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Uti Or Stones? :(

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Sanderling

Sanderling

Junior Guinea Pig
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Sorry for the very long post. I am very stressed about what to do. :soz:

So about a week ago I noticed blood in one of my pig's (Picchu) urine. I took both of my pigs to the nearest exotics vets because Machu started showing signs of a URI. So weird that they both got ill at the same time?! The vet thought I was right, but that I'd caught it early, and she prescribed baytril for both of them. Machu, being heavier, was prescribed 0.3 ml, Picchu 0.2 mls, except either the vet or receptionist had written it down wrong so for the first day I gave them 3 ml and 2 ml, because I'm afraid I didn't know any better! Both went off food and then I realised that the doses were WAY too high. So I explained the problem to the vets and they gave me 0.2 ml and 0.3 ml. Machu is now eating fine and seems to be doing very well. I also have been putting probiotics in their water. But Picchu didn't seem to recover.

There was more blood in Picchu's urine, and he still wouldn't eat, all I could get into him was some lettuce from a mixed salad and some spinach (but I gave him hardly any because I know it's bad for them). He went from 1.1 kg to 906 g in under 2 days, so I took him back to the vet yesterday at 2.30 pm in the hope I could get them to change the antibiotic. My reasoning was that if it was the UTI that was making him ill, the baytril wasn't working so we needed to change antibiotics. Or, if it was the baytril that was making him ill, we still needed to change the antibiotics!

I saw a different vet and she checked his heart, breathing, and felt around (I presume for stones?) and prescribed him 0.4 ml of septrin twice a day and 0.3 ml loxicom once a day. I came away feeling happier. I have been feeding him mushed up (with water) pellets, and this morning he came over to eat celery and lettuce. The problem I have now, is I felt where he had been sitting (hunched up) most of the night and it seemed to the touch mostly dry, and there has been no more blood. I have syringed him some water also, but I am extremely concerned that he in fact has bladder stones. It seems odd that the vet didn't think we needed to give him an x ray? I can't take him back to the vet today because I'm stuck at home without a car! I would be worried that the stress of another vet visit wouldn't do him any good. He spends most of the time in his igloo. He hasn't ever even squeaked quietly when urinating or pooing. His droppings are small but are otherwise normal. Machu's were the same, but now he has started eating again they are back to normal. I don't know if Picchu's poos are small because of the lack of food/water or because of stones. I hadn't syringed him any water before this morning because I thought he was drinking by himself yesterday, but I haven't seen him drink since. He is quite happy to jump in and out of the hay tray no problem. I haven't seen any sludge/grit/white powder in their urine. I weighed him this morning and he weighed 926 g, which at least means he is not losing weight rapidly like before. I am so stressed about what to do now, or if he's going to be ok. I thought maybe somebody else could give me their opinion? :(

I think that's all the info...!
Thank you :)
 
Thank god! Update: Picchu just peed. i feel more hopeful now. It was a good amount and he didn't seem in pain. It seemed normal too. Maybe he was just dehydrated?
 
Possibly or maybe he's been moving when you weren't there and urinating elsewhere. His reduced food intake will change the size of his output. Just continue with the medication and if there's any further signs of blood then I would take him back to be Xrayed once his antibiotics course is complete or take him back earlier if he detoriates further.
 
Sanderling said:
Thank god! Update: Picchu just peed. i feel more hopeful now. It was a good amount and he didn't seem in pain. It seemed normal too. Maybe he was just dehydrated?
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Baytril is known to be an appetite killer even at normal strength, so giving him a 10 times higher dose could have led to problems. This is what the second vet assumed and what is most likely to be behind his not eating and drinking.

Please always step in with syringe feeding and watering asap; it is really vital! A guinea pig that is not eating and drinking at all is losing about 100g in a day. You are likely to see some funny poos until the guts have picked up. What most people are not aware of is that the majority of the food is hay, so just a little veg is by far not enough. Please continue to offer him mushed pellets and water, as much as he will take in addition to what he is eating normally.
Please read the information in our guide: Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

If his symptoms don't subside or come back, or if the bleeding or pain is continuing despite the septrin, then it is time for a scan or x-ray to check for stones. Has your vet given you some metacam for the pain and as an anti-inflammatory? Please be aware that any antibiotic needs several days before it is working fully, so it takes at least 2-3 days for any symptoms to come down. Septrin is a bit slower to work than baytril, but it is more effective. You need to give it longer than just a week.

Any antibiotic does not only kill the bad bacteria, but also the good ones in the guts, so it would be good if your gave each of your boys a pinch of probiotic twice a day. I have doubled my recommendation in view of the baytril overdose. it is a food supplement, not a medication, so there is no problem with overdosing.
You can find the necessary information in our syringe feeding guide. In any emergency, a shop brand will do until you can order one online and have it delivered. Generally, we recommend to have some at home, in case of illness.

As your boys have both started at the same time, coinciding with the onset of the cold weather, it is more likely that it is UTI. How are they housed? Have they been in contact with cold/damp surfaces or drafts or sudden swings of temperature? Please make sure that they are warm and well out of any drafts.
 
Thank you so much for the information. I will continue to hand feed and make sure he is getting enough water. I am afraid I cannot get him to eat hay, although it is of course always available.

Wiebke - they are housed indoors on towels and fleece in a 4 x 3 C&C cage, they are away from drafts and although I do try to keep the temperature relatively constant, the sudden cold weather has made it a little cooler, especially at night. I change the fleece and towels every few days but they do tend to sit in the spot they like to wee in (and so inevitably it gets a little damp). I will try to change the bedding in this spot more frequently in future. The vet has prescribed 0.3 ml of the anti-inflammatory loxicom once a day, but no pain killers.
 
Sanderling said:
Thank you so much for the information. I will continue to hand feed and make sure he is getting enough water. I am afraid I cannot get him to eat hay, although it is of course always available.

Wiebke - they are housed indoors on towels and fleece in a 4 x 3 C&C cage, they are away from drafts and although I do try to keep the temperature relatively constant, the sudden cold weather has made it a little cooler, especially at night. I change the fleece and towels every few days but they do tend to sit in the spot they like to wee in (and so inevitably it gets a little damp). I will try to change the bedding in this spot more frequently in future. The vet has prescribed 0.3 ml of the anti-inflammatory loxicom once a day, but no pain killers.
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Sorry, loxicom is the same as metacam. I am multitasking at the moment. It is both an anti-inflammatory and a painkiller. So that is good and will help with the discomfort. There is a range of issues lumped under "UTI", which present with very similar symptoms.

Please continue to syringe feed if he is not eating hay; it is very important that he gets his fibre to re-balance his guts and to get the weight up. It may take some time after the baytril has knocked them out. Don't forget to syringe as much water as will take in one go, too. Please follow the recommendations as to overall amounts and frequency.
You can also put some brown paper or cardboard, or a toilet or kitchen paper roll in the cage. Guinea pigs seem to have a craving for arough, nutritionally poor fibre after a severe illness/tummy upset.

You may want to place an extra fleece patch or cosy in their toilet corner, which you can change daily; that is what I do with my elderly piggies. They also have got their microwaveable snugglesafes (preferably hidden under or in a cosy) for very cold nights, as we turn down the heating. If the cage is near a window or on the floor, you can block a flow of colder air with another towel or fleece. it makes a difference. But it is important that we double check the housing. ;)
 
I've just hand fed him about 6 ml pellets and some water, before he absolutely refused to take any more. He has just nibbled at some hay though, and urinated twice. :)
 
Wiebke said:
You can also put some brown paper or cardboard, or a toilet or kitchen paper roll in the cage. Guinea pigs seem to have a craving for arough, nutritionally poor fibre after a severe illness/tummy upset.

You may want to place an extra fleece patch or cosy in their toilet corner, which you can change daily; that is what I do with my elderly piggies. They also have got their microwaveable snugglesafes (preferably hidden under or in a cosy) for very cold nights, as we turn down the heating. If the cage is near a window or on the floor, you can block a flow of colder air with another towel or fleece. it makes a difference. But it is important that we double check the housing. ;)
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Thank you, I will take your advice. That could explain why Machu has started chewing on their cardboard box more?
 
Sanderling said:
I've just hand fed him about 6 ml pellets and some water, before he absolutely refused to take any more. He has just nibbled at some hay though, and urinated twice. :)
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You adjust the frequency of syringe feeds to the amount he can cope with any time. if it is less than 10 ml, then please feed every 2-3 hours during the day, and I deally 2-3 times during the night. It is a hard and time consuming slog, but it is worth it!
 
Picchu has been eating some hay on his own, and i hand fed him once in the night (late to bed, up early and he was eating hay). He is taking between 15 to 20 mls of pellets in go now. However, I found a couple of small blood clots (?) in his urine. His weight hasn't changed considerably, and it has only been 2 days with the septrin, but I'm still worried.
 
It will take a few days for the antibiotics to kick in. Is he displaying signs of pain? I know my Pebbles had a very stubborn UTI and it took a few weeks to clear. It's good his weight hasn't really changed as it means he's maintaining. Can be really stressful when you have a sick pig.
 
flintstones said:
It will take a few days for the antibiotics to kick in. Is he displaying signs of pain? I know my Pebbles had a very stubborn UTI and it took a few weeks to clear. It's good his weight hasn't really changed as it means he's maintaining. Can be really stressful when you have a sick pig.
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Thank you, this has helped to reassure me a lot! I will decide in the morning what would be best: I honestly don't want to put him through the stress of another vet visit if possible as he was very scared last time and the waiting room was full of dogs and cats, which didn't help! However, there has been quite a lot of blood in his urine today, which does concern me, although his poos are looking a lot better.
 
How is he in himself? Eating etc...

I generally Xray early to rule out stones, as I prefer to know what we're dealing with. I would recommend leaving him tonight and then in the morning check his Urine again if your still not happy then have him Xrayed to give you peace of mind. My vet can Xray without Sedation, it's worth asking if they need to sedate?
 
I'm taking him back to the vets for 7:30 and they are going to decide whether to give him an X-ray, but I think I will push for one so that we know what we're dealing with :)
 
Thank you for all your advice, He's staying at the vets tonight where they can monitor him etc. and then they will give him an X-ray and scan tomorrow. I am trying to be positive but I am very concerned. I think the likelihood of him having bladder stones is quite high.
 
Don't worry a bladder stone is very operable I know it's difficult but stay positive. Most importantly don't jump to conclusions, you'll be amazed just how wrong you can be. I'm so use to being wrong I don't even try and predict what the conclusion will be. Deal with the facts tomorrow and try not to worry!
 
There was indeed a bladder stone. They operated on him almost immediately and he is now recovering, still at the vets. I am honestly so relieved, and it looks like he is going to make a full recovery:yahoo:
I do just wish I'd asked for an X-ray first, but at least I know that now if there's a next time! :)
 
I am afraid there was a very sad turn of events. The vet seemed confident that Picchu was going to recover from the operation, and indeed it seemed that that would be the case: he was eating and pooing during the night after the operation. But he died at 8 o clock yesterday morning. I am absolutely distraught: I honestly thought that he was going to make a full recovery. The anaesthetic must have just been too much for his little body. I am just glad that his brother Machu didn't have to witness his death.
I now have a problem, because Machu is on his own and I need to either rehome him or find him a friend. The idea of losing him as well and being piggy-free is just such a horrible thought. The nearby rescue doesn't seem to have any lone boars and I'm not sure I could afford the adoption fee (I've just spent £400 on Picchu, and of course I would do this again if it was necessary but it was a lot of money). I have found a breeder very close to where I live, but I do feel terrible that I wouldn't be rehoming one. Also, Machu no longer has a URI and has just finished his course of antibiotics. How soon can I introduce another Guinea pig?
I know it seems so soon after Picchu's death but it's not about how I feel (it seems way too soon to be thinking about this) but Machu is a very sociable piggy and I am concerned how long he can be without a friend. :(
 
Just found out that the adoption fee is only £15. Silly me, I can afford this. I will contact them for advice.
 
So sorry, such a sad ending. Definitely worthwhile contacting the rescue and asking about Boar dating.
 
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