UTI guinea pig

[Helsbell]

I’m sorry to hear this

The situation is still as I have explained before, either:

1 - it’s a bacterial infection but the antibiotics were not the right ones for the type of bacteria, or the course was not long enough.
Determination of diagnosis would likely be that the vets can taken Cultures, their cultures can check which bacteria is present to know antibiotic would be the right one, identify whether it is actually blood or whether it is porphyrines, and then another appropriate course of antibiotics may help

2 - a stone may be in there. A scan or x ray would be needed to determine.
If no stone, then back to potential bacterial infection or sterile cystitis (see below)
If stone present, then depending upon size or position of stone next steps would need to be determined as to whether the stone can come out on its own (possible in sows provided the stone is small) or whether surgical removal would be needed

3 - If multiple rounds of antibiotics don’t work, if no bacteria present on cultures, if no stone present on scan or x ray, then a vet could determine a diagnosis of sterile cystitis ( non bacterial bladder inflammation). Sterile cystitis is usually only diagnosed once every other possibility including stones is ruled out. There is no test that can be done to diagnose sterile cystitis. It can only be done by ruling out everything else first.
Sterile cystitis can be suppressed by an antibiotic but symptoms return once the antibiotic is stopped because there is no bacteria in this condition so antibiotics are of no use.
There is no cure, only management with glucosamine and pain killers. Plus ensuring the diet is appropriate

The strip tests you are using don’t tell you specifics.
For example leukocytes mean there is inflammation but inflammation would be present in all three possible causes ie they show up whether it is bacterial, stones or sterile cystitis.
Protein will also be raised if there is a bacterial infection or a non bacterial infection. Also If there are bladder stones and the stone is bashing the bladder and causing an infection then proteins will also show as raised on a strip test.
So the tests are showing you that she has an issue but it doesn’t tell you what is actually wrong

Did the vet tell you to use potassium citrate? I don’t think I can see it mentioned on the thread before now.
Potassium citrate may be given when a piggy has had a stone but that stone has been removed. Potassium citrate might help reduce the risk of further stones forming (but it isn’t a miracle drug so it may not) but it definitely will not do anything to dissolve or help any stone which already exists. Any stone which is already in the bladder has to come out as explained in 2 above

Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones

hi thanks for your reply.

Been to vets this morning
The vet I seen was more clued up on guinea pigs.
She gave her a good look over a felt everywhere.
She said she can’t feel anything but doesn’t mean there’s stones there.
She thinks she hasn’t been on antibiotics long enough. And now it’s retuned the infection.
She suggested 30 days of baytrill ans they have a urine sample that’s getting sent off.
She said carry on with everything I’m doing.
Potassium citrate was some advice off the previous vet. If she had bladder sludge or any crystals forming would stop them from growing into a stone.
I’m still giving her Cystease everyday.

If it is a small stone will she pass it her self?
Kind regards Helen

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes that is very possible. The wrong antibiotic or not long enough of a course can mean not all the bacteria were killed. Once meds are stopped then if any bacteria remain it can cause the infection to start again.
If a 30 day course doesn’t stop it and symptoms return once the antibiotics are stopped then that would be making it look much more likely to be sterile cystitis

Yes It might stop it forming into a stone. You would still need to encourage any sludge or crystals does to come out through promoting a wet diet and lots of water intake. Also by ensuring her drinking water is filtered, she isn’t given many pellets and any high calcium veg is kept very limited.

She might be able to pass a small stone but it is not possible to say with certainty

 

[Helsbell]

Thanks for your help.
Yes she’s only has a few Timothy hay pellets. She’s never really been a pellet eater. Yes only been giving her some romaine lettuce and cucumber. I’ve also been syringe feeding her water. I did buy some uti pellets from piggie parcels but they all don’t seem keen on them.

Thanks Helen

 

[Helsbell]

Cuddles with mum

 

[Piggies&buns]

Thanks for your help.
Yes she’s only has a few Timothy hay pellets. She’s never really been a pellet eater. Yes only been giving her some romaine lettuce and cucumber. I’ve also been syringe feeding her water. I did buy some uti pellets from piggie parcels but they all don’t seem keen on them.

Thanks Helen

So with calcium intake there is a balance which has to be met and it’s complicated. Too little calcium intake is as bad as too much. So if you don’t feed enough calcium then you can find they still get sludge/ crystals/stones. This is because the balance is still wrong, it’s just in the other direction.
If she isn’t getting pellets and you don’t feed any high calcium veg, and if her only calcium source is water (assuming you don’t filter it) it can be she isn’t getting enough calcium. For now it’s probably best you don’t change anything given you don’t have a diagnosis of sludge/stones etc but if you do ever get that diagnosis then this information could become relevant.

You can’t feed the urinary support pellets from
Piggie parcels and give Cystease at the same time as it will give far too much glucosamine.
You can only give one or the other - so if she isn’t keen on the pellets anyway then don’t feed them at all.

 

[Helsbell]

So with calcium intake there is a balance which has to be met and it’s complicated. Too little calcium intake is as bad as too much. So if you don’t feed enough calcium then you can find they still get sludge/ crystals/stones. This is because the balance is still wrong, it’s just in the other direction.
If she isn’t getting pellets and you don’t feed any high calcium veg, and if her only calcium source is water (assuming you don’t filter it) it can be she isn’t getting enough calcium. For now it’s probably best you don’t change anything given you don’t have a diagnosis of sludge/stones etc but if you do ever get that diagnosis then this information could become relevant.

You can’t feed the urinary support pellets from
Piggie parcels and give Cystease at the same time as it will give far too much glucosamine.
You can only give one or the other - so if she isn’t keen on the pellets anyway then don’t feed them at all.

 

[Helsbell]

So with calcium intake there is a balance which has to be met and it’s complicated. Too little calcium intake is as bad as too much. So if you don’t feed enough calcium then you can find they still get sludge/ crystals/stones. This is because the balance is still wrong, it’s just in the other direction.
If she isn’t getting pellets and you don’t feed any high calcium veg, and if her only calcium source is water (assuming you don’t filter it) it can be she isn’t getting enough calcium. For now it’s probably best you don’t change anything given you don’t have a diagnosis of sludge/stones etc but if you do ever get that diagnosis then this information could become relevant.

You can’t feed the urinary support pellets from
Piggie parcels and give Cystease at the same time as it will give far too much glucosamine.
You can only give one or the other - so if she isn’t keen on the pellets anyway then don’t feed them at all.

 

[Helsbell]

Yeah I knew about feeding both piggie parcels was gonna swap the cystease for the pellets but she doesn’t like them. So she’s Just on her original ones.
I’ve only took away the high calcium veg until we know what’s happening. I just wanted to get more water intake to her. Just have to see what’s happening this month. And see how she reacts to more antibiotics she is happy been munching all day and very active. Just a squeak no and then when she pees.

 

[Piggies&buns]

If you were seeing lots of white and gritty deposits then reducing calcium is a good thing.
If there were not any, then she probably had a good calcium balance so doesn’t need calcium reduced in her diet.
As I say, it’s about a balance so reducing it if the balance was already good could actually cause a problem over the coming weeks

Hopefully a longer course of antibiotics will help.

 

[Helsbell]

She was eating a lot of celery I didn’t feed much kale or spinach only every few weeks they get little bit. Her main diet was peppers cucumbers carrots sometimes not really keen on them. They was always left. Celery some apple once a week.
But I learned celery was high in calcium so I’ve cut it out for now. Yes there were some deposits of white gritty stuff. But not as much this week.
She seemed to have developed a cough tonight I don’t know where that’s come from. But she’s on baytill so that would clear it up if it is a respiratory infection.
Feel a bit deflated tonight I feel she isn’t going to make it.

 

[Piggies&buns]

I think it’s the leaves of celery which are higher in calcium but either way celery isn’t a daily food. It can be given once a week.
Carrot shouldn’t be given regularly anyway. Carrot and fruit is the equivalent of a chocolate bar.
Changing the diet doesn’t have an instant effect on calcium in the body. It takes several weeks to have an effect.
The occasional white patch of calcium urine is fine, it is how the body excretes calcium. It’s only a problem if it happens very often.

Perhaps the cough is because she has been in hay?
They can cough if they eat too fast

As I say it’s about finding a balance which works for each piggy while keeping in mind that you should not cut calcium out entirely.
I don’t feed mine any pellets so to make up for the loss of calcium from the pellets, I give them a high calcium veg once a week.

 

[Helsbell]

I think it’s the leaves of celery which are higher in calcium but either way celery isn’t a daily food. It can be given once a week.
Carrot shouldn’t be given regularly anyway. Carrot and fruit is the equivalent of a chocolate bar.
Changing the diet doesn’t have an instant effect on calcium in the body. It takes several weeks to have an effect.
The occasional white patch of calcium urine is fine, it is how the body excretes calcium. It’s only a problem if it happens very often.

Perhaps the cough is because she has been in hay?
They can cough if they eat too fast

As I say it’s about finding a balance which works for each piggy while keeping in mind that you should not cut calcium out entirely.
I don’t feed mine any pellets so to make up for the loss of calcium from the pellets, I give them a high calcium veg once a week.

I think it’s the leaves of celery which are higher in calcium but either way celery isn’t a daily food. It can be given once a week.
Carrot shouldn’t be given regularly anyway. Carrot and fruit is the equivalent of a chocolate bar.
Changing the diet doesn’t have an instant effect on calcium in the body. It takes several weeks to have an effect.
The occasional white patch of calcium urine is fine, it is how the body excretes calcium. It’s only a problem if it happens very often.

Perhaps the cough is because she has been in hay?
They can cough if they eat too fast

As I say it’s about finding a balance which works for each piggy while keeping in mind that you should not cut calcium out entirely.
I don’t feed mine any pellets so to make up for the loss of calcium from the pellets, I give them a high calcium veg once a week.

Yes think your right she been rooting in the hay.
She hasn’t coughed since.
so don’t you give them any pellets at all ?
I have reduced them a lot over this last year as I was keeping there bowls full over a year ago.
But i was watching videos and they said only a small amount per guinea pig. There in the science select grain free ones.
What do you give yours daily ?

Kind regards Helen

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes think your right she been rooting in the hay.
She hasn’t coughed since.
so don’t you give them any pellets at all ?
I have reduced them a lot over this last year as I was keeping there bowls full over a year ago.
But i was watching videos and they said only a small amount per guinea pig. There in the science select grain free ones.
What do you give yours daily ?

Kind regards Helen

Yes should only ever be one tablespoon per pig per day but they aren’t essential in the diet.

Mine get coriander, lettuce, bell pepper and cucumber daily. They get something high calcium once a week (spring greens or kale usually).

They might also get something else in addition once or twice a week but it depends on what veg I’ve bought for us for our meals - they might get a bit of broccoli, or cauliflower leaves, a green bean for example.

They are not given any pellets at all. By not giving them pellets I have more leeway in other areas or their diet.
I also feed a bit more than the one cup of veg per out per day.
In summer they are on grass all day.
In winter I hide them some dried forage mixed in their hay to help keep them occupied.

 

[Helsbell]

Just some more advice what’s the maxim dose of metacam for a 1.08kg guinea pig
She doesn’t seem comfortable today and I’ve notice some blood on her liners.
I really don’t want her in pain. She’s on 0.4ml once a day of cat metacam

Thanks Helen

 

[Piggies&buns]

You have to stick to the dose as prescribed by the vet, so don’t change dosage without a discussion with your vet.

Metacam is dosed on a sliding scale according to clinical need so while there is a maximum amount a 1kg piggy can have, it does not mean the maximum dose is appropriate.

I can say that there is definite leeway for her to have more though. Piggies often require pain meds for an acute condition to be given twice a day as they metabolise it within around 12 hours but it is for your vet to tell you what is appropriate in her case.

I hope she is ok

 

[Helsbell]

Update on Maggie

She had a scan yesterday and there’s no stones.
I’ve stopped the antibiotics now as she’s been on them for a while.
And there’s just making her not eat.
She has lost 43g
So the plan moving forward with her is they have doubled her pain relief.
And I’m going to continue on the cystease.
I dont know what else I can do any suggestions would be great.
Today she’s doing a lot better she’s had a lot of critical care off me and also been eating hay all day.
Some cucumber romaine and parsley today.
She is active. But my vet wanted to put her to sleep.
I can’t put an active happy piggy a sleep.
Until she’s not eating herself and I can’t control her pain. Then. No I’m not letting her go like that.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Have they confirmed there is no bacteria via running cultures?

Antibiotics deplete the good gut bacteria so you can help combat the lack of appetite caused by antibiotics by giving poop soup and/or probiotics.
Poop soup and Probiotics should continue to be given for a few days after antibiotics have been stopped. This is because the gut bacteria will remain depleted by the antibiotics.

If there is no bacteria then I’m assuming the vet has given a diagnosis of sterile cystitis?

If so then the plan going forward would be to use glucosamine (so the cystease) and pain relief.
The glucosamine is the best defence against a flare (obviously pain relief is needed).

Sterile cystitis has a range of forms from mild to severe.

I am adding the pees guide in once again as it explains the condition and what can be done

Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones

We don’t talk of weight loss until it is 50g or more, so she is only just at borderline for weight loss

I have merged the new thread you made back in with your existing thread so that everything is kept together in one place

 

[Helsbell]

Have they confirmed there is no bacteria via running cultures?

Antibiotics deplete the good gut bacteria so you can help combat the lack of appetite caused by antibiotics by giving poop soup and/or probiotics.
Poop soup and Probiotics should continue to be given for a few days after antibiotics have been stopped. This is because the gut bacteria will remain depleted by the antibiotics.

If there is no bacteria then I’m assuming the vet has given a diagnosis of sterile cystitis?

If so then the plan going forward would be to use glucosamine (so the cystease) and pain relief.
The glucosamine is the best defence against a flare (obviously pain relief is needed).

Sterile cystitis has a range of forms from mild to severe.

I am adding the pees guide in once again as it explains the condition and what can be done

Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones

We don’t talk of weight loss until it is 50g or more, so she is only just at borderline for weight loss

I have merged the new thread you made back in with your existing thread so that everything is kept together in one place

Yes no infection or bacteria
And I’ve been giving her probiotics.

And I’ll just carry on with the cystease and metacam
Thanks

 

[Piggies&buns]

Yes no infection or bacteria
And I’ve been giving her probiotics.

And I’ll just carry on with the cystease and metacam
Thanks

So it is sterile cystitis then.

You generally have to find the maintenance dose of glucosamine which works for your piggy. It can temporarily be increased during a flare up to bring symptoms under control

 

[Helsbell]

I'm hoping

So it is sterile cystitis then.

You generally have to find the maintenance dose of glucosamine which works for your piggy. It can temporarily be increased during a flare up to bring symptoms under control

I’m hoping it’s cystitis how long does it take to see any improvement on the cystease ?
And what is the maximum dose I can give her ?
She’s got slight pink pee again tonight. Would the cystitis do that ?
Thanks Helen

 

[Piggies&buns]

Glucosamine takes a few weeks to build up enough in the system for it to work.
Sterile cystitis can take a mild, medium or severe form. The guide I linked in explains.

Cystease is usually the contents of one capsule mixed into 2ml of water. You give then either give 1ml of it in the morning, put the rest of it in the fridge and then give the remaining 1ml in the evening; or give all 2ml in one go once a day.
To bring a bad flare under control you can do 1 capsule in the morning and 1 capsule in the evening for a few days.

 

[Helsbell]

Hi
I had a call off the vet today.
There doing some scans and x rays on Wednesday. The senior vet looked at the scan she had on Friday and said she can see stones. Her bladder wasn’t fully full. So it’s been hard to see. If there’s stones in the x ray she’s having surgery. So she’s booked in 8.30 am Wednesday.
Thanks Helen

 

[Piggies&buns]

Sorry to hear she has stones. It would explain her continuing to be in pain though

I hope she is ok
Keep us updated on how things go

 

[Helsbell]

Yes I will thanks

 

[Helsbell]

Yes I will thanks

Sorry to hear she has stones. It would explain her continuing to be in pain though

I hope she is ok
Keep us updated on how things go

Hi update on Maggie

She’s home and doing well!
I’m so relieved what a long day it’s been.

Stones removed and the surgery went really well.

 

[Piggies&buns]

That’s great news!
Best wishes for her recovery

 

[Helsbell]

Thanks

 

[weepweeps]

I’m glad she’s doing well. My Patrick has just had a stone removed. I got up in the night to re warm his snuggle safe as they can feel cold after an operation. I also gave him a chunk of cucumber in case he wasn’t drinking yet. Good luck I hope she has a speedy recovery

 

[Helsbell]

I’m glad she’s doing well. My Patrick has just had a stone removed. I got up in the night to re warm his snuggle safe as they can feel cold after an operation. I also gave him a chunk of cucumber in case he wasn’t drinking yet. Good luck I hope she has a speedy recovery

I’m glad she’s doing well. My Patrick has just had a stone removed. I got up in the night to re warm his snuggle safe as they can feel cold after an operation. I also gave him a chunk of cucumber in case he wasn’t drinking yet. Good luck I hope she has a speedy recovery

Awwww has he? Is he doing good yes I’ve got a couple of snuggle safes in case there other steal it . Yes going to give her some cucumber be she’s doing well I didn’t think she move about much. Hope he’s feeling better soon

 

[weepweeps]

Awwww has he? Is he doing good yes I’ve got a couple of snuggle safes in case there other steal it . Yes going to give her some cucumber be she’s doing well I didn’t think she move about much. Hope he’s feeling better soon

I’m pleased she’s doing well already