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Vet refusing to do another dental

F

FizzyLizzie

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
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Location
UK
Hello,
We have a wonderful 5 year old guinea pig boar called Chibi. He belongs to my 17 year old daughter.

Last year my daughter noticed that he wasn't eating well, his poos where small and he was pulling his hair out. We took him to a exotic pet vet near us.
The vet discovered that he had a gap in his tongue from a genetic defect. This was affecting his eating and his teeth weren't wearing down properly.
He has had 4 dentals since then at roughly 6 weeks apart.
He has also had an issue with his front paw which we treated the infection successfully with iodine but one of his toes is dead. At his last dental the vet decided that it wouldn't be fair to do anymore dentals due to his age and paw. She advised putting him down.
Chibi is unable to eat independently and is syringe fed but he can eat soft fruit independently.
He is kept indoors but goes outside with his friend on the lawn. He jumps out of his enclosure in the morning and runs around downstairs. He runs up to us and climbs up, he purrs. His paw isn't perfect but he has great mobility, running around, he even tried to jump up to my lap from the floor when I was sat on the sofa.
We are in a very difficult situation now as the vet will not do anymore dentals, we love him so much and I'm prepared to look after this little guy with feeding and he gets so much love and cuddles.
There is another vet in the area but is only available on the 1st of September and I'm not sure if they'd even do a dental.
I feel like we're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Has anyone been in a heartbreaking situation like this?
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thank you for reading.
Liz
 
CTWC said:
Hi and welcome firstly Chibi is very lucky to have you and I'm sorry your vet isn't being supportive sis he have to have an anaesthetic for his dental? 🤔
Click to expand...
Thank you and yes he did
 
I'm sorry your vet is being like this.

I have been advised to put a guinea to sleep a couple of times before, once by the local guinea rescue woman in fact, and once by a vet. A guinea I adopted when she was about 3 - her previous owners had been advised to put her to sleep by their vet just because she was constantly at the vet's and the vet couldn't figure out what the problem was. But I was never denied treatment for my guineas, I was always left to actually make the decision.

When the local guinea rescue woman advised me (I asked her), my guinea's underside was all messy, where the skin of a cyst I think it was that the cancerous growth was draining into had split from nearby skin so her underside was open in one place. A real mess. I was prepared to take her to the vet's but when I looked in her cage again, she was standing up right as rain and eating. So I looked for and found another solution - a kind of wonder ointment that I think my own doctor told me about. That was old Suzie. She didn't live much longer - maybe 6 weeks or so I can't remember exactly. I waited till she told me with their eyes that she didn't want to continue. By that time she couldn't really walk anymore; up until her eyes showed me she still had quality of life. I knew her signs so well that I could tell. I can't remember exactly, but she was 8-9 yo when I finally had her put to sleep, and she'd had mammary tumours for over 2 years. And she just kept on going. My vet was flabbergasted.

It sounds to me as if Chibi still has quality of life - the way he runs around and all those things you describe. I wonder if your vet would react the same way about a bigger pet, say a dog or a cat? Decades ago in my childhood my mother would opine that much vet intervention for guineas wouldn't be 'worth it for the guinea'. Occasionally our guineas did get vet treatment, but my mother wasn't that way about the dog for instance. I don't even think it was about the money for the guinea vet care for my mother, it was some deep-seated belief that a very little animal sweet as he or she was, was just too little and weak to go thru an operation, and maybe too weak to go through the pain and struggle, too small and weak to want to. I'm wondering if there might be something like that going on with your vet with this idea that continuing to do dentals for Chibi is 'unfair'?

Does Chibi think it's unfair? Is Chibi refusing to be syringe-fed? I don't think so from what you say. Is he going head-first into a corner and sitting there all day? Doesn't sound like it from what you write! Those are two things a guinea might well do to show you they've had enough of this life.

Even if at some point the number of regular anaesthetics became too much for his body, then he'd either pass under the anaesthetic or maybe the vet would have to give him a bit more medication or different medication to hasten and ease his passing under the anaesthetic. I don't see a reason to give up now, from what you describe.

Of course, I can't observe Chibi the way a vet can, and I don't have veterinary knowledge - I'm not a vet or even a human health care provider but these are the things that occur to me.

Keeping you in my thoughts. Hoping for a change of mind for the vet.
 
I am so sorry your situation is so difficult. Chibi sounds like a wonderful little chap and although I can't advise I can send you hugs and positive vibes xx
 
Mrs Tiggy Winkle said:
I'm sorry your vet is being like this.

I have been advised to put a guinea to sleep a couple of times before, once by the local guinea rescue woman in fact, and once by a vet. A guinea I adopted when she was about 3 - her previous owners had been advised to put her to sleep by their vet just because she was constantly at the vet's and the vet couldn't figure out what the problem was. But I was never denied treatment for my guineas, I was always left to actually make the decision.

When the local guinea rescue woman advised me (I asked her), my guinea's underside was all messy, where the skin of a cyst I think it was that the cancerous growth was draining into had split from nearby skin so her underside was open in one place. A real mess. I was prepared to take her to the vet's but when I looked in her cage again, she was standing up right as rain and eating. So I looked for and found another solution - a kind of wonder ointment that I think my own doctor told me about. That was old Suzie. She didn't live much longer - maybe 6 weeks or so I can't remember exactly. I waited till she told me with their eyes that she didn't want to continue. By that time she couldn't really walk anymore; up until her eyes showed me she still had quality of life. I knew her signs so well that I could tell. I can't remember exactly, but she was 8-9 yo when I finally had her put to sleep, and she'd had mammary tumours for over 2 years. And she just kept on going. My vet was flabbergasted.

It sounds to me as if Chibi still has quality of life - the way he runs around and all those things you describe. I wonder if your vet would react the same way about a bigger pet, say a dog or a cat? Decades ago in my childhood my mother would opine that much vet intervention for guineas wouldn't be 'worth it for the guinea'. Occasionally our guineas did get vet treatment, but my mother wasn't that way about the dog for instance. I don't even think it was about the money for the guinea vet care for my mother, it was some deep-seated belief that a very little animal sweet as he or she was, was just too little and weak to go thru an operation, and maybe too weak to go through the pain and struggle, too small and weak to want to. I'm wondering if there might be something like that going on with your vet with this idea that continuing to do dentals for Chibi is 'unfair'?

Does Chibi think it's unfair? Is Chibi refusing to be syringe-fed? I don't think so from what you say. Is he going head-first into a corner and sitting there all day? Doesn't sound like it from what you write! Those are two things a guinea might well do to show you they've had enough of this life.

Even if at some point the number of regular anaesthetics became too much for his body, then he'd either pass under the anaesthetic or maybe the vet would have to give him a bit more medication or different medication to hasten and ease his passing under the anaesthetic. I don't see a reason to give up now, from what you describe.

Of course, I can't observe Chibi the way a vet can, and I don't have veterinary knowledge - I'm not a vet or even a human health care provider but these are the things that occur to me.

Keeping you in my thoughts. Hoping for a change of mind for the vet.
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Thank you for your reply.
I hate the fact that the choice has been taken away from me.
The vet wanted to put Chibi down a couple of weeks when he had the foot infection, he was in for his dental. I was going to go ahead with it as i felt the vet must know best but my daughter was on hoilday and I felt so sad that she'd never say goodbye. So I rang back and said no. Like I said in my previous post I treated it with iodine. I just feel the vet wasn't impressed that I went against her advice. She did however do the dental.
Since his last dental he's been doing OK.
However I know he's not completely happy, he is subdued when he's in his enclosure and faces the side.
He loves to be held though and would want to be held all the time.
I'm wondering how long I can put off the inevitable. His teeth are growing back quickly at the front and have no idea what they are like at the back. The vet said before that without dental his teeth would grow into his eyesocket😢
I just wish there was someone who would do the dental because I can take care of everything else, my choice has been taken away and with it his precious life.
I'm in turmoil over this and the guilt is horrible, I don't know what to do for the best, i love him so much😭
 
FizzyLizzie said:
However I know he's not completely happy, he is subdued when he's in his enclosure and faces the side.
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I have been told that facing the side, especially if piggie can't see out of the side, can be like nose-in-the-corner, so wanting to go.

Being subdued can be age-related rather than actually piggie wanting to go, but I can't say for someone else's piggie. I had very old oldies who lay and slept most of the day, just getting up to toddle about looking for something to eat, taking bits of cuc and communicating a bit with me and cagemates. But if it's a different kind of subdued, it could be a wanting-to-go / give-up kind of thing. I think you would be a better judge of that.

How is he with his cagemate? Still interested in each other? Communicating? Or more ignoring?

FizzyLizzie said:
I hate the fact that the choice has been taken away from me.
Click to expand...
I would find that frustrating if not maddening too.

Sending support :hug:

P.S. Do you have a photo of Chibi? We love seeing guinea pigtures on here
 
I agree with Yvonne that it is well worth getting a second opinion. I'm surprised that the vet has given up as you are keen to keep up the treatment and it seems to work when it is done. Whereabouts are you based?
 
Definitely agree a second opinion is warranted here, preferably with a very piggy savvy vet. Not sure if you can travel this far but
Cat and Rabbit Clinic at Northampton
Evolution exotic referrals in Shropshire
Cheshire Pet at Holmes Chapel in Cheshire
Are all good options, don't give up just yet!
 
I'm in Salisbury in the south of England so those suggested places are very far from me. He would need dentals every 6 weeks.
I should have said in my first post that I have an appointment on Tuesday to have him put to sleep because I don't want him to be in agony from his teeth but I'm not sure if he is at that point yet.
Anyone know of any vets in my area that might do a dental?
I'm thinking of cancelling the appointment. My daughter is saying I need to make the decision, she is logical with a big heart and I always follow my ❤️
 
FizzyLizzie said:
I'm in Salisbury in the south of England so those suggested places are very far from me. He would need dentals every 6 weeks.
I should have said in my first post that I have an appointment on Tuesday to have him put to sleep because I don't want him to be in agony from his teeth but I'm not sure if he is at that point yet.
Anyone know of any vets in my area that might do a dental?
I'm thinking of cancelling the appointment. My daughter is saying I need to make the decision, she is logical with a big heart and I always follow my ❤️
Click to expand...
Drove vets in Swindon have an excellent hospital.
They were very good when we lived in Marlborough
 
CTWC said:
Don't feel pressured by your existing vet at least get another vets opinion 🙏
Click to expand...
Thank you! Yes I've decided to do that. My next-door neighbour has recommended her vet. I've cancelled the appointment on Tuesday and will get the option of this other vet.
Thank you everyone so far for all your support, you really are a lovely community🥰
 
Hi, sorry to hear about your problem .As you live in Salisbury Anton Vets in Andover may be nearer than Swindon and they have exotics vets.A lady called Rebekka is excellent and very experienced in dealing with Guinea pig teeth issues .Maybe worth a try..🤔.
 
Unfortunately I’ve found recently that Drove Vets in Swindon haven’t actually been that great for my piggies. They have wrongly prescribed my piggy penicillin. Which is poisonous to them and also didn’t want to operate on my piggy with a tooth root abscess. I’m pleased they were honest about that with me though. I have travelled from Swindon to the Cat and Rabbit Clinic in Northampton. I hope you can get some answers soon.
 
I've decided it's time😭
I reread the email from the vets, her it is.

Thank you for your email regarding Chibi. We are very sorry to hear that he is unwell. However, after discussions with the exotic team, regrettably it has been decided to withdraw our veterinary care as we do not feel that continuing procedures is in the best welfare interest of Chibi.
Unfortunately, Chibi’s health issues cannot be fixed by dental procedures, even if we perform them every 2-3 weeks as he currently needs. Chibi's tooth roots are through the bone which is causing him a considerable amount of discomfort and causing him to chew abnormally. This is why the crowns create spurs so quickly. As we are unable to fix the cause of the underlying problem, it is our professional opinion that putting him through repeated procedures so frequently is unethical as they are just prolonging his life but not improving its quality.
In addition to his dental issues, Chibi is also suffering from a necrotic toe and cachexia. He is severely underweight and the high risk of infection posed by the toe increases the risk of any sedation, let alone multiple sedations within a month. This makes any further procedures a welfare concern and unviable.

I have to let him go because I see the signs that he is in pain and his front teeth are so long jaggered. His back ones must be causing him so much pain too.
I enclosed some photos of our gorgeous boy.
I was doing exercises yesterday and he scampered over to me and climbed up. The love and joy he's given us is beyond want I can write and I'm finding it incredibly painful 💔
 

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Mrs Tiggy Winkle said:
I have been told that facing the side, especially if piggie can't see out of the side, can be like nose-in-the-corner, so wanting to go.

Being subdued can be age-related rather than actually piggie wanting to go, but I can't say for someone else's piggie. I had very old oldies who lay and slept most of the day, just getting up to toddle about looking for something to eat, taking bits of cuc and communicating a bit with me and cagemates. But if it's a different kind of subdued, it could be a wanting-to-go / give-up kind of thing. I think you would be a better judge of that.

How is he with his cagemate? Still interested in each other? Communicating? Or more ignoring?


I would find that frustrating if not maddening too.

Sending support :hug:

P.S. Do you have a photo of Chibi? We love seeing guinea pigtures on here
Click to expand...

Winkie said:
Hi, sorry to hear about your problem .As you live in Salisbury Anton Vets in Andover may be nearer than Swindon and they have exotics vets.A lady called Rebekka is excellent and very experienced in dealing with Guinea pig teeth issues .Maybe worth a try..🤔.
Click to expand...
Thank you, it is Anton Vets that I'm with. They have been very good but I wanted him to have more dentals, I wanted to keep him but realise now that I have to let him go.
 
Chibi is very sweet - the way he's sitting on you while you're exercising. Lovely fur colour too.

I'm so sorry that his time has come to be helped over rainbow bridge. The vet's letter makes sense though it is very sad. Much as I always wanted to save my own guineas it simply wasn't always possible, same for Chibi :(:(

Sending you lots of good wishes as you go through these last hours or days with Chibi. Hugs.
 
FizzyLizzie said:
Thank you, it is Anton Vets that I'm with. They have been very good but I wanted him to have more dentals, I wanted to keep him but realise now that I have to let him go.
Click to expand...
Oh bless you I'm so very sorry you're going through this.Do you think you could get an appointment at the cat and rabbit clinic? I know it's far from you but they really are the best vets in this country for dentals and other things and will tell you if they think they can't help.Ive had vets in the past who have told me to put a guinea pig to sleep etc but the cat and rabbit have been able to help.If you've already made your choice then I apologise for bringing them up x
 
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