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Urgently need help!

L

Littleangel

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hello, I have a guinea pig of an unknown age since he was adopted from a shelter who needed to be taken to a vet due to some weird crackling noises that he was making for a couple of hours one night. He was eating fine and he wasn’t behaving any differently and the noise stopped a couple of hours later, and even though he was fine the next morning the regular vet suggested I take him to the emergency vet clinic. I did that and after a brief examination, the vet, who says they specialize in small animals and exotics, said that he could possibly have pneumonia or some kind of upper respiratory infection due to aspiration because he might’ve choked on a piece of hay. She prescribed generic for Baytril, which is an antibiotic, to be given once every 12 hours at a dosage of .6 mL, for 14 days. The guinea pig weighs 1.5 kg. She also prescribed a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory medicine, Metacam, to be taken with the antibiotic every 12 hours at a dosage of .5 mL for 7 days.

Today I gave him his first dose, and in about 15 to 20 minutes after being given the two medications, he seemed to be very listless and weak for about 5 to 7 minutes, then he returned back to normal. Never seen him be like that before. He also seems to have a little bit of diarrhea, but his poops for the most part are well formed and still pallet shaped. I do see a little bit of watery discharge, but it doesn’t seem severe. I’m concerned because I know antibiotics could potentially cause death in guinea pigs, but I can’t get a hold of the vet because they only work two days a week and in my area there are very few clinics that take guinea pigs on a walk-in basis. You have to wait for a week or two to get an appointment and by that time it may be too late. Am I panicking? I’m going to give a second dose, but this time I’m going to separate the two meds but at least 40 minutes to see how he reacts to each one. I am very worried about my little guy.

Thanks!
 
I’m sorry to hear he is unwell.

Antibiotics can deplete the gut bacteria and cause a tummy upset (as it can in humans). We recommend a probiotic (or live micro biome transfer from a healthy companion) is given to help stabilize the gut and combat the effects if antibiotics.

However for an immediate and potential reaction to occur within minutes of a dose would be unexpected and I would certainly want that checked with a vet as a matter of urgency. I can appreciate that may be difficult. I think separating the doses as you suggest is a good idea to hopefully help pinpoint if he having trouble with one of the meds.

In addition we would recommend you switch from the routine weekly weight checks and instead weigh him daily while he is unwell. This is because hay is the first food group to be impacted when a piggy is feeling unwell but it is the most important food for them and its intake can’t be gauged by eye.
It will enable you to step in wirh syringe feeding promptly if his appetite is impacted.


Emergency and Crisis Care as well as Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
Emergency Information and Care

Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support
 
Today the little guy is doing worse. His poop now is kind of soft and mushy, even though it doesn’t seem like diarrhea, and he’s pooping less. I ordered Brytin probiotics on Amazon because my local pet store don’t carry it and it will be here tomorrow, but I’m just so worried about him. He’s not acting normally. He’s now jerking or twitching his rare more frequently throughout the day.

At first, he was pooping more but then he started pooping less. I noticed he’s also sleeping more and he’s not eating his hay or pellets as much. He used to love pellets and used to eat them at every opportunity because I would limit how many pellets he would get per day given that he’s a little chunky, but now he won’t even eat the pellets. They are just there. He’ll still eat the hay a little bit now and then and some veggies, but not like before. I give them celery since it’s high in fiber. I even bought some fiber treats for digestive support, and he ate half earlier this morning but then he wouldn’t eat the other half later this evening.

The vet prescribed him .6 mL of Baytril to be given every 12 hours and .5 mL of Metacam to be given every 12 hours as well. I give them both meds at the same time. I’ve been doing a lot of research online and it says this dosage is the maximum you can give a guinea pig of his weight. He’s about 1.5 kg and the Baytril is 25 mg/mL. I’m going to try to reduce the dose to half because I think that should be OK and see if he does better with it. I’m going to talk to the vet this weekend as that’s the earliest she will be available. It would be the same person that he saw. I’m actually surprised that she prescribed such a high dosage of this antibiotic that seems to adversely affect a lot of guinea pigs and kills some of them. He had very minor wheezing, which may or may not have been an upper respiratory infection so I’m just shocked that she would prescribe such a high dosage rather than starting him at lower dosage. Perhaps 0.25 mL would’ve been an appropriate dosage every 12 hours. He’s not even in pain and she gave him Metacam, which I still don’t understand why he was prescribed.
 
If he getting worse then you need to a vet.

Baytril is the most commonly prescribed and a safe worldwide antibiotic. Piggies don’t die solely because of taking it. If you are hearing reports of piggies dying while taking it, it is most likely because of underlying issues. There are far more success stories than bad outcomes but the bias online is only towards bad outcomes purely because people don’t post when their piggy has recovered so you get a skewed idea of the situation.

Metacam is not just a painkiller, it is also an anti inflammatory so he would have been given it to help bring down any inflammation in his airways. It is quite normal to be given it in cases of possible pneumonia.

Please step in with syringe feeding a recovery feed. As soon as their hay intake drops then that is of concern. Less poop means he is not eating enough hay.
Not voluntarily eating pellets doesn’t matter as they aren’t important in the diet. However, him not eating them is a sign that he isn’t eating enough hay (hay is the first food source they usually drop so by the time they stop eating anything else then things are often going too far). Celery is not the fibre his gut needs for proper function (and in fact giving veg when their tummy is upset can actually make things worse - you need to stop giving veg if he is getting soft poops). He doesn’t need fibre treats for digestive support. He needs hay fibre and when he isn’t eating enough hay for himself then you must syringe feed a recovery feed such as oxbow critical care or emeraid (or use mushed pellets as the emergency alternative)

Please do follow the advice and guides I linked in on my first reply, and also the one below - step in immediately with daily weight checks and syringe feed as much critical care per day as is necessary to replace lost hay intake and keep his weight stable each day (it is at least 60ml per day).

All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures
 
Yes, I bought some critical care and I tried to feed him a little bit tonight, but he is fighting me all the way and doesn’t really want to take it. I managed to force-feed a little bit, but probably not enough. He just sleeps all day. Occasionally, he gets out of the cage and he was a bit active earlier today, but he has no interest in food and will only nibble on a piece of hay once in a while. His poops are very small at this point.I can’t believe at the deterioration after just two doses of the medicine. I didn’t give him the third dose because I’m gonna talk to the vet tomorrow morning before proceeding. He was perfectly fine until he started taking this meds and now he is in very poor shape like I’ve never seen him before literally after only two doses. They may need to give him a different antibiotic or lower the dose so he isn’t taking the maximum. He might be one of those piggies that just can’t tolerate this medicine so I’m gonna continue feeding him critical care as much as I can and also try to give him a little bit of water because he has no interest in anything at all. I’ll post more once I talk to the vet who saw him.
 
I’m sorry to hear that.
Please feed him critical care little and very often, every two hours. The less they take per sitting the more sittings you need to do, and it can indicate the more poorly they are feeling.
He needs 40ml per day at a minimum (that is the minimum amount needed to keep gut function and help prevent stasis when they aren’t eating hay for themselves) but ideally 60ml per day.
Do keep us updated
 
My little guy is in very poor shape. I have a bad feeling. I spoke to the vet who saw him last time and she did say that we could stop the antibiotic like I did, but she was surprised that after two 0.6 mL doses that he was in this bad of a condition, i.e completely stopped eating. He’s not eating or drinking at all. I’ve been giving him critical care, but he’s not taking it very well and he won’t drink a drop of water so I am forced to syringe feed water to him, though I don’t think it’s enough. He is 1.5 kilo so he needs 150 ml of water which is super hard to give. His tummy seems to hurt a lot sometimes because he lays in his cage with his eyes closed like he’s in pain. They wanted to give him one injection of morphine, but I wasn’t sure if it was a good idea. The risk is it can further impact his hi tract. The other med, Metacam can also hurt his tummy and in this vulnerable condition, I don’t know if he should be getting it. He’s not in significant pain or discomfort all the time it seems, but his tummy is sensitive and it seems like sometimes he spasms and it’s very painful. Should I give the Metacam?The tummy is very sensitive to the touch. He sleeps almost all the time. Once in a blue moon I will see him nibbling on a piece of hay.

The vet gave him a bunch of fluids yesterday afternoon, and an injection to stimulate his G.I. movement, but he hasn’t started eating or anything and not even touching a drop of his water. He has one dry small poop every couple of hours that he eats (that I’ve seen). Poop is good for them, but I don’t have another guinea pig so I can’t make a poop cocktail.

What else can I do? I think the antibiotic, even if it did not completely cause this was responsible for making it a lot worse. I’ve been crying all the time.
 
I’m sorry to hear this.

If he is in pain then he absolutely does need painkillers.
Metacam is very well tolerated by piggies and does not cause tummy issues (piggies metabolise Metacam very differently to cats and does not cause the same issues in piggies that it can in cats).
The buprenorphine is a strong opioid painkiller and can make them spaced out but if he is in considerable pain then it would be a good option to help him in the short term.

It sounds like he could be bloated and potentially a stasis issue. Bloat is incredibly painful. Pain will also stop him wanting to eat so you absolutely need to manage his pain. It sounds like he perhaps needs gut meds (emeprid or cisapride for example) for you to give him at home.

All you can do, aside from meds, is keep going wirh the syringe feeding. Food is the way to help pull them out of stasis and bloating.
Lack of poop is the gut slowing down and lack of food.

What did his weight checks over the past couple of mornings show you?

I’ve added in another guide to help you further

Wiebke's Guide to Tummy Trouble
 
I would definitely be giving some sort of pain relief, metacam is normally tolerated well by piggies.

It's so horrible when they're poorly 😞
 
My baby is still doing very poorly. I’ve been feeding him critical care and giving him water through a syringe, but he’s only pooping maybe six poops a day, and they are small. He’s constipated. His tummy is still very tender and probably somewhat painful, but he doesn’t seem to be squinting as much in pain today. I haven’t given him pain meds yet because the second vet said that it could’ve been the pain meds that also contributed to whatever he’s going through because there’s a possibility they could affect the stomach negatively. But pain wise he seems to be doing better today. I try to give him at least 60 cc of critical care per day, once every hour or two depending on how much he eats because he really struggles and a lot of it falls out of his mouth. He takes the water a little bit better than the food. I feel horrible for everything that is happening to him and I don’t know if I should continue to make him suffer like this because it’s heartbreaking and I keep crying, but I also don’t want to give up. I don’t know for sure what caused this in the first place and I’m worried that I’m just keeping him alive a little bit longer and prolonging the inevitable if there’s something else that caused this and the antibiotic just expedited the process. It breaks my heart to see him like this. I can’t work or think about anything.
 
I'm sorry to hear this.

Guinea pigs do not get constipation. If he is not pooping then it is because his gut is struggling. He needs the pain meds and he needs gut stimulating meds. Poop output is also 1-2 days food behind intake so while useful it is not up to date information hence the importance of the daily weight checks.
As I said, pain meds do not negatively impact guinea pigs digestive system. Being in pain will impact his system - a piggy in pain is not going to want to eat and not eating will make things worse.

How much critical care are you feeding per mouthful? They can only take about 0.3ml at a time and you have to wait for him to swallow it before trying more.
If it is dribbling out of his mouth then it is even harder to gauge what he is actually eating without the weight check information.
Is he still swallowing properly?

What are his weight checks telling you each morning? This is vital information to be able to monitor the situation.
 
Hello, quick update on my little baby boy. Over the past two days he has seemed to start eating a bit on his own and today he even drank water on his own for the first time. It only happened once or twice, but at least I saw it happen. He also seems to be a bit more active than he was the previous couple of days. I didn’t give him the pain meds because I was afraid that it would stop his gut and the vet did not disagree that that may be a reasonable approach, but because he’s a bit more active now I’m assuming his under less pain because he’s also eating more on his own. I try to encourage him eating hay, but he really wants veggies so I give him a lot of cucumber which he loves because it’s a good source of hydration and vitamin C. He mostly eats Romain and cucumber with a few strands of parsley. I think those are relatively good for his digestion from what I understand. But the thing is that he didn’t eat the previous night. I haven’t slept in five nights for more than a couple of hours, even though I’m sick and feeling very terrible, but I have to get up in the middle of the night to feed my little baby boy. And I noticed in the morning when I was feeding him that he hadn’t touched any of his food, but during the day today, he seemed much better, and yesterday he seemed better too, so I’m not sure what’s happening. It’s confusing. It’s like he’s giving me mixed signals.
 
I’m glad to hear he seems happier.

Pain meds categorically do not stop guinea pig guts, it’s disheartening that the vet has let you think that they do. A simple google search will show you that it is not the case with piggies.
Other species can be affected by pain meds but guinea pigs metabolise them very differently to other species and it does not cause any such issues in piggies.
Being in pain, however, absolutely will stop their guts from working effectively. Pain management in a poorly piggy is absolutely vital.

Cucumber is good fof hydration but it is not a good source of vit c.
Both lettuce and cucumber are low vit c sources. Parsley is not suitable to be given daily due to the calcium/oxalate.
Bell pepper or cilantro are higher vit c sources.
While eating veg is good as it shows the start of an appetite, it is not what the gut needs to function properly. Hay fibre and critical care are essential, along with the daily weight checks to ensure he is getting enough.
 
I did a Google search and Metacam can cause gut issues in guinea pigs, although not common. But that’s what another vet said about the antibiotic but then what happened to my little guy is very likely the result of that antibiotic. The vet gave me the options but also said there are risks. We even considered opioids. I did tell the vet that if I saw him be in significant pain I would absolutely start giving him Metacam.

He gets parsley a little bit each day because the vet said the primary thing is to get him to eat something on his own, and he does eat a lot of Romaine and cucumber. He doesn’t like bell pepper. I’ve tried numerous times. I still give him half a syringe of critical care every two hours, used to give half every hour as that is all he could tolerate without significant distress. Now he gets half every 2 hours during the day and every 4.5 hours at night, and he is starting to eat hay on his own. I bought hay flower heads that are supposed to be a treat, but I’m giving him a few more per day just so he gets that extra fiber. He’s also getting a little bit of a probiotic every day. And I give him up to 2 mL of gripe water for babies per day as I read that it can help with bloating and gas. He was more active today and didn’t seem to be in as much discomfort as previous days. I’ll continue feeding critical care, and I'm optimistic but worried he may relapse if something else going on too. X-ray showed nothing but they couldn’t get a good X-ray of everything. The ultrasound also showed nothing. And no physical ailments except some very minor abnormal breathing.
 
My little baby is not doing well and he’s hardly eating anything except i see him nibbling on some veggies like kale and parsley. He sometimes seems to eat those pretty well in small portions. I also see him eating a bit of hey through out the day, but very little, and he hardly moves and just mostly stays in one place sleeping. The force feeding is so difficult and I don’t know if I can continue. Seeing him suffer like this is very hard. He doesn’t seem to be in physical pain because when I pick him up now, he no longer reacts like he’s in pain, and while there might be some discomfort.

I haven’t slept for more than two hours for the past several nights despite having Covid, and the whole situation is just horribly sad and painful for me. How do you know when you should stop and put him down? The local exotics vet said they do it by giving him a small sedative, then putting him in a chamber where they give him Gas to put him to sleep and then inject something into his heart. But it’s so hard wrenching to make that decision but at the same time I know I can’t go on like this as it’s been a week and while he had a brief improvement for two days, the past few days have been stagnant and I feel like I’m prolonging the inevitable.
 
I am so sorry your boy is not getting better it must be a heartbreaking situation to be in 💔
I will try to add a link for you to read through which although will be upsetting may help 😥
 
Has your vet given you a diagnosis? If the illness is terminal, then putting your poor piggy to sleep at some stage is inevitable. If he is doing very little but sleep and not eating enough to survive on without being fed by syringe, he is probably coming to the end of his life. It sounds like it has reached the stage where you could let him go. Saying goodbye is very difficult. Making the decision to let him go. Putting him to sleep sooner rather than later would release him from pain and give him a relatively easy death. There is not much to be gained by waiting at this stage. Sending you wishes of comfort 🙏
 
There is no diagnosis, unfortunately. The x-rays and the ultrasound came back without any definitive diagnosis. He does still eat a little bit on his own, and while he seems to be in deep sleep much of the time, he does occasionally show some energy and walks around and still has the strength to fight me when he no longer wants to be syringe fed. So he hasn’t given up completely that’s why the decision is so hard. In fact today, he started eating a little bit more in the afternoon. But he had one good day a few days ago as well before his relapse so he seems to be up and down. I’ve stopped for speeding him to the point where he has to really start fighting me because I don’t want to put him through that stress anymore, even though originally that’s what the vet and I decided to do to give them a fighting chance. Now I just give him whatever he’ll take relatively calmly (he never fully cooperates)and when he starts getting too rowdy, I just let him go. I have to feed and water because he will not drink any water on his own.
 
I hope he will have more good days than bad as time goes on.

Have you tried any different critical care as some are flavoured differently he may prefer them 💐
 
It sounds like you are doing all that can be done and making him as comfortable as possible. I hope that you are feeling better. Your patient care and understanding are wonderful ♥️ I hope he pulls through 🙏
 
Hi everyone,
I’m new here and have been quietly reading through this thread. I just wanted to say how deeply I admire the care and love you’re giving your little one. It’s heartbreaking to see them go through something like this, and I can only imagine how exhausted and emotionally drained you must feel.


I don’t have much advice to add, but I wanted to send my support and let you know I’m thinking of you both. I really hope he pulls through. You’re doing everything you can, and that means so much.


How is he doing today?
 
HUGS

It is always really tough when things are hanging in the balance so much.

Since he doesn't seem to be in major discomfort and still has enough zest of life, just try to take every day as it comes and see each day longer you have him as a blessing.
You will know when the day has come on which he has decided to make his journey to the Rainbow Bridge and you will know when he is getting through the crisis on his own.

It is hard on you since all the little ups and downs are so stressful to deal with. But right now he still has got enough zest for life to go on without you having to feel bad about it. There is no right or wrong in the zone you are currently in as it is neither clearly too early or clearly too late. Go with what your heart tells you and you won't go wrong. :tu:

But he is lucky to have found such a loving and dedicated owner in you. ❤️
 
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