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Uti?

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Hay-a-holics

I feel so sick with worry, one of our piggies is bleeding got such a fright when I saw it on the newspaper so have washed the area and gave her 1ml of honey to start with have her booked in at the vets for 5pm today (earliest I can get her in) in the mean time put in a snuggle safe heat pad she sat on it for a while them went off to hide in the hay.
Have put avi pro in the water bottle am hoping she'll drink it. If not I'll give her some via syringe..or is it better to give it with a teaspoon?

Hubby is bringing back cranberry juice and pearl barley this afternoon not sure if it's ok to use both? Any ideas?

Poor thing is in pain I can tell by her I rekon they will give her antibiotics but should I ask for a pain killer for her as well she's eating but the pain is putting her off so she's not eating enough.

Is there anything else I should/shouldn't do in the mean time?

Also although I think it's a UTI should they check for kidney/bladder stones or is there anything else I should be asking them to look for.
 
Make sure she gets some painkiller as well as antibiotics!
Ask your vet if is willing to give septrin rather than baytril.

If possible, take a urine sample in a syringe for testing and keep it in the fridge for the time being. If in doubt whether there is a stone involved, have a x-ray without GA done (so she's willing to keep still for a moment). You seem to be quite expereinced, anyway!

Was it just spots of fresh red blood or very red stained urine? Sometimes, guinea pigs can have reddish urine that doesn't have any blood in it, often in connection with UTI. It tends to freak out loving owners!
My Llewelyn, who's being treated for cystitis right now, had this red urine. But the test taken from this urine didn't show up any blood.

Can you feel or see any grit in the urine? That could point towards crystals or a stone in the bladder.

Good luck at the vets and best wishes to the poorly patient!
 
Didn't get a chance to check back before I went, she was given a Baytril injection and have been given some to give her over the next while but vet said if there are no improvements to bring her back straight away to try a diff. antibiotic. Tribrissen I think it was he said. I will mention the Septrin.
Would Septrin be any more harsh on the stomach than Tribrissen?

Hubby couldn't find any pearl barley I couldn't find any either but didn't get a chance to check the health food shops but did get Cranberry Juice and have been giving her that she's not that fond of it bless her. She doesn't even like honey much either.

There was definetly blood in the urine, unfortunely a lot of blood, pretty much half pee half blood and also some crusting it resembles sand.
He felt her stomach before and after she peed for stones or lumps or anything unusual but it felt normal but her 'pee area' (not sure how graphic I can be) is swollen and sore.

Because of the grit do you to think although they couldn't feel any stones that she should have an X-ray anyway (without GA esp. as she should sit still).

I've been running around like a headless chicken today if it was someone elses guinea pig I'd give them point by point steps but because she's my own I'm just panicking and can't think straight (hence all my waffling).
 
Tribrissen is Septrin combined with another antibiotic, sulfadiazine.
Baytril is not particularly effective against a UTI.
I would very much doubt that the urine was 50/50 with blood.
Just think how little Ribena it takes to turn a glass of water a deep red colour.
There is NO need for a GA to take an X-ray.
Many sows pass sand/grit with only minor problems. Plenty of cranberry juice is the initial treatment. Antibiotics are often prescribed on a "just in case" basis. A UTI is not always present with sand etc in the urinary tract.
Easier said than done, if you have not had a pig with this condition before, but the best advice for you is "Don't panic"
I currently have a visiting 5 year old sow who is squeaking and passing blood.
An Xray has not shown a stone. Treatment, for now, is cranberry juice and plenty of it.
 
Thanks for that, I've given her her second dose of honey and a dose of cranberry juice this evening. I also gave her some Avi pro directly as well because she wasn't going near the water bottle she liked the taste of that at least.

Out of curiosity what brand of cranberry juice do you use?
 
Update on our guinea 'Giggles', she's a lot brighter this morning but last night she still wasn't eating needed to get some banana and fluids etc into her so I figured it would be easier to mush it all together rather than giving her three or four seperate syringes of food.

So mashed some guinea pig food, banana, cranberry juice and avi pro together and gave her some. It seemed to perk her up.

This morning I gave her 1ml of honey and then 1ml of cranberry juice she then attempted to eat some grass would prefer if she ate hay but it's better than nothing. Also gave her a pain killer so waiting for that to kick in now and hopefully by 11 am that will start to work and she'll start to eat if she still hasn't eaten by 11.30 I'll syringe some food into her again and continue doing so until she starts to eat.

Critical care is probably better but can't get it where I am and I figure between the avi pro and the banana and food she should get what she needs what do you think? I know I could use Complan will see how things go.

She's been very good and last night she was quiet and easy to syringe feed, I rekon she was groggy as well from the antibiotic. This morning she actually resisted and it was great to see her pushing me away.

Couldn't see any blood in the urine this morning but she could of peed right in the hay but if she'd passed as much as she had yesterday I rekon I would of spotted it a mile off.

She's hiding under a carboard box with vet bed underneath, I only have 2 vet beds the dogs have the other one at the moment I really must invest in some more and start using it permanently. The vet bed I have at the moment I've had for years and it's been given all sorts of abuse between leaving it out on the line half the winter and tumble drying and washing and general wear and tear it's such fantastic stuff and the pigs just love it. Now that they are middle aged as well their little feet could do with more comfort.

I keep having to stop myself from checking on her, I'm only disturbing her and she needs her sleep as well. If we can get the wire to reach I'm going to set up cctv so I can check how much she is actually eating. The other guinea is so greedy and is hoovering up the food, she can't believe her luck with all the extra grass and veggies she's getting she doesn't realise she's supposed to share :{
 
Quick up date on her ladyship, trying to get her to eat by herself and she had a good slice of cucumber yay! Next feed will be more solid will break up her food and see if she'll eat it in small pieces or at least rolled into a ball.
 
When we thought Carmina had a kidney infection I tried to give her cranberry juice but she hated it. Just because he was passing the shop, my OH got dried unsweetened cranberries and she liked those. So she ate the solid version but hated the juice. I don't know but maybe Giggles would like the whole ones better?

This is assuming that the whole ones are also good. I don't really know.

Sarah x
 
Ocean spray cranberry juice, any make would do as long as it is pure juice, ie not made from concentrate. You can also buy cranberry capsules from most chemist shops. It is a nuisance having to cut the capsules open and then scraping the contents into the mouth of a reluctant pig. Juice is easier!
 
I'm not sure but I thought banana can make them constipated? so might want to go easy on it!

You can buy Critical Care online at sph supplies

Sophie
x
 
Only used a little banana to replace lost potassium at the mo she took a few bites of her guinea pigs food and has chomped down on grass.
I'm hoping by this evening she'll start on the hay herself, giving her a break to make sure she's actually hungry been stuffing her with cranberry juices etc. so she's not had the chance to be really hungry.
 
I'm not sure about too much honey. It could lead to diabetes.

Has she got some pain killer?
 
Pleased to read your G/P is getting better.

My most favourite piggy is ill and on all sorts of treatment. Its a difficult time when they are ill.

Best Wishes for all,

Anders.
 
I'm not sure about too much honey. It could lead to diabetes

It's only temporary and she needs the sugar hit for energy so I don't think it's going to cause diabetes unless I kept using it when she doesn't need it. She had her last dose of honey tonight so she shouldn't need any more because she's livened up. Half of it ends up on her chin anyway lol.

She's been given pain killer and had some more for tonight, hoping by tomorow morning she won't need any more.

She's eating grass and cucumber and seems to be nibbling on hay now and then was getting worried because couldn't spot any poops but she's done some now they are regular poops but half the size hopefully they'll start looking more normal once the next lot of grass has passed through.

She's cleaning her wee face and getting back to more piggy things.

Must post some piccies soon.
 
Not happy with her progress today, I think the Bayril must be affecting her appetite so am not going to give her this evenings dose. It's making her sleepy. Eventhough she ate a nice slice of cucumber yesterday and nibbled etc. today she's not co operating. Have offered her favourite veggies and she won't touch them. She isn't eating the grass either but that could be because of the Baytril so waiting for it to wear off and see how her appetite improves.

Have ordered some Timothy hay hoping that will coax her to eat, have her booked in to the vets again first thing in the morning.

Have been trying to put tiny pieces of food into her mouth for her to chew but she bites it once then spits it out.

I think she was 600g at the vets and I weighed her today and her weight was up ie if she was 600g at the vets can't for the life of me remember what they said it was so will find out tomorow at least if I know she's putting on weight she's eating but so far no sign of her poops lately although it's hard to tell sometimes with the other greedy guinea pig butting in all the time.

This is the longest week ever! So stressed with worrying about hermallethead
 
How old is the pig?
From my experience with non-eating pigs I feel that she is very ill. You must keep giving her fluids at the very least, if the fluid intake stops her kidneys will stop functioning, irreversibly.
For once I hope I am wrong.
 
Giving her various fluids regularly, incl. cranberry juice and water and avi pro in water. Her pee is very clear now and seems to peeing regularly and no sign of blood at all.
Her appetite is concerning me more now she tries to eat veg/grass/dry food, it's as if she's forgotten how to eat properly. Wouldn't mind but although I have been syringe feeding her I've been giving her space all along between feeds for her to get hungry enough to eat.

Just cleaned their cage and put a fresh towel down and a snuggle safe heat pad, will check her again soon and try again with the solid food.
I've cut a syringe to make it wider trying to make the feeds thicker each time.

If anyone can suggest anything else, guinea pigs are terrible at ups and downs one minute they can be grand next minute they go down hill the next minute they pick up it's a real rollercoaster with them. Break your heart little monkeys.
 
There is no need to cut the end off the syringe, you do not need to make the feed too thick if she is having difficulty eating. Make sure her mouth is empty before and after syringe feeding in case she is eating normal food but not swallowing it.
 
I thought making the food a little thicker to get her to start chewing a bit more, if it's too watery it will just run through her system and she won't digest it properly at least that's what I read so much conflicting advice it's confusing.

She ate some tomatoe this morning by her self this morning which was great, were almost late for vet. appointment but I figured better let her eat as much as she feels like before disturbing her.

Had X-rays done this morning without a sedation and it showed up no sign of stones. Guinea pigs look so funny on X-Ray like little rats lol.

She was given some Metacam (sp?) for the pain she was very uncomfortable this morning poor thing. Was told if she is in pain tomorow to come in and pick up an injection for it.

Even though I know she's eating via the syringe always in doubt as to how much she's actually getting at a time was waiting all day for a poo to confirm that the food is passing through. Very hard to tell with the other pig pooing everywhere, but this afternoon she definetly did one because she was just finishing it off was relieved that it was not sludgy it was smaller than a normal poo but the right shape and colour.

Not sure how much food at a time I should be syringing her, she can manage about 2mls of food and 2 mls of fluid at a sitting then she gets really fed up and just wants to sleep. I wish she would eat more but she really gets fed up after 2mls.

Is this enough for her to be eating in one go? How many hours should be left between feeds? At the moment I'm winging it as soon as I feel she's had enough rest I feed her again, offering her solid food first to see if she'll try it before trying the syringe.
 
I wonder if it might be a good idea to get some urine test sticks? I had to order mine online as I couldn't afford £45 at the local pharmacy (that £45 is better spent at vets!) and found a tub of 100 for about £10 delivered. They cover various tests, main ones I was interested in were blood, glucose and protein. The urine can look clear and still have traces of blood due to an ifection or stone (at least stones can be ruled out now), and a test each day might give an idea as to how things are progressing. They're no substitute for a knowledgeable vet, but they are an excellent method for giving yourself a clearer picture at home all the same.

With regards to feeding, every piggie I've had that has for some reason refused to eat for themselves has lost approx 10g per hour if not syringe fed. So all I can suggest is to weigh her at least daily, and ideally maybe last thing before bed, and first thing when you get up. I try to get 6 hours sleep when syringing to give me and the piggie a break, so if you did the same then you may see up to around 60g drop. That would tell you if she's doing nothing for herself. Although if she's got digestive speed issues then that might alter things...

If her guts are moving too slowly then her appetite will be vastly reduced and she won't be getting enough nutrition. If they are moving out of rythm (or too fast, but no runny bum) then what goes in might struggle to come out. I've been through both, and the only way I knew about hypermotility/ rythm was the vet I saw listened to her back end and there were far more "waves/ gurgles" than there should be. Either way an injection of Metaclopromide is very useful, and I think given her eating problems it's well worth bringing this up with your vet asap. It can take effect in as little as an hour or so, but can be as long as 12 or more hours before you see it working. I'm not saying she *has* got gut motility issues, but it's very much something to consider, and as it can be very serious it's better to jump on asap. Probably tomorrow now, unless your vet is open late this evening.

Things have been hell here so I've not been reading each thread in detail, but did I see the vet is giving Baytril for the UTI? Baytril in my experience isn't very effective against UTIs, and it *is* quite unpleasant on the digestive system. I know many vets still see Baytril as the only available/ effective antibiotic for piggies, but I find Septrin far more effective for UTI and respiratory problems in most cases. The Septrin should be Paediatric, at a rough dose of 0.4 or 0.6ml twice daily for an approx 1kg piggie. Some Vets either won't give it as it's unlicensed for piggies (though they'll flog you cat or dog Metacam, which also isn't) or because they've not heard of it. Not only is it more likely to help with a UTI than Baytril, it is also far kinder to the gut bacteria. Piggies have such delicate digestive systems that when there's a medication that is likely to be more effective *and* less damaging to the natural gut balance, I really can't see a reason not to use it.

You need to keep up with a probiotic in conjunction with the antibiotic, given between one and two hours after the antibiotic. I add Avipro to the cranberry/ water when syringing, and also a pinch in the syringe food.

I see you've read my post on the other thread, but just to add a bit more on feeding on here - I aim for total dry weight of food in a day. 2ml syringed could be any amount of actual food value depending on how thick it's made, whereas if you look for a target weight of food in a day you can get a far better idea how many feeds are needed if it's slow going. If you use 30g dry food as a minimum, that can be between 70ish ml and 120ml when watered down to syringe depending on how easily she'll take it. I can't ever see 2ml at a time being anything like enough unless you annoy her with syringes every half hour!

Metacam is good stuff, but I suspect the vet will have said "give her one drop a day". Having sat and measured drops one evening, a drop can vary between 0.03ml and 0.07ml. That could be too little for nearly every piggie, or too much for a small one, depending on which drop you got that day! With the dog Metacam (1.5mg per ml strength) I seem to recall the dose is 0.1ml per kilo (using http://www.guinealynx.info/analgesics.html as a dose guide - 0.2milliGRAMMES of 1.5mg/ml Metacam safely works out at 0.1milliLITRES when giving. Important to stress NO MORE THAN 0.1ML as this stuff is very potent). Difficult, but not impossible to measure out with a 1ml syringe. I now have cat Metacam here as I have a poorly degu, and it's 1/3 the strength making it easier to measure in a syringe (he has to have around 0.03ml a day, or 0.01ml of dog Metacam.. You try getting that right first thing in the morning!). My suspicion is she's got no real appetite because she's in pain due to her bladder, and has slowed up a bit as a result of not eating. You MUST of course discuss this with the vet, but I personally would be looking at giving an accurate dose of Metacam, 0.4ml twice daily of Septrin, and getting a Mataclopromide injection as soon as they open in the morning. Plus upping the feeding (if she doesn't naturally pick up a bit on that after pain relief and Metaclopromide) to ensure she gets a full days worth of food in her to promote more healthy digestion.

Good luck!
 
I asked the vet could Septrin be an option and they told me that Septrin and a few other antibiotics weren't licenced for pigs here (Ireland). I was told to judge the Baytril myself and see wether to give her the doses if she's able for it, and that Baytril was the easiest on the stomach, how true that is I don't know. They said they would consider another antibiotic, now I'm armed with more info. I can explain things to them better thanks so much.

I've been trying so hard to get her to have more than 2ml at a time but once I reach the 2ml she just closes up and doesn't swallow.
I will measure out the dry food in grams as said, have written down the meds etc. you mentioned and will take her in first thing in the morning.

So far she's not lost weight in the past 2 days it's increased but only a bit.
 
I have a pig that has only been syringe fed for the last four months due to a severe dental problem. He takes about 35ml twice daily.
 
I asked the vet could Septrin be an option and they told me that Septrin and a few other antibiotics weren't licenced for pigs here (Ireland). I was told to judge the Baytril myself and see wether to give her the doses if she's able for it, and that Baytril was the easiest on the stomach, how true that is I don't know. They said they would consider another antibiotic, now I'm armed with more info. I can explain things to them better thanks so much.

Vets seem to give between 0.2ml and 0.4ml twice daily oral Baytril. I find vets that are maybe not so guinea aware go for the lower dose, but of course it also depends on the size of the piggie. And whilst I'm not knocking Baytril (I do believe it is superior to Septrin for certain ailments) my experience and that of many others is it simply isn't as effective in UTIs. More and more vets are forming this opinion too, and a local one I recently went to had never used Septrin but said it made sense it was useful in UTIs due to its use in humans (it's a human medication). Having said that, an antibiotic is only useful against the bacteria it's meant to effect, so although the most common UTI bacteria are killed off better by Septrin I'm sure there's cases where Baytril is more effective. Without a culture grown from a sample of the bacteria there's no sure way of knowing!

As for Baytril being kind on the stomach, I strongly disagree. Although it depends what the vet was comaring it to. It certainly does more damage to the gut bacteria balance than Septrin, but might do less than other antibiotics. One of, if not *the* reason we can't give piggies penicillin is it destroys the gut bacteria, with fatal consequences for the piggie. The rough guide is the broader the spectrum of bacteria the antibiotic kills, the more damage is likely to the digestive system. Though after trying azithromycin (Zithromax ) on advise from here (and speaking to the vet in question first) I didn't see any noticeable digestive upset in Pimple when she was on it for 2 weeks or more. And that is certainly a broad spectrum antibiotic!

When it comes to licensing I don't know about how it goes in Ireland, but in the UK very few meds are licensed for piggie use. However, the vets can still use them at their discretion although they may make it clear they're not responsible if you demand a medication they would not normally give and things go wrong. This is understandable, they can't leave themselves open to legal action in such a way. Like I said, Metacam isn't licensed for piggies but they're happy to dish that out, so I fail to see any reason not to give Septrin other than not knowing how useful it can be in these cases. I'm sure someone could find a UK vet that did use Septrin who'd be happy to discuss it with your vet on the phone if needs be :)

At least it sounds as though your vet isn't shut off from trying knew things.

I've been trying so hard to get her to have more than 2ml at a time but once I reach the 2ml she just closes up and doesn't swallow.
I will measure out the dry food in grams as said, have written down the meds etc. you mentioned and will take her in first thing in the morning.

How are you feeding her?

I use a 1ml syringe (actually, 15 of them, pre-prepared), and usually end up with my knees drawn up a little so they can rest "stood up" against me. Being right handed I hold them with my left hand, my fingers cradling their head to stroke and reassure (and stop them fighting the syringe if needed!) and gently push about 0.3ml at a time in their mouth. You can usually hear the swallowing noise, and I try not to force things too quickly. Sometimes they'll take it just stood normally, but this can be slow going if they do so at all. Towel wrapping can be useful for a piggie that really doesn't want to be held, for some it seems more stressful wrapping them than it is to simply hold them in place by hand. I place the tip of the syringe just behind the front teeth, maybe up to the 0.1ml mark on the side. And remove it after each press so they can chew!

Does she chew the syringed food at all? Spit any of it back out/ dribble it over her chin?

It's a little concerning if she's not making any attempt to eat :(

So far she's not lost weight in the past 2 days it's increased but only a bit.

I think you might need to have her in a cage/ box of her own for a few hours to monitor what's coming out. I suspect very little if very little is going in, but I worry her digestive system may be very out of whack meaning even what is going in isn't making a proper way out and explaining why she simply doesn't attempt to take a proper meal from the syringe. Plenty of fibre and treatment to stimulate/ correct the digestive process (ie metaclopromide, at least in the UK) is needed. Gut stasis can be very difficult to come back from, but provided the reason for it being present in the first place is addressed (in this case my guess is lack of eating properly from the UTI pain, not at all uncommon) it's by no means impossible :)
 
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