We Have Just The Thing For You!

[Wiebke]

Too good to not share!

Piggles Rescue in Toronto, Canada have received this email: "Do you have any cheap guinea pigs?"
The rescue's answer: "We have just the thing for you!"


PS: Canada is one of the most expensive countries in the world when it comes to pet keeping, measured by average income against living cost and even more so, vet fees.

 

[carrie anne]

Lol, what the hell? Stupid email good reply though

 

[Wiebke]

Lol, what the hell? Stupid email good reply though

You would be amazed at what kind of enquiries rescues get on a daily basis!

 

[rome_italy]

maybe I am wrong, but could it be possible that the meaning of the question was "a piggie with an adoption fee cheaper than the one of his younger fellows"?. I read that the adoption fee of that rescue is 30$, I don't know if they have to pay an extra for a neutered boar. Anyway 30$ might be a high fee for certain piggies and someone may prefer to go to the shop where a baby pig costs less... (a pig into a shop will be killed after 2-3 months if nobody saves him; many shops return the piggies to the breeder who will sell them as a food for snakes; and a piggie from a shop can also end up in the wrong hands, such as the hands of those stupid children... )
As I see things in a practical way, long ago I was talking with the lady who runs the rescue where I adopted my sows. We are good friends now although we look at the things with different eyes. She has no fee, only free donations. But she has a group of quite old piggies who don't have any requests of adoption. As they are volunteers and always in need of money, I told her: "Rufus and Brindisi are 4 now, nobody want them; they will soon fall ill and you will have to pay all the vet bills; nobody wants them because the possibility of starting to pay the vet with them is high; for you it would be better to promote the two boars in a special adoption, that is giving a little amount (maybe 50€) to the family who will adopt them, just as a gift or a little deposit for the future cost of the piggies; moreover you would have room for other two younger piggies who will not be abandoned at the bins". She said no. Now, after one year Brindisi has a limphoma and Rufus has another chronic trouble. Vet bills are becoming huge and she is in difficulties.
If in Canada the situation is similar to ours, I understand the request... and an old piggie should have a different fee and even a support.
Sometimes rescues push adoptants to the shop and the breeder with their childish replies (now I am thinking of the silly and rude replies I often read on fb pages of our italian rescues... ). Rescues often think about the adoption as a sort of religious mission, but an adoption should be made with the head...
(it is only my personal opinion

 

[Misty]

Right @rome_italy i know what you mean but really.

such as the hands of those stupid children... )

I am a young teen but in my opinion its the parents who are stupid for giving the child the pet in the first place as It is their responsiblity to look after the animal not the childs and in my own experince the child can do nothing much about the pets welfare as its all in the hands of the adult.

 

[Flutterby]

I probably wouldn't give them a teddy pig either lol!

 

[Wiebke]

maybe I am wrong, but could it be possible that the meaning of the question was "a piggie with an adoption fee cheaper than the one of his younger fellows"?. I read that the adoption fee of that rescue is 30$, I don't know if they have to pay an extra for a neutered boar. Anyway 30$ might be a high fee for certain piggies and someone may prefer to go to the shop where a baby pig costs less... (a pig into a shop will be killed after 2-3 months if nobody [you]saves[/you] him; many shops return the piggies to the breeder who will sell them as a food for snakes; and a piggie from a shop can also end up in the wrong hands, such as the hands of those stupid children... )
As I see things in a practical way, long ago I was talking with the lady who runs the rescue where I adopted my sows. We are good friends now although we look at the things with different eyes. She has no fee, only free donations. But she has a group of quite old piggies who don't have any requests of adoption. As they are volunteers and always in need of money, I told her: "Rufus and Brindisi are 4 now, nobody want them; they will soon fall ill and you will have to pay all the vet bills; nobody wants them because the possibility of starting to pay the vet with them is high; for you it would be better to promote the two boars in a special adoption, that is giving a little amount (maybe 50€) to the family who will adopt them, just as a gift or a little deposit for the future cost of the piggies; moreover you would have room for other two younger piggies who will not be abandoned at the bins". She said no. Now, after one year Brindisi has a limphoma and Rufus has another chronic trouble. Vet bills are becoming huge and she is in difficulties.
If in Canada the situation is similar to ours, I understand the request... and an old piggie should have a different fee and even a support.
Sometimes rescues push adoptants to the shop and the breeder with their childish replies (now I am thinking of the silly and rude replies I often read on fb pages of our italian rescues... ). Rescues often think about the adoption as a sort of religious mission, but an adoption should be made with the head...
(it is only my personal opinion

Sorry, @rome_italy ! This enquiry is wrong on so many levels.

If you think rescues make unreasonable demands and need to act with their 'head' instead of their 'heart', then it is you that still has to come a long way to appreciate just how much work and money (which you never make back from an adoption fee) goes into bringing a guinea pig back to health, into vet fees, feeding and bedding etc. Even a neutering operation will cost a rescue more than it asks back in adoption fees. Please keep that very firmly in mind!

What rescues ask for in terms of adoption fees is a small part of what they invest into a rescued animal. What they ask for in terms of a home is compatible with minimal welfare standards and a commitment to look adequately after their adopted pets during their lifetime. They do not ask for the moon and stars, you know!

However, what many small backyard rescue outfits like your ladies haven't done is put their operation on a long term steady financial/fundraising basis. She clearly doesn't have any business sense.

Guinea pigs in Canadian pets shops are not much cheaper, and they do NOT come with quarantine, health care, proper sexing and no pregnancy guarantee etc.

Please ask yourself first and foremost - would you want to entrust a guinea that you have you saved, brought back to good health under great effort and cost to somebody who a) only wants one guinea pig, b) wants it as cheaply as possible and c) is therefore not willing or able to care for any pet in an adequate way nor will they ever have commitment to do so for any length of time?

The guinea pig is always the cheapest part of keeping a pet responsibly. If you are not willing to accept and commit to at least minimal welfare standards and learn about them and the needs of the pet you want to buy, then you are simply not somebody any rescue would want to adopt to because if you go elsewhere to get a cheap single piggy to keep as cheaply as possible, your guinea pig is the kind of guinea pig that ends up badly neglected, malnourished and ill a few weeks or months later in your rescue to be brought back to health, socialist and care for under great cost and time investment...

Old guinea pigs so often end up in rescue when their family cannot be bothered to look after them anymore. I can understand why your rescue lady is not willing to adopt them out with a discount - it means they are worthless. And that is the exact opposite of the message she wants to give!
In a rescue, every life counts and is worth caring for, whether it is an elderly guinea pig, a young one with genetic defects or a chronic illness or whether a guinea pig is so badly traumatised that it will never be fit for adoption.
All rescues have permanent residents. Most rescues have sponsoring schemes for those guinea pigs (I am currentl sponsoring a couple of guinea pigs as a Christmas present to friends and have an 8 or 9 year old Christmas gift sponsorship guinea pig myself). Some rescues are also working by looking for 'godparents' for rescued guinea pigs that pay for or towards an operation.

Sadly, many prive small rescues have started out the wrong way without putting on a financially solid basis - but any fundraising should not happen on the back of getting rid of any rescued animals.

Rest assured the Piggles Rescue is the biggest and best run rescue in the whole of Canada, and that they run a successful outfit.

Animal welfare is not and can never be a matter of the 'head' and compromise!

PS: You are most likely not in the least aware just how much abuse and silly demands rescues face on a daily basis.
This example here is a very harmless one compared to what they normally get. You can also be sure that the rescue will have told the person in more detail what looking after a pet responsibly entails in financial and long term care commitments.

 

[VickiA]

I’ve seen a number of ridiculous and at times quite frankly rude emails sent to rescues in this country. Very often the emails come with a list of demands and conditions and an implied (if not explicit) belief that the rescue is somehow “lucky” that the emailer is considering adopting one of their piggies. What they don’t realise is that rescues have invested so much time, money and their love into the rehabilitation of the piggies they put up for adoption that they are never going to let them go to a home that is less than ideal. And attitude of the proposed adopter features in that assessment.
I love the idea of responding with a picture of a toy piggy. Well done that rescue.

 

[rome_italy]

maybe I am wrong, but could it be possible that the meaning of the question was "a piggie with an adoption fee cheaper than the one of his younger fellows"?. I read that the adoption fee of that rescue is 30$, I don't know if they have to pay an extra for a neutered boar. Anyway 30$ might be a high fee for certain piggies and someone may prefer to go to the shop where a baby pig costs less... (a pig into a shop will be killed after 2-3 months if nobody [you]saves[/you] him; many shops return the piggies to the breeder who will sell them as a food for snakes; and a piggie from a shop can also end up in the wrong hands, such as the hands of those stupid children... )
As I see things in a practical way, long ago I was talking with the lady who runs the rescue where I adopted my sows. We are good friends now although we look at the things with different eyes. She has no fee, only free donations. But she has a group of quite old piggies who don't have any requests of adoption. As they are volunteers and always in need of money, I told her: "Rufus and Brindisi are 4 now, nobody want them; they will soon fall ill and you will have to pay all the vet bills; nobody wants them because the possibility of starting to pay the vet with them is high; for you it would be better to promote the two boars in a special adoption, that is giving a little amount (maybe 50€) to the family who will adopt them, just as a gift or a little deposit for the future cost of the piggies; moreover you would have room for other two younger piggies who will not be abandoned at the bins". She said no. Now, after one year Brindisi has a limphoma and Rufus has another chronic trouble. Vet bills are becoming huge and she is in difficulties.
If in Canada the situation is similar to ours, I understand the request... and an old piggie should have a different fee and even a support.
Sometimes rescues push adoptants to the shop and the breeder with their childish replies (now I am thinking of the silly and rude replies I often read on fb pages of our italian rescues... ). Rescues often think about the adoption as a sort of religious mission, but an adoption should be made with the head...
(it is only my personal opinion

Right @rome_italy i know what you mean but really.

I am a young teen but in my opinion its the parents who are stupid for giving the child the pet in the first place as It is their responsiblity to look after the animal not the childs and in my own experince the child can do nothing much about the pets welfare as its all in the hands of the adult.

I totally agree with you and we have a saying, that is "the idiot mother is always pregnant". Children are children, their amazing brain works differently and they should never be asked of being "little adults" giving them the responsability of a life which they cannot deal with. The child has also the right of losing the interest for the pet or the toy, why not? Unfortunately such children with their idiot parents go to the pet shop. And that piggie will soon reach the rescue (or the grave).
Unfortunately it is not only a problem of the vet and the bills; I see sometimes children allowed to run after a bunny, to pull cats' tails, etc.
Anyway, here we have a simple real problem: NOBODY will ever adopt a piggie older than 2-3. Hence, what to do? praying the Lord will change the fact? A little "discount" might work and this is what a cat sanctuary in my district is doing with their old cats. I don't see anything wrong...

 

[rome_italy]

Sorry, @rome_italy ! This enquiry is wrong on so many levels.

If you think rescues make unreasonable demands and need to act with their 'head' instead of their 'heart', then it is you that still has to come a long way to appreciate just how much work and money (which you never make back from an adoption fee) goes into bringing a guinea pig back to health, into vet fees, feeding and bedding etc. Even a neutering operation will cost a rescue more than it asks back in adoption fees. Please keep that very firmly in mind!

What rescues ask for in terms of adoption fees is a small part of what they invest into a rescued animal. What they ask for in terms of a home is compatible with minimal welfare standards and a commitment to look adequately after their adopted pets during their lifetime. They do not ask for the moon and stars, you know!

However, what many small backyard rescue outfits like your ladies haven't done is put their operation on a long term steady financial/fundraising basis. She clearly doesn't have any business sense.

Guinea pigs in Canadian pets shops are not much cheaper, and they do NOT come with quarantine, health care, proper sexing and no pregnancy guarantee etc.

Please ask yourself first and foremost - would you want to entrust a guinea that you have you saved, brought back to good health under great effort and cost to somebody who a) only wants one guinea pig, b) wants it as cheaply as possible and c) is therefore not willing or able to care for any pet in an adequate way nor will they ever have commitment to do so for any length of time?

The guinea pig is always the cheapest part of keeping a pet responsibly. If you are not willing to accept and commit to at least minimal welfare standards and learn about them and the needs of the pet you want to buy, then you are simply not somebody any rescue would want to adopt to because if you go elsewhere to get a cheap single piggy to keep as cheaply as possible, your guinea pig is the kind of guinea pig that ends up badly neglected, malnourished and ill a few weeks or months later in your rescue to be brought back to health, socialist and care for under great cost and time investment...

Old guinea pigs so often end up in rescue when their family cannot be bothered to look after them anymore. I can understand why your rescue lady is not willing to adopt them out with a discount - it means they are worthless. And that is the exact opposite of the message she wants to give!
In a rescue, every life counts and is worth caring for, whether it is an elderly guinea pig, a young one with genetic defects or a chronic illness or whether a guinea pig is so badly traumatised that it will never be fit for adoption.
All rescues have permanent residents. Most rescues have sponsoring schemes for those guinea pigs (I am currentl sponsoring a couple of guinea pigs as a Christmas present to friends and have an 8 or 9 year old Christmas gift sponsorship guinea pig myself). Some rescues are also working by looking for 'godparents' for rescued guinea pigs that pay for or towards an operation.

Sadly, many prive small rescues have started out the wrong way without putting on a financially solid basis - but any fundraising should not happen on the back of getting rid of any rescued animals.

Rest assured the Piggles Rescue is the biggest and best run rescue in the whole of Canada, and that they run a successful outfit.

Animal welfare is not and can never be a matter of the 'head' and compromise!

PS: You are most likely not in the least aware just how much abuse and silly demands rescues face on a daily basis.
This example here is a very harmless one compared to what they normally get. You can also be sure that the rescue will have told the person in more detail what looking after a pet responsibly entails in financial and long term care commitments.

Unfortunately in Italy rescues have different troubles because here people are not prone in donations and fundraising. The truth is that rescues have difficulties, have no headquarters, volunteers have the piggies and the bunnies as guests at home, and so on. In such rescues, run by a group of volunteers, a resident is a big trouble and they cannot have many piggies because volunteers have no room at home. In this situation, far from yours of course, we need to relocate piggies, otherwise another piggie will be thrown to the bins or to the park. Same destiny for the bunnies (recently a park in Forlì had to KILL 2000 bunnies, born from abandoned bunnies... a sad and shameful story).
When I decided to adopt Osvaldo, the fee was 80€ because he had been neutered. Osvaldo was living in Turin, the journey to Turin from Rome was too expensive and long. I asked for a discount or a help, they said no and I said goodbye and thanks.
Then they called me again and we came to an agreement: a volunteer travelled by car from Turin to Milan, a friend of hers had Osvaldo as a guest at home in Milan because I could not go there that week, etc.
Osvaldo would have become a resident piggie, because he is TWO y.o. and here nobody adopts such an "old" piggie. This is our reality and this is what an italian rescue should think about before starting an activity.
Now you can tell me that I should have gone to Turin by plane or by car, but sorry that is not for me.
And no donations from now on because I have three piggies, and three future bills with our expensive exotic vets and I need to save money. I can sew some cuddle cups for my friend's fundraising markets and her rescue, but nothing more and I am very sorry if she is dealing now with expensive bills for a big herd of old ill piggies...

About the silly requests of the adoptants: what's about the silly contracts we are asked to sign here? you don't even imagine the absurd requests of certain rescues, such as "the piggie remains our property, if he will die we can ask you for a post mortem, you cannot bury him before our permit... if your piggie will die during the first year you will be fined 300€..." etc. (3 pages of nonsenses).

And I repeat; I act with my HEAD only. I contacted the rescue for a certain baby piggie, then I saw Osvaldo, I realised Osvaldo here can have a good life, I thought and thought and re-thought, I had a long talk with the vet and then I decided.

 

[Wiebke]

Unfortunately in Italy rescues have different troubles because here people are not prone in donations and fundraising. The truth is that rescues have difficulties, have no headquarters, volunteers have the piggies and the bunnies as guests at home, and so on. In such rescues, run by a group of volunteers, a resident is a big trouble and they cannot have many piggies because volunteers have no room at home. In this situation, far from yours of course, we need to relocate piggies, otherwise another piggie will be thrown to the bins or to the park. Same destiny for the bunnies (recently a park in Forlì had to KILL 2000 bunnies, born from abandoned bunnies... a sad and shameful story).
When I decided to adopt Osvaldo, the fee was 80€ because he had been neutered. Osvaldo was living in Turin, the journey to Turin from Rome was too expensive and long. I asked for a discount or a help, they said no and I said goodbye and thanks.
Then they called me again and we came to an agreement: a volunteer travelled by car from Turin to Milan, a friend of hers had Osvaldo as a guest at home in Milan because I could not go there that week, etc.
Osvaldo would have become a resident piggie, because he is TWO y.o. and here nobody adopts such an "old" piggie. This is our reality and this is what an italian rescue should think about before starting an activity.
Now you can tell me that I should have gone to Turin by plane or by car, but sorry that is not for me.
And no donations from now on because I have three piggies, and three future bills with our expensive exotic vets and I need to save money. I can sew some cuddle cups for my friend's fundraising markets and her rescue, but nothing more and I am very sorry if she is dealing now with expensive bills for a big herd of old ill piggies...

About the silly requests of the adoptants: what's about the silly contracts we are asked to sign here? you don't even imagine the absurd requests of certain rescues, such as "the piggie remains our property, if he will die we can ask you for a post mortem, you cannot bury him before our permit... if your piggie will die during the first year you will be fined 300€..." etc. (3 pages of nonsenses).

And I repeat; I act with my HEAD only. I contacted the rescue for a certain baby piggie, then I saw Osvaldo, I realised Osvaldo here can have a good life, I thought and thought and re-thought, I had a long talk with the vet and then I decided.

Please do not snipe at me; I am not expecting and have never expected anybody to drive halfway around a country in order to pick up a rescue piggy! If you'd read my recent posts, you would know that!
Just because I am willing to travel myself and to meet more rescue people in person and have a look behind the scenes of various rescues doesn't mean that I am one of those that measures everybody by the same unreasonably high standard. For me it is as much about the special piggies I am making an extra effort for as it is about building up connections and knowledge that I can use on this forum to the benefit of our members and their guinea pigs. Any special recommendations of mine are always to rescues within a reasonable reach. If they are further afield, I always make that clear.

I know that these types you seem to mistake me for abound on social media and have turned a fair number of guinea pig forums into no go zones except for a very small clique of righteous self-enforcing hypocrites. We prefer to keep them outside this forum. That is one of the reasons why we are still here and still going strongly.

By the way, I have travelled widely in Italy; I have been to both Rome and Turin and know very well how far away from each other they are!

Many rescues rely on private fosterers; it has the advantage that guinea pigs are in a home-like setting and can be socialised much better. However, what you seem to lack in Italy is a system of organised welfare enforcement, centres run with official support and a rescue organisation or network that can cope with larger rescues.
In many countries rescues from an wider area or even a whole country have learned to cooperate to cope with a large rescue intake because numbers are rising steadily.
We distinguish between euthanising shelters (US) or pounds (UK) and strictly non-kill rescues. The ones we recommend are only carefully checked good standard non-kill rescues we know any members will be in safe hands. None of our recommended rescues makes unreasonable demands although these can differ from rescue to rescue depending on bad experiences.

It is a pity that the public perception of supporting animal rescue is not any stronger yet in Italy but I am aware just what a long journey it is in view general attitudes to animal welfare in previous decades. I have often been laughed right into my face when I told Italian friends that I have rescue guinea pigs and that they are cherished pets.

The problem is that you can never just use your own experiences and conditions in your country to comment on what happens in another country. If there is one thing I have learned is that you can never compare because conditions are just too different. You have to learn first what is going on in another place before you can judge. You can also never judge one rescue from your experience with another in the same country.

It sounds like the rescue you adopted your Osvaldo from expected you to pay for the full operation cost, which most rescues in English speaking countries will not do. $30 Canadian dollars are 20 euros; that is certainly a very reasonable adoption fee for a guinea pig even in your eyes?

Before you fume about the 'silly' stipulations in any adoption form you sign please keep in mind that every single one of them has been brought about by the suffering and the death of an adopted guinea pig. We can rant at inconvenient requests, but they have never been put in lightly; they have come about through a very bad and upsetting experience, generally at the cost of innocent lives. As long as you take good care of your adopted guinea pigs, you will never have any problems.

 

[rome_italy]

Please do not snipe at me; I am not expecting and have never expected anybody to drive halfway around a country in order to pick up a rescue piggy! If you'd read my recent posts, you would know that!
Just because I am willing to travel myself and to meet more rescue people in person and have a look behind the scenes of various rescues doesn't mean that I am one of those that measures everybody by the same unreasonably high standard. For me it is as much about the special piggies I am making an extra effort for as it is about building up connections and knowledge that I can use on this forum to the benefit of our members and their guinea pigs. Any special recommendations of mine are always to rescues within a reasonable reach. If they are further afield, I always make that clear.

I know that these types you seem to mistake me for abound on social media and have turned a fair number of guinea pig forums into no go zones except for a very small clique of righteous self-enforcing hypocrites. We prefer to keep them outside this forum. That is one of the reasons why we are still here and still going strongly.

By the way, I have travelled widely in Italy; I have been to both Rome and Turin and know very well how far away from each other they are!

Many rescues rely on private fosterers; it has the advantage that guinea pigs are in a home-like setting and can be socialised much better. However, what you seem to lack in Italy is a system of organised welfare enforcement, centres run with official support and a rescue organisation or network that can cope with larger rescues.
In many countries rescues from an wider area or even a whole country have learned to cooperate to cope with a large rescue intake because numbers are rising steadily.
We distinguish between euthanising shelters (US) or pounds (UK) and strictly non-kill rescues. The ones we recommend are only carefully checked good standard non-kill rescues we know any members will be in safe hands. None of our recommended rescues makes unreasonable demands although these can differ from rescue to rescue depending on bad experiences.

It is a pity that the public perception of supporting animal rescue is not any stronger yet in Italy but I am aware just what a long journey it is in view general attitudes to animal welfare in previous decades. I have often been laughed right into my face when I told Italian friends that I have rescue guinea pigs and that they are cherished pets.

The problem is that you can never just use your own experiences and conditions in your country to comment on what happens in another country. If there is one thing I have learned is that you can never compare because conditions are just too different. You have to learn first what is going on in another place before you can judge. You can also never judge one rescue from your experience with another in the same country.

It sounds like the rescue you adopted your Osvaldo from expected you to pay for the full operation cost, which most rescues in English speaking countries will not do. $30 Canadian dollars are 20 euros; that is certainly a very reasonable adoption fee for a guinea pig even in your eyes?

Before you fume about the 'silly' stipulations in any adoption form you sign please keep in mind that every single one of them has been brought about by the suffering and the death of an adopted guinea pig. We can rant at inconvenient requests, but they have never been put in lightly; they have come about through a very bad and upsetting experience, generally at the cost of innocent lives. As long as you take good care of your adopted guinea pigs, you will never have any problems.

of course I agree with you, but as I have told you before I look at things in a "practical" way and, about the strange request of a cheaper piggie in Canada, I was only asking myself if the discount was asked for other reasons... Nowadays people send short messages on fb in a hurry using three words badly written.
For replying to your lines: here also castrations are expensive, I am not sure of the exact cost, but I think it is never less than 150€. 80€ covered only a part of Osvaldo's bill and I would have paid more.
I am not well informed about the italian rescues, but what I know for sure is that there is an official and quite big group (AAE cavie), it is well visible online, they have volunteers in different cities, but they also live with private donations and help other rescues only sharing some little things; nothing special. Then there are 2-3 little rescues, run by honest volunteer people.
I see no cooperation among the rescues: for example, on AAE's fb page there was a notice about a certain piggie in Rome; under that notice there were two messages of two very interested guys both from the northern cities (Cremona and a town near Bologna); as the piggie was one and the requests were two I told my friend in Bologna about that guy... she has a lot of piggies to rehome and that guy was nearer Bologna than Rome! Is it dishonest to contact that guy saying "if you will not manage to adopt that piggie, I have some piggie, too"? and why did not AAE contact my friend? Consider that the guy said he could not travel...
Nobody of them are "pro-kill" and they are actually fervent and passionate animalists who are concentrated in all their big social battles and often "forget" the piggies (not updating webpages for example...).
But as you say, a sense of business is necessary and here such animalists don't often use the brain and make a lot of mistakes picturing a world which actually does not exist (here!). If you give me too many troubles, then I will go to a shop... A trouble is not the visit at home or the request of future pictures, but the long list of "threats" (they sound like threats).
Ironically here, if you want to save a piggie, you should go to the shop... and even in a hurry, because the shop sells only baby piggies! Then they will become food for snakes.The piggies living in foster homes (rescue) are well looked after, they will get the best cares from the best vets and will have a great life even when nobody will adopt them.

Anyway, although there are good possibilities that the canadian guy asking for the discount was an idiot, his request might have some explanation... I also asked for a little discount as I had to pay for the train (anyway the journey to Milan was a very good compromise; the line is high speed and maybe also Osvaldo found it exciting )

 

[Misty]

I think the best thing about the photo is that the teddy costs about £25 on Amazon.

 

[TheLottiediarys]

I totally agree with you and we have a saying, that is "the idiot mother is always pregnant". Children are children, their amazing brain works differently and they should never be asked of being "little adults" giving them the responsability of a life which they cannot deal with. The child has also the right of losing the interest for the pet or the toy, why not? Unfortunately such children with their idiot parents go to the pet shop. And that piggie will soon reach the rescue (or the grave).
Unfortunately it is not only a problem of the vet and the bills; I see sometimes children allowed to run after a bunny, to pull cats' tails, etc.
.

Maybe I was just a different child, but from the day i got my Guinea Pigs and Hamsters I made sure to feed them daily, change their water, they had floor time every day, I cleaned them out regularly.
And I took my Pets very seriously from a young age,
Now I had a friend as a child whose Rabbit got fly strike because she didn't clean it out for months and months it turned out, I remember being horrified, and her mum didn't care either, watched it all happen without interfering.

Now my question is why do some children like me and I guess others aswell care so well for our animals and others like my friend and ones we all know about just get bored?

How as a parent do you know you child really wants a pet? ? And is ready for that responsibility?

I think a lot about how I'm going to introduce my children to small animals so they really approciate that they're actual living creatures not play things.

 

[Betsy]

I always wanted pets as a child but my parents said no worrying that it would be a 5 minute wonder but I knew I could and would look after them. Now as an adult I have had the pets I always wanted as a child. I have had 8 hamsters over the years 4 dwarf and 4 syrian and I have 2 rainbow piggies and 5 piggies now. I am teaching my son how to look after them properly. He even came home from school early last week missing his ukulele lesson (which he loves) just so that he could clean out the piggies when the weather was nice because I couldn't do it as my back was still bad AND I didn't ask him to. Which just shows I must be doing something right. He is a very responsible young man. Not every child should be labelled as irresponsible. My son knows they are living creatures with thoughts and feelings and he loves all 5 of them dearly.

 

[TheLottiediarys]

I always wanted pets as a child but my parents said no worrying that it would be a 5 minute wonder but I knew I could and would look after them. Now as an adult I have had the pets I always wanted as a child. I have had 8 hamsters over the years 4 dwarf and 4 syrian and I have 2 rainbow piggies and 5 piggies now. I am teaching my son how to look after them properly. He even came home from school early last week missing his ukulele lesson (which he loves) just so that he could clean out the piggies when the weather was nice because I couldn't do it as my back was still bad AND I didn't ask him to. Which just shows I must be doing something right. He is a very responsible young man. Not every child should be labelled as irresponsible. My son knows they are living creatures with thoughts and feelings and he loves all 5 of them dearly.

You sound like your raising him to be a brilliant animal lover! Good job and also good on him for being so responsible!
Hopefully the future will be full of these types of children

 

[Betsy]

You sound like your raising him to be a brilliant animal lover! Good job and also good on him for being so responsible!
Hopefully the future will be full of these types of children

Thanks I can but try!

 

[rome_italy]

Maybe I was just a different child, but from the day i got my Guinea Pigs and Hamsters I made sure to feed them daily, change their water, they had floor time every day, I cleaned them out regularly.
And I took my Pets very seriously from a young age,
Now I had a friend as a child whose Rabbit got fly strike because she didn't clean it out for months and months it turned out, I remember being horrified, and her mum didn't care either, watched it all happen without interfering.

Now my question is why do some children like me and I guess others aswell care so well for our animals and others like my friend and ones we all know about just get bored?

How as a parent do you know you child really wants a pet? ? And is ready for that responsibility?

I think a lot about how I'm going to introduce my children to small animals so they really approciate that they're actual living creatures not play things.

I also used to take a great care of my Nan's cats when I was a child and used to spend three summer months with her, but nobody told me that I was responsible of them. My cousin took care of his little brother, he used to do really a lot, but I don't think that his parents considered him responsible of anything important of course. As a parent I say (but this is only my way of being) that my children will have their responsability when it is their time. In the meanwhile they can take care of the piggies, of the family, they can have their own credit card, etc; but they will never be asked of caring for a life or of taking important decisions. Now it is time they think of studying and doing other things, learning what is good and what is wrong and also how to care of a pet or a child or an elderly nan from us adults.
As an adult and a parent I would never give them a life in hands as an experiment without being sure that I can take a glance.

In my opinion a pet is a family member and I honestly did not ask my first daughter whether or not she wanted a little sister when we decided to have a second baby... the same is for the pets. Here nobody uses a pet with the purpose of educating children, hence I cannot even imagine anything like that. There are families who take a dog or a kitten because the child wants to. But I see only adults walking dogs at the park... only adults at the vet... only adults paying bills, and unfortunately only adults abandoning the pets on the road before the holidays...

For replying your question: children learn from parents... and have also their DNA. You children will be as gentle as you are... there is no doubt, believe me! That boy with the ill rabbit had a mother like him, who simply did not interfere and had already taught him that a pet is "only" a pet...

 

[Misty]

I guess my parents take me as responsible because I researched the pet i wanted for hours if I put the hours i spend researching into days it would have been about a month in total.
And also the fact that I'm a minor ( I'm not allowed to say my exact age) but since I've been 12 I've cooked meals for 5 people, helped my little brother with his homework ECT ect... Now that's what i class as responsible but my 20 year old brother can't cook....
And I agree with rome_Italy there are kids i know that think pets are just pets and aren't living things with hearts and love.

 

[Wiebke]

of course I agree with you, but as I have told you before I look at things in a "practical" way and, about the strange request of a cheaper piggie in Canada, I was only asking myself if the discount was asked for other reasons... Nowadays people send short messages on fb in a hurry using three words badly written.
For replying to your lines: here also castrations are expensive, I am not sure of the exact cost, but I think it is never less than 150€. 80€ covered only a part of Osvaldo's bill and I would have paid more.
I am not well informed about the italian rescues, but what I know for sure is that there is an official and quite big group (AAE cavie), it is well visible online, they have volunteers in different cities, but they also live with private donations and help other rescues only sharing some little things; nothing special. Then there are 2-3 little rescues, run by honest volunteer people.
I see no cooperation among the rescues: for example, on AAE's fb page there was a notice about a certain piggie in Rome; under that notice there were two messages of two very interested guys both from the northern cities (Cremona and a town near Bologna); as the piggie was one and the requests were two I told my friend in Bologna about that guy... she has a lot of piggies to rehome and that guy was nearer Bologna than Rome! Is it dishonest to contact that guy saying "if you will not manage to adopt that piggie, I have some piggie, too"? and why did not AAE contact my friend? Consider that the guy said he could not travel...
Nobody of them are "pro-kill" and they are actually fervent and passionate animalists who are concentrated in all their big social battles and often "forget" the piggies (not updating webpages for example...).
But as you say, a sense of business is necessary and here such animalists don't often use the brain and make a lot of mistakes picturing a world which actually does not exist (here!). If you give me too many troubles, then I will go to a shop... A trouble is not the visit at home or the request of future pictures, but the long list of "threats" (they sound like threats).
Ironically here, if you want to save a piggie, you should go to the shop... and even in a hurry, because the shop sells only baby piggies! Then they will become food for snakes.The piggies living in foster homes (rescue) are well looked after, they will get the best cares from the best vets and will have a great life even when nobody will adopt them.

Anyway, although there are good possibilities that the canadian guy asking for the discount was an idiot, his request might have some explanation... I also asked for a little discount as I had to pay for the train (anyway the journey to Milan was a very good compromise; the line is high speed and maybe also Osvaldo found it exciting )

The person posting the question is - sorry - an idiot, as I have explained in my first post because looking after a guinea pig properly is where the real cost lies! If you are not willing to spend on getting a pet, how willing are going to be to look well after one?

If you keep buying shop babies to keep them from being used as snake food, all you do is encourage the shop to order more babies to be bred. Whereas if you assume that guinea pigs in rescues are safe, you make a fatal mistake - rescues can only take on so many piggies. If they do not rehome any rescued piggies, then they cannot save any more piggies once they are full. The piggies in rescue may be safe, but not the ones that should take their place. They are being failed by people like you who mistake a rescue for a sanctuary.

Cooperation between rescues relies entirely on them. Rescues in the UK and in English speaking countries are mostly run only by fundraising. We have a stronger tradition of this.
Cooperation is more developed in some countries than in others; it is also often a matter of distance in huge countries and one of communication, willingness and harmonising basic standards/requirements.
You have to also factor in that as there is no control to what standard a rescue is run to, some rescues that you may suggest, may actually not be a good standard. We have certainly got a number of bad ones; that is why have build up and keep updating our forum rescue locator.
However, I do not have the time to discuss the whole intricacy of rescue issues with you.

By the way, when I adopt from a rescue further afield, I always do my best to get as close as I can by public transport and have found them always very accommodating and friendly in that respect because I am making the effort. Sometimes a piggy can be brought closer to home by a friend or person that is travelling in the right direction anyway. I do however never expect a rescue having to organise transport to me through half the length of the country. Demanding that would be presumptious indeed; after all, it is not I who is doing a favour to the rescue, it is a favour from the rescue for trusting me in the first place!
PS: Train prices are much higher in the UK than in Italy, so it is not cheap operation.
PS2: Nye's private neutering op at a specialist vet a year ago has cost me £150 (170 euros) since I cannot claim a rescue discount. But I have treated Nye to the best operating vet in a wide area for a totally problem free and quick recovery without complications.

PS: I am at least as pragmatic as you are, but I have learned not make any judgements before I do not know the reasons behind them and before I have a good idea of conditions in another country. If use myself and my piggies as an example it is usually only to show that something can be done, like travelling further to see a good vet for example.

 

[Misty]

Agreed @Wiebke I would go to a rescue if i was allowed more piggies but the nearest to me is over 160 miles near Glasgow or Dundee. So Pets at home are my only choice up here but the p@h is very nice up here and they actually train their staff to look after pets. The person who sold me Chippy and Biscuit had guinea pigs and rabbits of her own and suggested the biggest hutch they had in store for us to house then in and then they have us (meaning me and mum) a questionnaire so we knew how to look after them! Someone knows what they are doing finally! Round of applause to pets at home for doing something right for once.

 

[Wiebke]

Agreed @Wiebke I would go to a rescue if i was allowed more piggies but the nearest to me is over 160 miles near Glasgow or Dundee. So Pets at home are my only choice up here but the p@h is very nice up here and they actually train their staff to look after pets. The person who sold me Chippy and Biscuit had guinea pigs and rabbits of her own and suggested the biggest hutch they had in store for us to house then in and then they have us (meaning me and mum) a questionnaire so we knew how to look after them! Someone knows what they are doing finally! Round of applause to pets at home for doing something right for once.

Quality of advice in pet shops depends hugely on the personnel; I have never disputed that some branches of p@h are of a good standard. I only wish that all of them were and that we could stop picking up the pieces on this forum!

There is certainly and very disconcertingly no consistency in quality of information or adequate overall training. Nor is there will to a country-wide company adherence to minimal welfare standards or the politic will to enforce minimal welfare standards by law in the UK. You are lucky to have access to a good quality branch! Especially in view of the deplorable lack of good or many rescues in Scotland! Many RSPCA branches do not have guinea pigs, either...

PS: I have just taken on two baby girls that are the result of a p@h pregnancy...

 

[anyar.dris]

I don't think we have ever asked for a discount from a rescue when adopting guinea pigs. We know how much they spend for them just for the piggies to be in top shape and condition before they are being adopted. Like what @Wiebke said, if you are not prepared to spend that amount of money they are requiring, why get a pet because in reality, it will be more expensive in the long run. We do ask some discounts from the vets though if the fees are so expensive.

When we adopted Prince the other day from RSPCA, we told them we would pay 2x the amount they require us and treat it as a donation. They refused a few times because they said we would have to travel quite far anyway (not really far from North Wales to Manchester) but we insisted. In the end they were very thankful.

 

[Misty]

Yes @Wiebke it's quite lucky. Biscuit did die of a suspected URI but that was no fault to the pet shop as he died a year after we brought him.

 

[rome_italy]

The person posting the question is - sorry - an idiot, as I have explained in my first post because looking after a guinea pig properly is where the real cost lies! If you are not willing to spend on getting a pet, how willing are going to be to look well after one?

If you keep buying shop babies to keep them from being used as snake food, all you do is encourage the shop to order more babies to be bred. Whereas if you assume that guinea pigs in rescues are safe, you make a fatal mistake - rescues can only take on so many piggies. If they do not rehome any rescued piggies, then they cannot save any more piggies once they are full. The piggies in rescue may be safe, but not the ones that should take their place. They are being failed by people like you who mistake a rescue for a sanctuary.

Cooperation between rescues relies entirely on them. Rescues in the UK and in English speaking countries are mostly run only by fundraising. We have a stronger tradition of this.
Cooperation is more developed in some countries than in others; it is also often a matter of distance in huge countries and one of communication, willingness and harmonising basic standards/requirements.
You have to also factor in that as there is no control to what standard a rescue is run to, some rescues that you may suggest, may actually not be a good standard. We have certainly got a number of bad ones; that is why have build up and keep updating our forum rescue locator.
However, I do not have the time to discuss the whole intricacy of rescue issues with you.

By the way, when I adopt from a rescue further afield, I always do my best to get as close as I can by public transport and have found them always very accommodating and friendly in that respect because I am making the effort. Sometimes a piggy can be brought closer to home by a friend or person that is travelling in the right direction anyway. I do however never expect a rescue having to organise transport to me through half the length of the country. Demanding that would be presumptious indeed; after all, it is not I who is doing a favour to the rescue, it is a favour from the rescue for trusting me in the first place!
PS: Train prices are much higher in the UK than in Italy, so it is not cheap operation.
PS2: Nye's private neutering op at a specialist vet a year ago has cost me £150 (170 euros) since I cannot claim a rescue discount. But I have treated Nye to the best operating vet in a wide area for a totally problem free and quick recovery without complications.

PS: I am at least as pragmatic as you are, but I have learned not make any judgements before I do not know the reasons behind them and before I have a good idea of conditions in another country. If use myself and my piggies as an example it is usually only to show that something can be done, like travelling further to see a good vet for example.

I know you have no time, but I always reply... although I would prefer doing that in italian...
I don't expect any reply, don't worry!
The reply to your first post was only about a doubt of a "genuine" request of that troll (I guess he is only a troll because some months ago I had found online the same identical request followed by the same identical stuffed piggie adviced! from an italian group of piggie lovers; hence online there are a lot of clowns)
Anyway, thinking of the real situation in MY country, and not knowing anything about Canada, I added that there is nothing wrong in offering an old or ill pet with some "incentive" or some little gift, such as some vet bills paid (a cat sanctuary nearby offers a lot of vet bills paid if you adopt one of their old cats, or they offer free sterilisations, another rescue for bunnies offer a lot of hay). I mean: nothing special, because a vet bill is nothing compared to what you are expected to pay; but it is only a kind help.
Always talking of Italy all the rescues here offer a service of "staffetta" (relay race) for moving piggies and binnies from a city to another one. My choice of going and fetching the piggie was seen as a WEIRD choice! But I wanted to have Osvaldo as soon as possible and I did not want to wait for such staffetta among many volunteers and people travelling for business, etc. Osvaldo and the sows would have been sent to Rome in 1-2 months, maybe less. But I was in a hurry for good reasons (Osvaldo needed a correct diet, he was living alone and seemed to be depressed, he was becoming fond of the foster volunteer, etc), hence I asked for going the on the 29th of november when the train fares were cheaper.
This service of "staffetta" does not exist in UK, I guess... but here without such "staffetta" you can say goodbye to all the rescues! If a rescue wants to survive they must offer such service. This is OUR reality.
hence another reality is considering that here people don't want to adopt piggies older than 1-2 years old. Wrong or right it does not matter. This is a true fact here (today).
Another simple consideration:
in my building there live 45 families. One has a cat, one has a dog inherited from the old mother, another lady takes care of two stray cats living here and then there is a crazy lady (me) with THREE pets. Also the vet was astonished!
In my parents' building there are 80 families, I know maybe 50-60 of them and NOBODY has pets. I have never seen anyone walking a dog there, there is a cat on the first floor for sure, maybe some other cat...
My daughter's classroom, 28 children: only my daughter has piggies and another one has a cat.
When I showed (with my greatest respect and admiration) my friends the picture of your setup and your wonderful cage, the nicest comment was "poor lady, she must feel so lonely...". Here there is a famous joke going around on fb, it says: "today you are 40 and still single, the government will assign you a cat". And as the vets are complaining with the governement about the high taxes we customers have to pay on each bill (24% VAT, plus other taxes), their greatest motivation is "old people sometimes need a pet as an antidepressive and an incentive for walking".
At my relatives' village, 900 inhabitants, only my depressed aunt has a dog and they still don't know I have become such a "poor" lady...
My husband is a vet (nothing about exotic pets and his job is in a different field): his rule had been for years and years NO PETS at home.
THIS is Italy and in such country rescues NEED to act differently from yours and to find good strategies if they want to survive.
(Also a lot of breeders are closing their business... and most of the shops don't sell pets).

An example of stupidity: a little cat sanctuary nearby (I must admit that all the rescues have a high standard here and are always run by honest people "peace&love") is looking for adoptants, but families must live in a flat without a balcony... idiots! In Rome all the flats have balconies! so, after one year of no adoptions they are requesting now "families with safe balconies, we will send a technician who will suggest you how to install special protections". Another nonsense, because buildings have OWN RULES and such protections are sometimes not admitted; some buildings cannot even have an air conditioning unit outside, or pots outside, or cages with birds, or laundry hung, etc.
feet on the ground, this is the main rule for running a business or saving pets.
bye