UTI issues....

[Carolinemm]

Following on from highjacking Flintstones thread Briefly Pipkin had 'cystitis' a month ago, recovered from it with baytril and loxicom v quickly, then he got bloat so we xrayed him consciously, no stones... Then one month on and he is squeaking when weeing again. After 4 days with Septrin twice a day and loxicom twice a day hes no better so.....today she kept him in.

This afternoon hes come around fine (phew) Hes had an ultrasound, showed nothing so then he had an xray under GA. Whilst he was under she took a urine sample via catheter and flushed out his bladder. There are no signs of stones or any abnormalities with the bladder wall, kidneys or tubes etc from what she can see. He does have blood in his urine (I havent seen any but proteins show up on dip stick) Just some gritty substance so the start of stone forming.. So shes sending the urine sample off to be tested to determine if he does have an infection and we'll continue with antibiotics and pain relief until the results are back.

I'm starting to doubt giving them veg at all. He lived for 18months in a dreadful hamster cage and when he came to me exactly 2 months ago his teeth were fine, his wee was fine and now he has all this! Surely its the veg? and I'm following the ca/p diet recommended, just wondering.... he has a vit C tablet daily and lots of fresh hay of course daily and the odd handfuls of grass which he loves...I'm not filtering the water thatll be the next step...and from all the threads folks have had to cut out the veg.....I think I need reminding why any veg is good at all! I know they like it but you know.....Ill go and read up! PS as I have another guinea also started squeaking when weeing for first time last fri but she seems fine now thankfully! shes on Septrin and pain relief just once a day, Ive had her a year though....

 

[sport_billy]

Following on from highjacking Flintstones thread Briefly Pipkin had 'cystitis' a month ago, recovered from it with baytril and loxicom v quickly, then he got bloat so we xrayed him consciously, no stones... Then one month on and he is squeaking when weeing again. After 4 days with Septrin twice a day and loxicom twice a day hes no better so.....today she kept him in.

This afternoon hes come around fine (phew) Hes had an ultrasound, showed nothing so then he had an xray under GA. Whilst he was under she took a urine sample via catheter and flushed out his bladder. There are no signs of stones or any abnormalities with the bladder wall, kidneys or tubes etc from what she can see. He does have blood in his urine (I havent seen any but proteins show up on dip stick) Just some gritty substance so the start of stone forming.. So shes sending the urine sample off to be tested to determine if he does have an infection and we'll continue with antibiotics and pain relief until the results are back.

I'm starting to doubt giving them veg at all. He lived for 18months in a dreadful hamster cage and when he came to me exactly 2 months ago his teeth were fine, his wee was fine and now he has all this! Surely its the veg? and I'm following the ca/p diet recommended, just wondering.... he has a vit C tablet daily and lots of fresh hay of course daily and the odd handfuls of grass which he loves...I'm not filtering the water thatll be the next step...and from all the threads folks have had to cut out the veg.....I think I need reminding why any veg is good at all! I know they like it but you know.....Ill go and read up! PS as I have another guinea also started squeaking when weeing for first time last fri but she seems fine now thankfully! shes on Septrin and pain relief just once a day, Ive had her a year though....

Poor Pipkin, Bladder problems are annoying and sometimes you can never get to the bottom of them. Pleased you've ruled out stones.

I wouldn't stop veg all together, piggies do need vitamin C and other goodness from the fresh veggies, we are doing a low calcium diet for Putt as she has had cystals in her wee and suffers with long term bladder issues. There is a sticky from Laura regarding Calcium/Phosphorus ratio's in veg http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30297 which maybe worth reading.

Hope your little boy gets well soon

 

[Carolinemm]

Poor Pipkin, Bladder problems are annoying and sometimes you can never get to the bottom of them. Pleased you've ruled out stones.

I wouldn't stop veg all together, piggies do need vitamin C and other goodness from the fresh veggies, we are doing a low calcium diet for Putt as she has had cystals in her wee and suffers with long term bladder issues. There is a sticky from Laura regarding Calcium/Phosphorus ratio's in veg http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30297 which maybe worth reading.

Hope your little boy gets well soon

Hi thanks very much for that. I have read Lauras brilliant post over and over regarding ca/phosp but from memory it says dont go low calcium as phosphorus can cause stones too I think? So I am a bit baffled what to do for the best, I guess just not a lot of veg at all but the right types... x

 

[Lizzie]

you can in extreme situations not feed veggies, providing you are giving them enough vit.c from other sources - pellets, in their water, etc. It's not recommended, obviously because it can be difficult to replace what the veg is providing.
If he has not had veg before now, and it does seem to be causing him issues then you could slowly introduce one veg at a time - something like bell pepper would be good, red/yellow/orange, as these are very high in vit.c. You could alternate it with fresh and dried grass over a good few weeks so that his body gets used to it, before trying to introduce a second type of veg.

But I would chat to your vet about doing this first, as it could cause more problems then you currently have, especially if veg isn't the cause of his current issues.

 

[Carolinemm]

you can in extreme situations not feed veggies, providing you are giving them enough vit.c from other sources - pellets, in their water, etc. It's not recommended, obviously because it can be difficult to replace what the veg is providing.
If he has not had veg before now, and it does seem to be causing him issues then you could slowly introduce one veg at a time - something like bell pepper would be good, red/yellow/orange, as these are very high in vit.c. You could alternate it with fresh and dried grass over a good few weeks so that his body gets used to it, before trying to introduce a second type of veg.

But I would chat to your vet about doing this first, as it could cause more problems then you currently have, especially if veg isn't the cause of his current issues.

Thanks, yes I did do it bit by bit at the start and he really doesnt have much overall as I'm always worried about soft poos, but perhaps even that much is too much? Back to the beginning perhaps! Thanks

 

[flintstones]

With Patrick I am giving a Vit C tablet daily (oxbow) and he is on just hay and grass granted I have just started this routine. My plan is to gradually introduce his veg one by one if he ever stops squeaking however my vet did advice feeding him a mainly hay diet.

Now to admit to my crazyness - Guinea Pig's need D3 which is prescribed in there pellets and from the sun. As Patrick is not getting any pellets I'm making sure he get's to see natural sunlight once a day for 30 minutes. I just hope he doesn't lose weight.

 

[Carolinemm]

With Patrick I am giving a Vit C tablet daily (oxbow) and he is on just hay and grass granted I have just started this routine. My plan is to gradually introduce his veg one by one if he ever stops squeaking however my vet did advice feeding him a mainly hay diet.

Now to admit to my crazyness - Guinea Pig's need D3 which is prescribed in there pellets and from the sun. As Patrick is not getting any pellets I'm making sure he get's to see natural sunlight once a day for 30 minutes. I just hope he doesn't lose weight.

Hmm yes she did say last week good quality hay is all they need really, as she knew I was giving a vit c tablet every day....just seems that it would take a long time for them to become deficient in vit c if ever with a supplement and it being added to the pellets...but UTIs are immediate and with your poor patrick, chronic. I'm sure all the research has been done, of course I'm aware they need other vitamins from veg too..but its good to know its a route people are trying, we just all want to get it right after all! Good tip on the sunlight too as we need that to synthesize vit D too dont we! thank you x

 

[gogoguineas]

Just another thought, i know you're worried about the veg but i was told that a little bit of fresh beetroot helps stop the build up of calcium, it neutralises it. I lost a piggie to a bladder stone a couple of years ago but only found this out recently so I have started giving my two just a couple of slices of the stuff once a week or so.

 

[Carolinemm]

Just another thought, i know you're worried about the veg but i was told that a little bit of fresh beetroot helps stop the build up of calcium, it neutralises it. I lost a piggie to a bladder stone a couple of years ago but only found this out recently so I have started giving my two just a couple of slices of the stuff once a week or so.

Thanks very much for that - all help appreciated . I havent managed to speak to the vet but the results of Pipkins urine cultures are back - no infection... so it is the crystals causing the problem. She mentioned something about some new treatment from the US last time I was there, hopefully we'll decide a way forward when I talk to her but hes still in pain, the pain relief/anti inflam twice a day isnt really helping, but thankfully he still has a good appetite and munches hay all day and has the odd few pellets and I'm still giving him tiny bit of pepper, and he loves his vitC tablet so of course having that every day. I know there are so many having these issues its so frustrating! x

 

[flintstones]

Thanks very much for that - all help appreciated . I havent managed to speak to the vet but the results of Pipkins urine cultures are back - no infection... so it is the crystals causing the problem. She mentioned something about some new treatment from the US last time I was there, hopefully we'll decide a way forward when I talk to her but hes still in pain, the pain relief/anti inflam twice a day isnt really helping, but thankfully he still has a good appetite and munches hay all day and has the odd few pellets and I'm still giving him tiny bit of pepper, and he loves his vitC tablet so of course having that every day. I know there are so many having these issues its so frustrating! x

Hi Caroline -

I'm sorry the bladder flush was short lived but glad I read this as I was considering asking the vet to do this. Perhaps discuss Cytease with your vet as it coats the bladder to stop the crystals damaging his bladder.

Patrick starting bleeding again, he isn't getting any veg or nuggets and still crying all the time - so will get him some meds. What pain relief is he on? Patrick is on Metacam but I'm worried about long term use so going discuss if there is any other pain relief we can give.

I was just curious, how old is your Pipkins?

if you decide to try the drug in the US - can you let know the name.

 

[Carolinemm]

Hi Caroline -

I'm sorry the bladder flush was short lived but glad I read this as I was considering asking the vet to do this. Perhaps discuss Cytease with your vet as it coats the bladder to stop the crystals damaging his bladder.

Patrick starting bleeding again, he isn't getting any veg or nuggets and still crying all the time - so will get him some meds. What pain relief is he on? Patrick is on Metacam but I'm worried about long term use so going discuss if there is any other pain relief we can give.

I was just curious, how old is your Pipkins?

if you decide to try the drug in the US - can you let know the name.

Hiya, yep picking up cystease tomorrow I think its worth a try...also cutting out veg just in the short term. She wants me to limit pellets (because of the added calcium) but not cut them out, although he doesnt eat much anyway lots of hay though which is great. She said neutering him may help when hes better we can try that as although hes young (20 months) there was some 'man stuff' (!) that came out in his flush I think she said (he was from a free ad - the rspca had tried to take him first they wouldnt hand him over, so not neutered, then got bloat so I was waiting a few weeks until after hed recovered to get him done!). I was really hoping the flush would help, shes still keen to do another because she said a lot came out in it...although shed hope for it to have worked a bit better than it has. Hes on a pretty high dose of Loxicom twice daily still (which is the same ingredient as Metacam) and she mentioned other pain killers but she not keen to try those for whatever reason at the moment. Were trying the dietary changes for a week or so and I need to call her next Tuesday to discuss how hes doing... I'm also watching your thread and forgot to ask about the thing from US! she speaks so fast there was a lot of info to take in Ill ask next week...x poor patrick he sounds like hes got it a little rougher and its gone on so so long! I'm not seeing any blood mind you, I never did, just very sludgy wee still...

 

[Carolinemm]

almost forgot, I asked if it could be anything to do with the Vit C tablet as its a 60mg every day she said it does sound quite high, so I'm cutting this out just for a few days also...

 

[first_time_piggie_mum]

Jeez you guys are having a hard time arent you, poor Piggies and Patrick sounds like hes having a very hard time I hated it when I heard Rodney crying in pain

Hope you both manage to sort it all out for them x

 

[flintstones]

Patrick's on loxicom too.

Following on from what you where saying re-neutering I know another pig who was having horrific bladder issues due to over production of sperm rods being caught in his penis - he was neutered and this did solve his problems. He was in a lot of pain to and also had his bladder flushed.

Well if we both make any progress we can discuss notes - Patrick bless him he does take it in his stride although when I put him in the cage today he saw a slice of pepper his friend had left never seen a pig move so far as he grabbed and ran poor sod - hard not giving veggies but tempted to get some nice hay's and try on a temporary hay only diet maybe the grass is causing his problems you never know!

X

 

[Carolinemm]

Patrick's on loxicom too.

Following on from what you where saying re-neutering I know another pig who was having horrific bladder issues due to over production of sperm rods being caught in his penis - he was neutered and this did solve his problems. He was in a lot of pain to and also had his bladder flushed.

Well if we both make any progress we can discuss notes - Patrick bless him he does take it in his stride although when I put him in the cage today he saw a slice of pepper his friend had left never seen a pig move so far as he grabbed and ran poor sod - hard not giving veggies but tempted to get some nice hay's and try on a temporary hay only diet maybe the grass is causing his problems you never know!

X

ooh thats really interesting then...thanks for that. I'm not sure if I dare say it but Ive been working at home all afternoon and havent heard him squeak once! We might be making some progress...hes still on pain relief tho. Ill keep you posted. How is Patrick? xx

 

[flintstones]

ooh thats really interesting then...thanks for that. I'm not sure if I dare say it but Ive been working at home all afternoon and havent heard him squeak once! We might be making some progress...hes still on pain relief tho. Ill keep you posted. How is Patrick? xx

Poor little Patrick was ignored today I was at the vets as my other pig as he's under investigation, I was hoping we could squeeze Patrick in but my other pig took up the full consult - so will have to book another appointment, he is going to get a urine culture done at the next appointment! xx

 

[Carolinemm]

Poor little Patrick was ignored today I was at the vets as my other pig as he's under investigation, I was hoping we could squeeze Patrick in but my other pig took up the full consult - so will have to book another appointment, he is going to get a urine culture done at the next appointment! xx

Ahh I hope your other piggy is ok! Thankfully ginger who was also squeaking when weeing for a short time is absolutely fine now (touch wood). Anyway Pipkin is not at all better, Ive seen spots of blood today for the first time and he seems a little bit subdued hiding away all the time. Hes had 2 doses of the cystease and it doesnt seem to have helped yet its all very upsetting, I just cant understand why someone doesnt know what this is yet, I really cant understand why we have these issues and all the piggies have the same symptoms yet noone gets to the bottom of it....sorry just feeling frustrated hes worse not better...he also needs a bath his little grease gland needs a wash but he gets so stressed out I'm not sure if I should or not..xx

 

[Carolinemm]

Hi, well I havent posted for a while, Ive been trying to see what might be going on with Pipkin for a few weeks whilst reading other people threads and sypathising massively!

Basically he was:
Treated for 'cystitis' given baytril for 1 week, then he got bloat few days after, so we xrayed him conscious to have a bit of a look for stones, no stones, - got meds for bloat and his bloat went. He was perfectly well for 1 month then....the squeaking when urinating returned so..

About 2 weeks of septrin antiobiotic - no effect, then probably a few days into the septrin he had:
Ultrasound (she couldnt see anything so...)
Xray under GA + bladder flush + taken urine sample - result: lots grit/crytals (whatever!) came out with the flush, no stones or signs of stones at all and no infection so we stopped antibiotics.
He was still squeaking so we tried...
Cystaid - been about 3 weeks now I think?...

Been on high doses of meloxivet twice a day increasing the dose as its not going as time went on...
No more than handful pellets a day
Limited veg and even then only tiny bits pepper
Dandelions in the morning with his cystaid on......

Seemed to almost be getting worse, squeaks louder so we tried:
Neutering - this was exactly 1 week ago today. He did brilliantly, was eating immediately etc He had another bladder flush at the same time and she said there were almost no gritty deposits this time.

So far:
Hes still sqeaking, but now it seems very intermitent to the point where I'm leaving off pain relief sometimes at night...and I would say Sat, Sun and yesterday he was squeaking but he started again on Monday and Tuesday....possibly as I left off the pain relief/anti-inflam Sat night and Sunday?

He chatters his teeth sometimes when hes pooing but other times they come out easy as anything...they said his bladder wall is not inflammed....errmmmm right think thats it! So still not fixed, no other answers. I discussed the syringing of the veg juice and the vet doesnt seem keen that I do that so I wont for now....She said best now to wait until all possible sperm production over (new paper suggests 8weeks!) then we'll take it from there....hes still getting odd gritty deposits on his bedding but not as much.

Question to anyone where Cystaid has worked with theirs...how long did it take to def work and did you try and take them off it and then they were bad again so you started it up again? just interested to know....

oh and think I'm going to try the beetroot thing as someone has said before I'm not sure he'll like it tho! he doesnt even like cucumber!

Right best get back to work seen as I'm many hundreds of pounds lighter lately!
xx