We lost one of our pigs. Advice needed please

[David&Carly]

Hi all, we're first-time posters here.

Unfortunately last night (around 2am) we had to say goodbye to our little Neville. He was around two years old, we got him and another boar from Pets at Home.

It all started on Sunday when we returned home and it was time to feed and weigh the pigs. Neville throughout his life slowly put on weight and was around 1430g at his last weigh-in on 18 June. On Sunday he weighed around 1230g. This was quite alarming but we thought that perhaps due to the heat he wasn't eating as much food and both piggies were generally a little more lethargic. We decided to keep an eye on Nev just in case.

On Monday he seemed fine though wasn't eating any hay at all. Pellets and veggies were still being eaten at a good rate.

Tuesday was when Nev took a turn for the worse. He wouldn't come out for food at all (even his favourite celery) and simply laid there when we took the platform out from over him. He usually tries to run away as he knows his Mum is going to scoop him up for cuddles. He was incredibly floppy and only just able to hold his head up. What was most noticeable was that his breathing seemed very forced. He looked to be using his stomach to force air out and his breathing was very shallow. We took him straight to Vets for Pets at Blackheath where he was put on oxygen and given an antibiotic via an injection. We were given Matacam to give him orally and some Critical Care.

That night at around midnight we syringe-fed probably a good 3-4ml of food and water whilst making sure he didn't inhale any of it. He also had his Matacam. He just laid on the sofa and we wrapped him up in his favourite blankets to keep him warm. His eyes appeared a little wider than before and we thought maybe he started to perk up but he still couldn't move. Whilst we didn't want to stress him out further we decided to take him to the emergency vet. His antibiotic didn't seem to be having any effect.

We got to the vets at around 12:50am and their prognosis wasn't good. Again he was put on oxygen and didn't show any signs of improvement. He had his temperature taken, his teeth checked and was palpated. All this happened and he just stayed absolutely still. It was like he was giving up.

Whilst in the oxygen chamber we were ultimately given the choice of keeping him there overnight where they would care for him, taking him home or having him put to sleep. We didn't want Neville to be in any more discomfort and the vet said his breathing was so shallow it was like he was slowly drowning. The cost of keeping him in overnight whilst very high didn't seem like a viable option given his condition and there was no guarantee he would improve. The vet game him less than 20% chance of surviving.

We were allowed to see him in his little oxygen chamber and he was just sprawled out on his stomach. His breathing was still very forced. We both said goodbye to him and then left. It was all very surreal and in typing this I am still very emotional about losing him.

We were shocked that how in just a few days his condition went from being a little popcorning piggy to being at the vet with only a few minutes to live. We asked ourselves on the drive home whether we did the right thing and we're still asking ourselves now. Maybe overnight the antibiotic would have kicked in but the vet really didn't give him much hope and we very much took our cue from her. I guess the aim of this post is to get some advice on a) if there was anything else we could have done for him and b) how do we go about introducing another boar to our other piggy? We don't want him to get lonely and when cleaning out the cage today he's been wandering around looking for his hutchmate

Apologies for the long post.

David & Carly

 

[Katiedid]

I am so sorry for your loss. I think when you have to make the decision as to whether its time you always wonder if it was the right decision. You have to however be kind on yourself. Someone on here once saif rather a moment too soon than a moment to late. With both of mine I left wondering whether they could have been lef longer. We knew one was terminally ill, so it was a case of would he have perked up to get a few more days, the other was suddenly ill and I questioned should I have fought more. But in the end I made the decisions as you did guided by a vet and doing what felt right at the time. So it was the right decision. Please be kind to yourself.

 

[David&Carly]

Thank you for your kind words.

We are concerned that there was some exposure to the other piggy whilst Neville was ill. If indeed it was pneumonia then is it worth giving Bertie a couple of doses of Baytril perhaps just to be sure? We have some left over that was prescribed to us on 4/4/18.

Thanks again.

 

[rhymer]

So sorry for you loss.
I know how you feel I lost my piggy Fred last month.
It's always a heart breaking decision to let a piggy go. Questioning yourself is part of the grieving process and it's always hard. I hate to see my piggies suffering and guided by my vet and my own gut feeling, I would rather let my piggy go an hour early than a day too late.
Please take comfort that you did the best for your little one and because you loved them you let them go.
There are some great links on the site about caring for a bereaved piggy and bonding
Looking After A Bereaved Guinea Pig
Introducing And Re-introducing Guinea Pigs
Hugs to you all.
Sleep tight little Neville.xx

 

[David&Carly]

Thank you rhymer for your support. I will check out those links.

David

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome

I am very sorry for your loss! The guilt and soul searching you are currently experiencing are totally normal for the onset of he grieving process. It is the other side of the love and responsibility you have towards your pets and he price we pay for being good owners. Sparing a very ill guinea pig that is unlikely to recover any unnecessary suffering is the most heart-breaking, but also the most loving last gift we can give them. Whenever I have to make the choice (the last time only ten days ago), I'd rather have the agony of my conscience myself than seeing my pet suffer!
Pets don't have a concept of longevity. They live every day as it comes. But they know happiness and suffering. I try to give my piggies as many happy todays as I can and spare them any unhappy ones if that is within my power. How long they live and what they ultimately die of is not in my control.

You are welcome to post a tribute to Neville in our Rainbow Bridge section if you wish to and whenever it feels right for you.

Sadly guinea pigs can go downhill in a matter of hours and not just days. it can be a frightening and devastating, especially the first time. Guinea pigs are prey animals, so very good at hiding problems. Because they are such small animals when the chips are down, you do not have the grace to wait as you would with a cat or a dog.
In Neville's case it was likely that he already had an underlying health issue which has come to the fore with the extra stress of the hot weather and tipped the balance for him; especially if he went into acute heart failure living with a genetic bomb in his body that could go off any time. Heat waves are always bad news for the ill, the frail, the very young, pregnant or older piggies. I currently have a frail piggy here struggling despite my best attempts to keep the house as cool as possible.
Here are tips of what you can do to mitigate the heat: Hot Weather Management And Heat Strokes

Please see a vet as soon as a guinea pig is starting to look off and is not eating fully - ideally as soon as a guinea pig is losing 50g quickly in a matter of a day or a very few days or 100g in a matter of several weeks or months.
Early Signs Of Illness
How Soon Should My Guinea Pig See A Vet? - A Quick Guide
List Of Life And Death Out-of-hours Emergencies

Please step in with support syringe feeding and watering asap; hay makes 80% or more of the daily food intake.
Switch fom the usual weekly weigh-in cum health check to weighing daily at the same time to monitor the food intake closely. Judging by eye can be very deceptive as guinea pigs continue to chew on crud in their mouths even when they are only nibbling at things. You are aiming at around 60 ml in 24 hours or as close as you can get, but in a very ill piggy that is already struggling to swallow, it can be impossible to do this; you may have to give 0.1 ml and give him time to swallow before giving more. Doing this around the clock and throughout the night is very draining.
If a piggy is quickly losing the ability to take food and becomes very weak and apathetic to swallow or struggles well in excess to its weakened state, then the body is generally no longer able to process any food and the closing down process (organ failure) has already started in my own experience.
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
First Aid Kit For Guinea Pigs

I hope that these guides help you to spot problems quicker and know what to do. We can't undo the past, but we can always change the future.

Here are our tips what you can do for a bereaved companion now and in the coming days and weeks. He will be well aware that Neville was very ill and already dying when you brought him to the vets; so he doesn't need to say goodbye. He knows!
See a vet as an emergency if he is not eating/drinking (acute pining, but can be illness) and step in with syringe feeding asap. Otherwise allow him to grieve. Bring him indoors and keep him in the coolest room of the house for the time being.
Looking After A Bereaved Guinea Pig


The safest way to find a companion of his own choice for a happy new bond is by dating at a good rescue. that way you can be sure that acceptance has happened. the alternative to boar dating would be neutering, so your boy could live with a sow or two after an obligatory 6 weeks safety wait. Again, a good rescue is the safest place to make sure that they like each other and avoid the risk of acquiring potentially pregnant sows. All our recommended rescues have a mandatory quarantine, pregnancy watch and vet care, regular handling and are only put up for adoption when they are fully healthy and ready to go to a good home. While anybody can call themselves a rescue or breeder without any licensing or checks, the listed places are the ones where we can guarantee that you are in experienced and safe hands.
Always contact as many rescues as you can get to, as it is very variable what and how many piggies they are have ready for adoption. Don't go by the website, either - there are usually more piggies in the pipeline.
Our forum complies with and often surpasses minimal welfare recommendations, so you should not have any problems with passing a home check if you are on that level!
Recommended Guinea Pig Rescues

If you prefer to get a new companion yourself and bond at home, then this here is the complete bonding guide: Bonding: Illustrated Dominance Behaviours And Dynamics

If you find that you struggle to cope with it all, please do not hesitate to use the free Blue Cross pet bereavement helpline. Talking is the best cure! All forum members that have done this have had a positive experience.
SupportLine - Problems: Pet Bereavement: Advice, support and information

 

[David&Carly]

Wiebke,

Thank you for your reply. Whilst all of these replies have been difficult to read I am positive they are helping us through this difficult time. They have all been very touching.

We will check out the Guinea Pig Rescues link for a new piggy friend for our Bertie. Although it's hard to tell with him I am sure he's missing his friend very much. He is eating at the moment and I'm sure will be fine. He has always been much hardier than Neville was.

When we brought the two of them home for the first time I never imagined we'd be saying goodbye to one of them. You expect them to last forever and whilst that is unreasonable on our part they bring so much happiness and laughter to your lives it is exceptionally hard to deal with.

Thank you for the advice and guidance. It is very much appreciated.

David & Carly

 

[Wiebke]

Wiebke,

Thank you for your reply. Whilst all of these replies have been difficult to read I am positive they are helping us through this difficult time. They have all been very touching.

We will check out the Guinea Pig Rescues link for a new piggy friend for our Bertie. Although it's hard to tell with him I am sure he's missing his friend very much. He is eating at the moment and I'm sure will be fine. He has always been much hardier than Neville was.

When we brought the two of them home for the first time I never imagined we'd be saying goodbye to one of them. You expect them to last forever and whilst that is unreasonable on our part they bring so much happiness and laughter to your lives it is exceptionally hard to deal with.

Thank you for the advice and guidance. It is very much appreciated.

David & Carly

Sudden deaths like Neville's always come as a massive shock, as I now from my own piggies that I have lost this way.
Take your own time to grieve; you have both the shock and the pain of Neville's loss to deal with and to gradually process. At the moment you are still in the 'numb' shock phase when the adrenaline is partially shielding you and acting a bit like an anaesthetic for the soul.
You have to brace yourself for feeling very blue and hungover when the adrenaline finally runs out and reality is hitting home. It is usually all the unthinking little things in your daily routine that catch you out unawares that are the toughest to deal with in the coming weeks because they rip open the healing wounds again and you just cannot brace for them.

There are sadly no shortcuts for the grieving process; you have to grieve as much as you have loved, and by all you have said, Neville has been a very much loved boy indeed! He was very lucky to have found you!

The terrifying speed of how quickly piggies can go downhill and the sheer physicality of the dying process when you desperately trying to preserve a life can be a very traumatic experience, especially the first time round. But please do not beat yourself up too badly; it would have been VERY much a toss up whether he'd make it even if you'd rushed him to the vets asap. It would have likely been just a longer, harder and more drawn-out and draining battle for his life.

All we can do (and are expected to do) is do our best and care well for our piggies while they are alive - you are doing that and have NOT failed Neville, or Alfie!

HUGS

PS: You'll know when Alfie is picking up his normal life again. That is the time he will be ready for a new friend.

 

[Hoppity.K]

So sorry for your loss, hugs x

 

[Merab]

I am so sorry for your loss.
It's hard when you have to make the decision to let a beloved pet go.
Grief will feel raw for a while and you should be gentle with yourselves as you grieve.
Bertie will grieve too in his own way and I hope that will be able to find him a suitable companion too.

 

[Claire W]

I am so sorry for your loss it’s so hard when we have to make the decision to let them go, many of us have been there ourselves but ultimately it’s the kindest decision to make.
(((Hugs)))

 

[YvonneBlue]

So sorry for your loss. RIP little piggy.
Your piggy slaves did their very best for you and helped you to place without pain and suffering.

 

[Flutterby]

I'm so sorry for your loss xx

 

[David&Carly]

Thank you all. The pain is currently still very raw and comes in waves. One minute we are remembering the good times (of which there were so many) and the next we feel like we have been robbed of our little pig. Time will heal.

We have been looking at a few places and putting our names on lists to find a suitable furry for Bertie.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you all. The pain is currently still very raw and comes in waves. One minute we are remembering the good times (of which there were so many) and the next we feel like we have been robbed of our little pig. Time will heal.

We have been looking at a few places and putting our names on lists to find a suitable furry for Bertie.

You are still at the start of it all. It takes time until you have digested it all and have come to terms with it.

I am still very much missing my feistly tiny lady Calli who I had to rush to the out-of-hours vets for pts in the small hours of the night when she very quickly developed advanced severe bloat in the evening in order to spare her dying in absolute agony. She was simply too old and frail to be able to fight it and would not have survived the night. It all happened in just 5 hours...

East Peckham GPR is the rescue that I would recommend most as they offer residential bonding. Alfie will come to the rescue for a week where he will meet up to three rescue boars. The full bonding happens at the rescue, so you come home with a boar bond that is as stable as any sow bond. It is the rolls royce version of boar pairing and well worth the wait! It takes on average 1-3 boys to find 'Mr. Right' and it is quite time consuming, so not many rescues can offer full boar dating, as it is also known. You just get to enjoy the result but without any of the normal headaches and anxieties that accompany pig bonding!

 

[Betsy]

Oh so sorry for your loss.

 

[David&Carly]

You are still at the start of it all. It takes time until you have digested it all and have come to terms with it.

I am still very much missing my feistly tiny lady Calli who I had to rush to the out-of-hours vets for pts in the small hours of the night when she very quickly developed advanced severe bloat in the evening in order to spare her dying in absolute agony. She was simply too old and frail to be able to fight it and would not have survived the night. It all happened in just 5 hours...

East Peckham GPR is the rescue that I would recommend most as they offer residential bonding. Alfie will come to the rescue for a week where he will meet up to three rescue boars. The full bonding happens at the rescue, so you come home with a boar bond that is as stable as any sow bond. It is the rolls royce version of boar pairing and well worth the wait! It takes on average 1-3 boys to find 'Mr. Right' and it is quite time consuming, so not many rescues can offer full boar dating, as it is also known. You just get to enjoy the result but without any of the normal headaches and anxieties that accompany pig bonding!

I'm sorry for your loss also. I'd like to think that both Neville and Calli are popcorning together somewhere lovely with as much hay and treats as a piggy could eat, without the health complications of course!

We will check out East Peckham GPR, thank you for recommending it. From your post it sounds as though we would leave Bertie there for the week? As much as it would pain us to do that I think he could really do with the interaction. He's starting to miss Nev now.

 

[Wiebke]

I'm sorry for your loss also. I'd like to think that both Neville and Calli are popcorning together somewhere lovely with as much hay and treats as a piggy could eat, without the health complications of course!

We will check out East Peckham GPR, thank you for recommending it. From your post it sounds as though we would leave Bertie there for the week? As much as it would pain us to do that I think he could really do with the interaction. He's starting to miss Nev now.

Thanks! Neville is welcome to join my steadily growing crowd of around 30 piggies at the Rainbow Bridge!
Sadly I have been there with dying piggies of my own in all kinds of situations plenty of times before and have at time been left literally shaking like a leaf...

Yes, you will have to leave Bertie at the rescue for a week or until he is stably bonded. Because only a few rescues offer full boar dating, there can be a waiting list but unless Bertie is going into acute pining (see the bereavement guide link in my first post for this), it is well worth the wait! Boars of all ages can be bonded with each other that way.

Watching a grieving piggy is never a joy and never becomes any easier.
I am currently there with Calli's companion, now twice widowed Tegan. Unlike Bertie, Tegan is a real nightmare when it comes to finding a new companion... It took her and Calli 10 months of living next to each other before they consented to sharing a cage! Old divas, both of them!

 

[David&Carly]

For the moment he seems OK. Perhaps a little quieter than usual but he's still squeaking when he hears the fridge opening and then trying to climb the bars when he knows you have some basil for him. I always got the impression from the two of them that whilst they didn't fight at all they were two very different pigs and enjoyed their space. Bert would rumble strut and try to assert himself and they very much kept themselves separate from one another. Only very rarely were they seen laying next to one another.

 

[Wiebke]

For the moment he seems OK. Perhaps a little quieter than usual but he's still squeaking when he hears the fridge opening and then trying to climb the bars when he knows you have some basil for him. I always got the impression from the two of them that whilst they didn't fight at all they were two very different pigs and enjoyed their space. Bert would rumble strut and try to assert himself and they very much kept themselves separate from one another. Only very rarely were they seen laying next to one another.

You can take a deep breath - that is normal grieving behaviour. As long as he still has got interest in his food supply, he'll keep!
It also sounds like a perfectly normal relationship to me. Cuddling up and being inseparable is not at all common but a constantly perpetuated misconception by all the videos you see online. The reality is different.
Some bonds are closer and others prefer more to do their own stuff - like in human marriages. It doesn't mean that the bond isn't every bit as solid like a marriage can be every bit as happy if you are not sitting on top of each other all the time.

 

[oofitsnaomi]

Hi all, we're first-time posters here.

Unfortunately last night (around 2am) we had to say goodbye to our little Neville. He was around two years old, we got him and another boar from Pets at Home.

It all started on Sunday when we returned home and it was time to feed and weigh the pigs. Neville throughout his life slowly put on weight and was around 1430g at his last weigh-in on 18 June. On Sunday he weighed around 1230g. This was quite alarming but we thought that perhaps due to the heat he wasn't eating as much food and both piggies were generally a little more lethargic. We decided to keep an eye on Nev just in case.

On Monday he seemed fine though wasn't eating any hay at all. Pellets and veggies were still being eaten at a good rate.

Tuesday was when Nev took a turn for the worse. He wouldn't come out for food at all (even his favourite celery) and simply laid there when we took the platform out from over him. He usually tries to run away as he knows his Mum is going to scoop him up for cuddles. He was incredibly floppy and only just able to hold his head up. What was most noticeable was that his breathing seemed very forced. He looked to be using his stomach to force air out and his breathing was very shallow. We took him straight to Vets for Pets at Blackheath where he was put on oxygen and given an antibiotic via an injection. We were given Matacam to give him orally and some Critical Care.

That night at around midnight we syringe-fed probably a good 3-4ml of food and water whilst making sure he didn't inhale any of it. He also had his Matacam. He just laid on the sofa and we wrapped him up in his favourite blankets to keep him warm. His eyes appeared a little wider than before and we thought maybe he started to perk up but he still couldn't move. Whilst we didn't want to stress him out further we decided to take him to the emergency vet. His antibiotic didn't seem to be having any effect.

We got to the vets at around 12:50am and their prognosis wasn't good. Again he was put on oxygen and didn't show any signs of improvement. He had his temperature taken, his teeth checked and was palpated. All this happened and he just stayed absolutely still. It was like he was giving up.

Whilst in the oxygen chamber we were ultimately given the choice of keeping him there overnight where they would care for him, taking him home or having him put to sleep. We didn't want Neville to be in any more discomfort and the vet said his breathing was so shallow it was like he was slowly drowning. The cost of keeping him in overnight whilst very high didn't seem like a viable option given his condition and there was no guarantee he would improve. The vet game him less than 20% chance of surviving.

We were allowed to see him in his little oxygen chamber and he was just sprawled out on his stomach. His breathing was still very forced. We both said goodbye to him and then left. It was all very surreal and in typing this I am still very emotional about losing him.

We were shocked that how in just a few days his condition went from being a little popcorning piggy to being at the vet with only a few minutes to live. We asked ourselves on the drive home whether we did the right thing and we're still asking ourselves now. Maybe overnight the antibiotic would have kicked in but the vet really didn't give him much hope and we very much took our cue from her. I guess the aim of this post is to get some advice on a) if there was anything else we could have done for him and b) how do we go about introducing another boar to our other piggy? We don't want him to get lonely and when cleaning out the cage today he's been wandering around looking for his hutchmate

Apologies for the long post.

David & Carly

View attachment 89826

I'm so sorry for your loss. I know how it feels like to lose a beloved pet, I had two cats who died of old age. Their names were Bonnie and Clyde. Clyde died when he was 16. It hit me really hard. He was an amazing cat. I cried and cried and cried. I had so many emotions. What actually helped, though, was remembering the good times. Clyde used to eat my hair when I was watching TV. Every Halloween, he followed my brother and I while we were trick or treating, he loved kids so much Thinking of those memories made me feel better, knowing that he had a good life with us and that he's free of pain. Bonnie died when she was 19, that was even harder. She was my best friend, the only friend I had at the time. But I did the same thing, I remembered when she stole my chicken roast while I was eating it I remembered all of our cuddles and games I used to play with her. I hung pictures of both of them up in my room so I'd always remember them. I know it's hard right now but just try to think about your favourite memories with him if it's not too hard for you. Again I'm so sorry for your loss <3

 

[David&Carly]

I'm so sorry for your loss. I know how it feels like to lose a beloved pet, I had two cats who died of old age. Their names were Bonnie and Clyde. Clyde died when he was 16. It hit me really hard. He was an amazing cat. I cried and cried and cried. I had so many emotions. What actually helped, though, was remembering the good times. Clyde used to eat my hair when I was watching TV. Every Halloween, he followed my brother and I while we were trick or treating, he loved kids so much Thinking of those memories made me feel better, knowing that he had a good life with us and that he's free of pain. Bonnie died when she was 19, that was even harder. She was my best friend, the only friend I had at the time. But I did the same thing, I remembered when she stole my chicken roast while I was eating it I remembered all of our cuddles and games I used to play with her. I hung pictures of both of them up in my room so I'd always remember them. I know it's hard right now but just try to think about your favourite memories with him if it's not too hard for you. Again I'm so sorry for your loss <3

Thank you for this and I'm sorry to hear about your two cats. May they rest and play in peace. It is lovely that you have pictures to remember them by. I am thinking about printing a 4x6 and framing it to remember him by. At the moment remembering the good times is quite difficult. I struggle with that along with the vet visit.

My favorite thing about Nev was that whenever he was given a piece of celery he used to always take it away and picnic. Little did he know that Bert didn't really like celery so there was no trouble of him having it stolen

 

[oofitsnaomi]

Thank you for this and I'm sorry to hear about your two cats. May they rest and play in peace. It is lovely that you have pictures to remember them by. I am thinking about printing a 4x6 and framing it to remember him by. At the moment remembering the good times is quite difficult. I struggle with that along with the vet visit.

My favorite thing about Nev was that whenever he was given a piece of celery he used to always take it away and picnic. Little did he know that Bert didn't really like celery so there was no trouble of him having it stolen

Thats adorable

 

[VickiA]

I’ve only just seen your thread. I’m so sorry for your loss. He sounds to have lived a life well loved by humans and with his own piggy companion. Not all piggies get this and such devoted treatment. It’s devastating to lose one under any circumstances but such a shock when they do go downhill so quickly. It is important to try to remember him at his glorious best and not as he was at the end. We are here to support you.

 

[David&Carly]

I’ve only just seen your thread. I’m so sorry for your loss. He sounds to have lived a life well loved by humans and with his own piggy companion. Not all piggies get this and such devoted treatment. It’s devastating to lose one under any circumstances but such a shock when they do go downhill so quickly. It is important to try to remember him at his glorious best and not as he was at the end. We are here to support you.

Thank you so much. You are so right. He was a very pampered pig. We say to ourselves "we hope he enjoyed his life with us" and there is no doubting he did. Yesterday and today so far have been better for both of us.

We will start the bonding process this weekend for Bertie and hopefully by next weekend he will have a new friend to eat hay with and poo everywhere.

Thank you all again for your kind words of support.

David & Carly.

 

[Merab]

Hope all goes well for Bertie and he takes to a new friend