little more sympathetic) to drive me otherwise.

I'm going to call around a few vets I've found to ask about the level of exotics knowledge, specifically g.pigs, in their staff. I'm concerned I'll get the snotty response of "they're all trained and knowledgeable about all animals"! :(
 
Are you able to get to Broxbourne at all, the vet at Vets and Pets is wonderful and is assisted once a month by my friend who runs the guinea pig clinic. The vets is literally on the Essex border, just into Nazeing. Karen who runs the clinic has written some wonderful articles and in her gut article mentions something which I think could fit with the symptoms you are experiencing.

This could be diet related resulting in an overload of Candida albicans in the gut, known as Candidiasis. Many of the commercially produced dry mixes are unsuitable for guinea pigs as many are too high in protein, sugars and carbohydrates, and can contain unnecessary colourants and additives. Also grains can cause overgrowth of these Candida Albicans within the gastrointestinal tract. This can then cause disturbances in the gut, for example diarrhoea/stasis/bloat. Candidiasis usually originates from the GI tract and can quickly overwhelm the animal If the diet seems to be causing the gastro problems I would recommend an exclusion diet which may involve removing all mix and vegetables and putting your pig on a hay and water-only diet, and supplementing daily with Vitamin C (40mg daily) until the gastrointestinal issue has ceased. Then slowly reintroduce mix, and if after 72 hours your pig is showing no issues you can introduce one vegetable at a time over the next 72 hours.


You don't have enough posts to PM but if you post your email address I can send you some more information.
 
Hi, sorry it's taken a while for me to reply to posts. I've been waiting for the test results to come back.

Thank you Helen - In the meantime I did manage to find a vets fairly locally that at least say they see guinea pigs on a regular basis, so that gives me hope they'd at least be better than my current vets! I made an appointment to see a vet there tomorrow afternoon, but things have now become complicated with Maggie's poo results having come back.

There were 3 tests done on the poo.. salmonella came back clear, another testing for something I can't remember what the vet said it was, will come back tomorrow and the vet will call me. But the testing for giardia/worms he said came back positive! He is suggesting starting Maggie on Panacur for that. So I should be going in to see my current vet to discuss all results and get the Panacur tomorrow afternoon. I guess I'll just have to cancel the appointment at the other vets for now, and see how Maggie gets on with the Panacur? If I'm not satisfied she's getting better, or just not satisfied with my current vet still, I'll re-book another appointment with the other vets.

So does anyone have thoughts on the positive result for giardia? From my research it says it's highly contagious, so would have thought her cage-mate Peanut would have gotten infected too surely? He's been absolutely fine since April, which is when I assume Maggie either picked something up off the lawn or there was something on one of the dandelions I gave them all as part of the first seasons crop. And is there a particularly harsh cleaning regime I need to do? Or just any thoughts/advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks :)
 
Hopefully the Panacur helps and if it doesn't then I would approach the other vet then. It is a good idea to routinely worm your pigs every 3 months anyway. Hope the vet gives you proper Panacur and not the small animal one. I use the sheep one on my pigs which is the most effective.
 
I've been given liquid Panacur 10% for cats/dogs. 0.7ml once a day for 5 days. Since Maggie is petitely framed (albeit very chunky pig!) with a small mouth, I'm breaking that into 2 lots of 0.35ml, either spaced apart across the day, or just done in two goes at the same time. I've just done her first dose, so fingers crossed there'll be some improvement soon.

Should I also be giving her cage-mate Peanut a dose at all? He's never shown signs, but isn't giardia meant to be very infectious?
 
I would be inclined to say yes, but best to get your vets agreement if you are unsure. At piggy clinic pigs are routinely wormed using Panacur so I can't see that it would be a problem. I try to worm my own pigs every 3 months.
 
Well I've gone past the 5 days of 0.7ml Panacur a day, and I'd say there's been next to no improvement.

Only that Maggie is doing less cow-patty poos, but doing nothing else in its place. I've carried on the Panacur for the 6th day today, and I'm thinking is it ok/worth it to carry on until all the Panacur in the bottle has gone? I calculate that'd be after 9 days or so.

Are there any health issues with giving her this for nearly double the amount of time the vet said on the bottle?

Also, I've been giving her the 0.7ml dosage in 2 0.35ml doses separated by a few hours. Her mouth is very small and she's not great at taking meds. Would this decrease the effectiveness of the Panacur at all?

Thanks in advance if anyone has any advice!
 
I am assuming there has been a DEFINITE identification/diagnosis of Giardia in the poo sample....not just a "best guess"?

Panacur is actually described as a "wormer"....and in scientific terms this means it works against wriggly worms of the more visible kind..such as pinworm, tapeworm and roundworm These are one class of intestinal parasite, and are completely different from the other kind such as Giardia/Cyrposporidium/Eimeria, which are microscopic single-celled protozoa and not worms at all.

The traditional antibiotic of choice for Giardia in guinea pigs and humans is Flagyl/Metronidazole ...although because of concerns of resistance to this drug emerging, Panacur is being increasingly used instead to treat Giardia in dogs, so I can understand why your vet has prescribed it. I suggest you talk to your vet about continuing/finishing the course of panacur over a 10 day period, and then if there is no improvement, about possibly trying Flagyl/metronidiazole instead.

Giardia can be quite difficult to get rid of and it also interferes with absorption of vitamins and minerals in the gut. It might be worth also talking to the vet about giving some metatone tonic or a Vit B12 injection to help pep Maggie up?

If she is not pooing or eating properly then supplementing with syringe feeding of mushed up pellets and also some fibreplex which contains both fibre and pro-biotics may also help - again please discuss with your vet.

HTH

x
 
I've not read the whole thread but has she had any faecal analysis done? These people are cheap, good and v quick. They don't g. Pigs on their species that they test for but might be worth a call? http://www.wormcount.com/
 
I have been given some further information that may help, though I think it duplicates what is said above.

Ask your vet to prescribe Metronidazole (Flagyl) 200mg/5ml oral suspension dose 0.5 mls 2 x day for 10 days, but treatment can be as lengthy as 4-6 weeks, as it can be stubborn to clear. It would also be a good idea to repeat a faecal float after 10 days, even if the diarrhoea has not stopped to check the protozoan status.


I would also get some electrolytes into your pig, if you are not doing so already, an example of this would be Dioralyte which you can get at any chemist or supermarket and the pig should be on this for the duration of the antibiotic treatment

http://www.cdc.gov/parasites/giardia/treatment.html


Giardia is also higly contagious, person to person, animal to person, animal to animal, so strict hygiene protocols should be observed.

Hope that helps a bit more.
 
Thanks so much for those replies! :) The poo was sent away and tested on 3 accounts, for salmonella, something else, and giardia. I was told it tested positive for giardia.

So I'd say I don't see the point of continuing with the Panacur, seeing as it was given for 5 days and I've done 7 days now and there's been no improvement.

I'm making an appointment with the vet tomorrow and ask him about Flagyl. If he's unwilling or unable to provide it, or gets snotty at the insinuation that I know more than him (has happened before {:|), then I'm definitely going to another vets for a second opinion so I can Maggie prescribed the Flagyl.

What I don't understand is why her cage-mate hasn't been affected by the giardia at all. I haven't given him any of Maggie's Panacur, purely because he has never shown any symptoms of having it. I always wash my hands thoroughly after touching anything related to Peanut and Maggie/their cage. I know my mum isn't as militant with the hand cleaning and she seems fine rolleyes So fingers crossed it doesn't seem to be causing much of an issue outside of poor Maggie being ill.
 
**Update...

The vet has given me Flagyl to give to Maggie at a dose of 0.54ml twice a day for 5 days. In conjunction with Fibreplex 3 times a day. The vet said she may need longer than 5 days of Flagyl, but will see how she gets on. Peanut still fine. I'm cleaning their cage with a bleach solution tomorrow during their cleaning out session, but not overly concerned about bleach cleaning everything, seeing as Peanut hasn't even appeared to have caught the giardia.
 
Hi, I'm really late to this thread. I just wanted to exchange vet experiences with you, as I'm local to you, but I don't seem to be able to PM you? Possibly you don't have enough posts on the forum yet? Hope Maggie has improved.
 
pelicano said:
Hi, I'm really late to this thread. I just wanted to exchange vet experiences with you, as I'm local to you, but I don't seem to be able to PM you? Possibly you don't have enough posts on the forum yet? Hope Maggie has improved.
Click to expand...

Posters need to have 50 posts to receive pms, but in this case I am going to amend liquidmelancholy permissions slightly to allow them to receive a pm's
 
I cant really add to this much to be honest, there has been loads of lovely advice.

- Metronidazole (flagyl) is the best and first line of defense against the Giardia which is great, so you may see some sort of improvement.
- dietary intolerances is certainly also a possiblity so the trial with the veg is a great idea
- your vet is an idiot. It is both not that difficult (with a skilled hand) to take blood from a piggie and it is also possible for it to be tested easily at most of the common vet labs out there. I know for one the Royal Vet college near me does it and we're right next to essex.

See how you go with the treatment so far. But if no improvement with the food trial or meds then i would seriously consider getting a second opinion from a specialist vet.

x.
 
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