Water Aspiration Or Upset Belly- Opinions Appreciated

[adominion24]

Hello,

I was wondering if I could get opinions from a few experienced Piggie parents. I am new to this forum and I am a new Piggie parent. My husband and I got our 2 adorable little boys about 3 months ago. We estimate them to be about 6 months old but don't know for certain. I came home from work yesterday evening and realized that the smaller of the 2 was acting a bit strange. He was hiding in a corner of his house. This would typically be normal but something just didn't seem right. Also, he wasn't as interested in food as normal and seemed a bit lethargic. So I got him out and looked at him. He seemed to be breathing hard. He didn't seem to be breathing faster really, just harder. So we got out the scale and he had lost almost an ounce since we'd last weighed him 4 days prior. So we immediately took him into the animal ER. Now here's a bit of information I had forgotten to list earlier. I had given them both their first bath just the night before. Meeko (the sick piggie) was NOT happy about it. He cried the whole time I was washing him. The vet did her examination and told us that he could have aspirated some of the bath water or that he could have an upset tummy. She gave him an injection of fluids and sent me with Baytril to give him twice daily for 7 seven days and also some Oxbow Critical Care to syringe feed him. (He doesn't like syringe feeding either, at all.) We just got him out again to give him his medicine and feed him. We weighed him and he's lost almost 2 more ounces since last night. He does eat some on his own but not a lot. His breathing seems to be about the same but no worse. I, apparently, am bad at syringe feeding. I found some instructions on this forum that I'm going to try in a couple of hours. Fingers crossed for a good result. He has been out and about a bit more today than last night. I'm hopeful that he will make a full recovery and I'd like to help that along any way that I can. I am hoping that maybe some of you out there can tell me if there is something else that I should be doing? Or not doing? Just basically your thoughts on the situation. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you so much!

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome!

Please hand feed, slowly and carefully. The less you can get into him in one go, the more often you need to feed; please also offer plenty of water. Baytril is an additional appetite dampener.
The symptoms you are reporting are also typical for a respiratory infection or an untypical pneumonia, which can develop very quickly, so it is good that he has got an antibiotic and that you have had him seen promptly.

Could you please give us his weight (if you can, please in grams rather than ounces, as we have got members from all over the world) and the baytril dose? if things don't get better, you may want to ask your vet for a diuretic to help drain the fluid. The deep (diaphragmic) breathing is typical for a fluid build up in either the lungs or the chest cavity.

Please do not bathe your guinea pigs just for the sake of bathing and unless there is a medical reason for it; it really freaks out some poor souls! If there rear end is very soiled, give them a little shallow quick bum bath with hand warm water to remove the worst of it. Keep the hairs around the genitals and back legs cut short to avoid the worst of the matting and soiling. It the hair is very greasy and there is a build up of crusts and gunk at the back about an inch above the genitals, look up our tips for cleaning grease glands.

 

[adominion24]

Thank you so much for your reply!
I'm really trying to feed him as much as I can get in him but it seems like he takes less the more I do it. Even with the water. He's little but so strong. I'm scared that I'll hurt him. He gets so upset when I do it as well. I just try to go slow and give him time to rest and calm down. When he gets stressed out his breathing becomes harder and that concerns me. But I will not give up.
Last night he weighed 1 lb 9 oz which should be 708 grams (if I did the conversion correctly). I am including a picture of the Baytril prescription. It is 100mg/ml and 0.08 ml every 12 hours. He did seem a bit better this morning. He was even wheeking for his veggies and did a little bit of popcorning! That made me happy. While he was still breathing harder than normal, I think it may have been better. (I am at work now but my husband is home caring for him.)
I have learned my lesson. I will not be bathing them again unless absolutely necessary. It was an awful experience. I feel so bad for him. The good news is that they aren't long haired piggies so hopefully it will be easier to keep the hair from matting.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you so much for your reply!
I'm really trying to feed him as much as I can get in him but it seems like he takes less the more I do it. Even with the water. He's little but so strong. I'm scared that I'll hurt him. He gets so upset when I do it as well. I just try to go slow and give him time to rest and calm down. When he gets stressed out his breathing becomes harder and that concerns me. But I will not give up.
Last night he weighed 1 lb 9 oz which should be 708 grams (if I did the conversion correctly). I am including a picture of the Baytril prescription. It is 100mg/ml and 0.08 ml every 12 hours. He did seem a bit better this morning. He was even wheeking for his veggies and did a little bit of popcorning! That made me happy. While he was still breathing harder than normal, I think it may have been better. (I am at work now but my husband is home caring for him.)
I have learned my lesson. I will not be bathing them again unless absolutely necessary. It was an awful experience. I feel so bad for him. The good news is that they aren't long haired piggies so hopefully it will be easier to keep the hair from matting.

View attachment 31111

Fingers firmly crossed. He sounds still perky and has got extra energy, which is a very good sign, so see the syringe feed only as topping up to help his small body retain its strength to fight. the baytril dosage is very low, so it shouldn't cause any extra digestive issues.

@Pebble

 

[Pebble]

Your baytril strength is 100mg/ml which is 4x the strength of the baytril normally prescribed in the UK (which is 25mg/ml).

So 0.08ml contains 8mg of baytril which for his weight of 700g equates to a dose of approx 11.5mg/kg.

The Small Animal Formulary has baytril recommended dose ranges of 5-10mg/kg for rats twice daily and 10-30mg/kg for rabbits once daily. It doesn;t mention guinea pigs.Although some vets may use the rat doses, most cavy savvy vets opt for the higher rabbit doses as guinea pigs have a fast metabolism and need higher doses of drug to maintin effective levels in their system (Otherwise too low a dose may not work and the bugs will actually develop resistance). More often than not, guinea pigs are dosed at 10mg/kg twice daily.

Therefore your 0.08ml (11.5mg/kg) twice daily is about right effective dose for your little lad. I suspect he probably weighed more at his vets visit when the calculation was done (maybe even up to 800g?) so the fact he is now weighing in at 700g would be concerning me and he will need topping up with syringe food.
x

 

[adominion24]

I thought that seemed like a pretty significant weight loss myself. I shall persevere. I'm determined to get him well. He weighed about 765 grams at his vet visit. But I know that at his age he should be steadily gaining. Definitely not losing! I'm so worried about him. I do think that I need to be getting more food in him. His poo was smaller than normal this morning. But he has been urinating. We also try to drown his lettuce in water to try and get liquids in him that way too. I really appreciate your comments. It means a lot :-)

 

[Wiebke]

I thought that seemed like a pretty significant weight loss myself. I shall persevere. I'm determined to get him well. He weighed about 765 grams at his vet visit. But I know that at his age he should be steadily gaining. Definitely not losing! I'm so worried about him. I do think that I need to be getting more food in him. His poo was smaller than normal this morning. But he has been urinating. We also try to drown his lettuce in water to try and get liquids in him that way too. I really appreciate your comments. It means a lot :-)

The smaller poos reflect yesterday's intake. Just keep it up, little by little.

 

[biscandmatt]

all the best for your little one. i can't offer any advice other than what has already been mentioned, but wanted to send him hugs x

 

[adominion24]

Awww... Thanks

 

[adominion24]

Hello Everyone,

You have all been so helpful in your replies. I would like to give you an update on little Meeko. He is bouncing back well. We have kind of turned a corner with the syringe feeding. He's more cooperative for me. I found a different position which I think he feels more secure in. I've been able to get 25 mL in him in 18 hours which is much better than I was able to do before last night. He also gained 17 grams within that 18 hour time frame! (He had lost a total of about 80 grams in the first 2 days.) He still doesn't have much of an appetite but in all fairness I've been feeding him about every 3 hours. We are going to keep working at it and hope that his appetite returns soon. And he has been drinking out of his water bottle by himself. His breathing has improved greatly as well. It's almost back to normal. He does still hide quite a bit. I'm sure he still doesn't feel really good so I'm not overly concerned about that. He does come out just not as much or for as long.I appreciate all of your advice.

 

[biscandmatt]

Hello Everyone,

You have all been so helpful in your replies. I would like to give you an update on little Meeko. He is bouncing back well. We have kind of turned a corner with the syringe feeding. He's more cooperative for me. I found a different position which I think he feels more secure in. I've been able to get 25 mL in him in 18 hours which is much better than I was able to do before last night. He also gained 17 grams within that 18 hour time frame! (He had lost a total of about 80 grams in the first 2 days.) He still doesn't have much of an appetite but in all fairness I've been feeding him about every 3 hours. We are going to keep working at it and hope that his appetite returns soon. And he has been drinking out of his water bottle by himself. His breathing has improved greatly as well. It's almost back to normal. He does still hide quite a bit. I'm sure he still doesn't feel really good so I'm not overly concerned about that. He does come out just not as much or for as long.I appreciate all of your advice.

lovely to hear that he is improving x

 

[Wiebke]

Great that he is improving. His appetite will hopefully return in the measure that he feels better in himself. Start offering him normal food (I find that fresh herbs and some freshly ripped grass usually go down best) and then top him up with syringe feed. You can also leave him with some pellets that you have soaked with a bit of boiled and then cooled to about warm water; I find that my frail and recovering piggies like this better than normal pellets because it is easier to eat.

Once piggies have realised that syringe feed is making them better, they are more likely to cooperate in the future. The first time is usually the most difficult.

 

[adominion24]

He will nibble on some veggies and even pellets and hay. I will try the soft pellets because it does almost seem like he's hungry but just doesn't want to deal with it. He did eat on his grass tunnel this morning and he's been all over his chew toys too.